Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

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RUNVS said:
I think "could the player have made a stronger effort to keep the ball in" should be the determining factor. I hate seeing players "fumble" the ball over the boundary when everyone knows if it was not near the boundary the player would have taken that ball cleanly.

Also I would be much harsher with deliberate behinds.
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I don't know how you can do it. A huge percentage of boundary throw ins happen after the player has made no intent and has actually chosen to take it out. Pick a ball up whether it is going out or not and just let the tackler take you over the line - or not pick it up - just pretend it's a fumble. Much the same. Now actually try to knock the ball back into play, and you're actually risking an insufficient intent decision if you don't keep it in play. Does my head in.
 
The entire "Home Ground" argument often misses the real defining points altogether regarding location and performance.
Without even going into the recognised extra travel kms, flights and recovery effects, every high level athlete and "expert" continually confirms, it's all about the routines, environment and support, both mental and physical at the highest levels.
The Melbourne fans claiming away games in Melbourne are equivalent to interstate away games are either imbeciles or disingenuous or both.
The real defining differences are being in your own bed, being with your own partner/family, having your friends and family around and at games etc. The mental and physical differences between that reality and being in a hotel room miles away from all of that every second week is absolutely incomparable to any so called "Away Game" that involves you retaining all of that support.
Anyone whom can't recognise and acknowledge that reality is a lying idiot.
 
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sr36 said:
I don't know how you can do it. A huge percentage of boundary throw ins happen after the player has made no intent and has actually chosen to take it out. Pick a ball up whether it is going out or not and just let the tackler take you over the line - or not pick it up - just pretend it's a fumble. Much the same. Now actually try to knock the ball back into play, and you're actually risking an insufficient intent decision if you don't keep it in play. Does my head in.
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Agreed. I think if a player simply runs the ball over the line that is insufficient intent as we all know at worst any player can handball the ball backwards to try and prevent it going out. If a player actively tries to stop the ball going over the line and in the process it goes over the line that should be okay.
 
Goosecat said:
The entire "Home Ground" argument often misses the real defining points altogether regarding location and performance.
Without even going into the recognised extra travel kms, flights and recovery effects, every high level athlete and "expert" continually confirms, it's all about the routines, environment and support, both mental and physical at the highest levels.
The Melbourne fans claiming away games in Melbourne are equivalent to interstate away games are either imbeciles or disingenuous or both.
The real defining differences are being in your own bed, being with your own partner/family, having your friends and family around and at games etc. The mental and physical differences between that reality and being in a hotel room miles away from all of that every second week is absolutely incomparable to any so called "Away Game" that involves you retaining all of that support.
Anyone whom can't recognise and acknowledge that reality is a lying idiot.
Click to expand...

Yep. People really underestimate the fact that players who play for Victorian clubs likely get to spend an extra 15 days a year back at home compared to non-Victorian players. That is a huge amount.

Just going off Pendlebury's career if he gets an extra 15 days a year back home compared to a non-Victorian player he would have had an extra 285 days home.

That is close to around 9 months.
 
Goosecat said:
The entire "Home Ground" argument often misses the real defining points altogether regarding location and performance.
Without even going into the recognised extra travel kms, flights and recovery effects, every high level athlete and "expert" continually confirms, it's all about the routines, environment and support, both mental and physical at the highest levels.
The Melbourne fans claiming away games in Melbourne are equivalent to interstate away games are either imbeciles or disingenuous or both.
The real defining differences are being in your own bed, being with your own partner/family, having your friends and family around and at games etc. The mental and physical differences between that reality and being in a hotel room miles away from all of that every second week is absolutely incomparable to any so called "Away Game" that involves you retaining all of that support.
Anyone whom can't recognise and acknowledge that reality is a lying idiot.
Click to expand...
There will never be a data set that confirms it because football lists are made of 44 individual moving parts, all of different ability, coaches of different skill and ability, recruitment, injuries, physio depts etc. If a player or team excels away from home, it doesn't mean the disadvantage doesn't exist, it just means they were good enough to overcome the disadvantage. At the end of the day, we can only take the word of those that play the game and pretty much to a person, they say travel is a disadvantage.
 
JackOutback said:
There will never be a data set that confirms it because football lists are made of 44 individual moving parts, all of different ability, coaches of different skill and ability, recruitment, injuries, physio depts etc. If a player or team excels away from home, it doesn't mean the disadvantage doesn't exist, it just means they were good enough to overcome the disadvantage. At the end of the day, we can only take the word of those that play the game and pretty much to a person, they say travel is a disadvantage.
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15 of the last 17 flags being to Victorian teams shows a strong trend though.

Could have easily been 17 of 17 too as Sydney and West Coast only won by the skin of our teeth.
 
RUNVS said:
Yep. People really underestimate the fact that players who play for Victorian clubs likely get to spend an extra 15 days a year back at home compared to non-Victorian players. That is a huge amount.

Just going off Pendlebury's career if he gets an extra 15 days a year back home compared to a non-Victorian player he would have had an extra 285 days home.

That is close to around 9 months.
Click to expand...

Where have you gotten 15 days from? It's 5 more travels compared with the few vic teams that don't sell home games. Most teams fly up the the day before and fly out after the game - about 36 hours out of the state - times 5. Occasionally teams won't be able to get a flight home and sometimes they or individuals will choose not to.

It might be different for WA teams with the longer flights, but I'd be shocked if we're talking about 3 days out of the state per interstate travel - unless it's by choice to extend.
 
sr36 said:
Where have you gotten 15 days from? It's 5 more travels compared with the few vic teams that don't sell home games. Most teams fly up the the day before and fly out after the game - about 36 hours out of the state - times 5. Occasionally teams won't be able to get a flight home and sometimes they or individuals will choose not to.

It might be different for WA teams with the longer flights, but I'd be shocked if we're talking about 3 days out of the state per interstate travel - unless it's by choice to extend.
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I am saying around 2 days for an interstate game, and Collingwood average lets say 7 less interstate games than a non-Victorian team. So 14 or 15 days less travel.

It is obviously not exact, but it does begin to show how much more time Pendlebury has been able to spend at home during his career than a player like Shannon Hurn did during his.
 

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RUNVS said:
I think "could the player have made a stronger effort to keep the ball in" should be the determining factor. I hate seeing players "fumble" the ball over the boundary when everyone knows if it was not near the boundary the player would have taken that ball cleanly.

Also I would be much harsher with deliberate behinds.
Click to expand...

Why? I am a point up and its deep in your forward line why should i not be able to bomb it 50m down the boundary line and get it out of my defensive area. If it rolls out then throw it in. Why is it people think I should have to help my opponent score by keeping it in play for them?
 
RUNVS said:
I am saying around 2 days for an interstate game, and Collingwood average lets say 7 less interstate games than a non-Victorian team. So 14 or 15 days less travel.

It is obviously not exact, but it does begin to show how much more time Pendlebury has been able to spend at home during his career than a player like Shannon Hurn did during his.
Click to expand...

It is a good point. No team will fly in and out same day so it is always 2 days, sometimes 3. People can quibble about hours, but its 2 days. Which is significant when the AFL is run on a, predominantly, 6 or 7 day schedule for most teams most weeks. Impacts rehab, recovery, coaching etc. I know the Lions have had a bad run of it this year because of the draw we were given, 2x WA, 3x SA etc.
 
greatwhiteshark said:
Why? I am a point up and its deep in your forward line why should i not be able to bomb it 50m down the boundary line and get it out of my defensive area. If it rolls out then throw it in. Why is it people think I should have to help my opponent score by keeping it in play for them?
Click to expand...
Exactly, you can punch it over from a contest but can't tap it over after it hits the ground.
 
Elixuh said:
It is a good point. No team will fly in and out same day so it is always 2 days, sometimes 3. People can quibble about hours, but its 2 days. Which is significant when the AFL is run on a, predominantly, 6 or 7 day schedule for most teams most weeks. Impacts rehab, recovery, coaching etc. I know the Lions have had a bad run of it this year because of the draw we were given, 2x WA, 3x SA etc.
Click to expand...

I know I am uncomfortable on a flight and I am only 175cm. I can't imagine how uncomfortable the flight is if you are 190cm or more.
 

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Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

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