Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[doppleganger]

4 of the top 6 are Collingwood supporters, desperate to deflect.

This is despite their own coach saying they had an unfair advantage earlier in the year and Longmire echoing this sentiment yesterday.

Collingwood supporters realise that compared to other Melbourne based clubs we are advantaged.

We are not advantaged compared to teams like Geelong and Port who enjoy a much bigger home ground advantage, and who also play "away" games at grounds they are very familiar with no travel load.

Results speak for themselves, the clubs who are dudded most by AFL House policy and fixturing are Melbourne based clubs who dont get 14 games at the G.

 

[SuperSub17]

Swans have 12 just this year.

No they don’t.

Anyone have 13?

This is now the fifth time.

 

[SuperSub17]

So you have proven just how little Victorian teams have to travel.

Yeah, it’s almost like when two teams are from one state, the game will be most likely played in that state.

Shocking, I know.

 

[Obeanie1]

Sydney play 12?

Are you sure about that?

Anyone who averages 13?

An interstate team which finals every year.

And Gather Round also adds an extra away game.

 

[Obeanie1]

Collingwood supporters realise that compared to other Melbourne based clubs we are advantaged.

We are not advantaged compared to teams like Geelong and Port who enjoy a much bigger home ground advantage, and who also play "away" games at grounds they are very familiar with no travel load.

Results speak for themselves, the clubs who are dudded most by AFL House policy and fixturing are Melbourne based clubs who dont get 14 games at the G.

Doesnt Collingwood play its away game v Geelong at the MCG? It's home ground.

With a home crowd.

 

[RUNVS]

Collingwood supporters realise that compared to other Melbourne based clubs we are advantaged.

We are not advantaged compared to teams like Geelong and Port who enjoy a much bigger home ground advantage, and who also play "away" games at grounds they are very familiar with no travel load.

Results speak for themselves, the clubs who are dudded most by AFL House policy and fixturing are Melbourne based clubs who dont get 14 games at the G.

Yes, Eddie likes using the line of "standing up for the little Melbourne clubs" too. It is all bullshit of course, he could not care less about St Kilda.

 

[doppleganger]

Yes, Eddie likes using the line of "standing up for the little Melbourne clubs" too. It is all bullshit of course, he could not care less about St Kilda.

I could not care less about any club apart from Collingwood.

What I do care about is moaning SA, WA and Sydney fans continually sooking that they have it harder compared to StK, North or WBulldogs.

It is absolute crap.

Sydney hot favs to play in another GF, they have been in the most GFs of any club in the 21st century.

Port looking good for another top4 finish, on the back of 13 games at the AO (11 with a proper advantage)

Meanwhile the Saints, Essendon and North battle away with no advantage - selling home games, and will again not play finals.

 

[doppleganger]

Doesnt Collingwood play its away game v Geelong at the MCG? It's home ground.

With a home crowd.

In 2024, Collingwood played our home game against Geelong at the G.

It was Geelong's 6th game at the G, Cats players are very familiar with the ground, 20k+ Cats fans are able to get along and cheer the players on, and players sleep in their own beds have no flights etc

Last week Freo got to play a home game against Geelong, it was Geelong's single game in WA, players had no ground familiariry, would have been lucky to be 1k Cat fans at the game, and Cats players sleep in hotels and had to fly.

It should be pretty obvious to all as to which team actual benefitted from a proper home ground advantage v Geelong in 2024.

 

[sr36]

So you have proven just how little Victorian teams have to travel.

Is it true that teams like Sydney get 10 games every year where they have a big travel and home ground advantage. That'd be fantastic. Pies have never gotten that sort of thing. We only get it 5 times.

When I was young, we used to get a big home ground advantage about 9 times a year - that was pretty cool - but not the travel advantage on top of that - 10 times a year - that's amazing.

 

[doppleganger]

Sydney play 11 home games at SCG (all against opponents who play just 1 game at the ground).

Sydney have to travel outside of Sydney 11 times (including the neutral game in Adelaide for gather round).

Hawthorn play only 9 MCG games (none against opponents who play just 1 game at the ground, the only non-vic teams they get are Syd and Adel)

Hawthorn have to travel outside of Melbourne 11 times (including the neutral game in Adelaide for gather round).

So despite leaving Melbourne the same number of times as Sydney, they only get 2 games at the MCG where they have any real ground advantage compared to 11 for Sydney.

But it is the entitled Sydney softies who cant see how good they have it!

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Someone's got to balance the bullshit and propaganda war being won by non-vic clubs which nuffies and the media are buying into.

Here's how ridiculous it is. Craig McRae comes out and says something that everyone knows and is well supported by data - home state advantage is real and includes umpiring. And the Nuffies are up in arms and come out and argue that he's talking rubbish and that it's only real for Vic teams ... no advantage in Non-Vic home games apparently...

But, but, but, we have 10 games where we're at a disadvantage - you only have 5. Yes but we only have 5 where we're at an advantage, you have 10 ...

But its not always supported by data.
Port has lost the free kick count at home against Vic clubs 4 times from 7 games this season.

Do you ever consider that if non Vic clubs, nuffies and media all agree and its only Vic club supporters that disagree and are the odd one out, that it has merit.

We cant all be wrong.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Let's be clear here and let's all be 100% honest with ourselves: is the AFL draw/fixtures 100% fair and even? No. That shouldn't be blamed on the clubs though. There is no doubt that Victorian clubs are favoured by the fixtures due to not travelling as much but where they lose out is that they don't get Home Ground Advantage as much as the non-Victorian teams. Where the non-Victorian teams lose out is the amount of travel they do but the big win for them is that they get Home Ground Advantage every second week. So really both Victorian teams and non Victorian teams are advantaged and disadvantaged throughout the season. The draw/fixture is as even as possible whilst taking into account all things considered, some of which i have mentioned here.

Yes, lets be 100% clear, as you say Vic clubs get a favourable draw.
As Fly said, they also get favourable umpiring in Victoria.
They've also won the free kick count over Port in Adelaide 4 times from 7 matchups this season.

Thats a considerable advantage both home and away against non Vic clubs.

Its at this point we come full circle and you mention us joining your league, yeah?

 

[sr36]

But its not always supported by data.
Port has lost the free kick count at home against Vic clubs 4 times from 7 games this season.

Do you ever consider that if non Vic clubs, nuffies and media all agree and its only Vic club supporters that disagree and are the odd one out, that it has merit.

We cant all be wrong.

I don't get it. Are you now saying that Non-Vic teams don't get an advantage when playing interstate teams at their home ground? No travel advantage. No home ground advantage. It's just a peculiarity that applies only once you cross in to Victoria? And strangely seems to also apply for both Vic teams when 2 Vic teams play each other at their home ground?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I don't get it. Are you now saying that Non-Vic teams don't get an advantage when playing interstate teams at their home ground? No travel advantage. No home ground advantage. It's just a peculiarity that applies only once you cross in to Victoria? And strangely seems to also apply when 2 Vic teams play each other at their home ground?

No, im saying we clearly dont get the most important advantage, the advantage that Fly cried about, the advantage that the voice of affirmation supposedly provides a home team, the all important advantage of who gets the adjudication advantage, the only advantage that can directly influence a passage of play and therefore a result.

The free kick advantage, commonly known as the rub of the green.

 

[Lunchtime]

Yes, lets be 100% clear, as you say Vic clubs get a favourable draw.
As Fly said, they also get favourable umpiring in Victoria.
They've also won the free kick count over Port in Adelaide 4 times from 7 matchups this season.

Thats a considerable advantage both home and away against non Vic clubs.

Its at this point we come full circle and you mention us joining your league, yeah?

Are you also prepared to say that non Victorian teams are also advantaged by getting Home Ground Advantage more do than Victorian teams?

As I said - both non Victorian teams and non Victorian teams are advantaged and disadvantaged (in different ways) throughout the year, but given all things/circumstances considered, the fixture is as even as possible.

 

[Obeanie1]

In 2024, Collingwood played our home game against Geelong at the G.

It was Geelong's 6th game at the G, Cats players are very familiar with the ground, 20k+ Cats fans are able to get along and cheer the players on, and players sleep in their own beds have no flights etc

Last week Freo got to play a home game against Geelong, it was Geelong's single game in WA, players had no ground familiariry, would have been lucky to be 1k Cat fans at the game, and Cats players sleep in hotels and had to fly.

It should be pretty obvious to all as to which team actual benefitted from a proper home ground advantage v Geelong in 2024.

I distinctly remember the Cats home game at the MCG. 3/4 of the crowd were Pies supporters. The noise of affirmation was loud and clear.

So a home town crowd and home pitch at an away game. Lucky for some.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Are you also prepared to say that non Victorian teams are also advantaged by getting Home Ground Advantage more do than Victorian teams?

As I said - both non Victorian teams and non Victorian teams are advantaged and disadvantaged (in different ways) throughout the year, but given all things/circumstances considered, the fixture is as even as possible.

Home ground advantage is of little value if you lose the on ground whistle advantage which playing infront of your voice of affirmation supposedly provides.

I mean, thats what Fly was getting at, at home you get the whistle, why arent we?
Or the Crows when they pump the Dogs.

Theres a trend here, Fly suggests Vic clubs get the rub at home but recent data says we dont.

 

[sr36]

No, im saying we clearly dont get the most important advantage, the advantage that Fly cried about, the advantage that the voice of affirmation supposedly provides a home team, the all important advantage of who gets the adjudication advantage, the only advantage that can directly influence a passage of play and therefore a result.

The free kick advantage, commonly known as the rub of the green.

You do. The long run data is unequivocal. Nearly every team is positive regarding frees at home and negative away.

You guys bat 10% over in FF vs FA at home. Away you're 10% down. Standard for the non-vic teams who have a big advantage at home and disadvantage away.

Check out the table. The Vic team team situation can't be read as easily as it goes back to 1964. But it's crystal clear for the Non-Vic teams. Advantage at home. Disadvantage away.

AFL Tables - Free Kicks

 

[Lunchtime]

Home ground advantage is of little value if you lose the on ground whistle advantage which playing infront of your voice of affirmation supposedly provides.

I mean, thats what Fly was getting at, at home you get the whistle, why arent we?
Or the Crows when they pump the Dogs.

Theres a trend here, Fly suggests Vic clubs get the rub at home but recent data says we dont.

I wasn't being specific about umpires. I was more trying to say that Home Gorund Advantage = playing in home ground....familiar with dimensions of ground/conditions, playing in front of home crowd etc.

 

[Underarm]

I think deep down most Victorians know there is a bias towards Victorian sides.

If they didn't I don't think they would spend nearly this much time trying to argue otherwise

View attachment 2077860

I mean there are so many more Victorians on this thread than non-Victorians, all outraged at there mere suggestion of a bias towards Victorians. Like a bunch of old men outraged that as a whole society perhaps benefits men over women.

Even for you this impressively dumb logic.

 

[Dangerousfield]

So where do you want Victorian teams to play when they play each other? On Mars??..

Mars, well Lunchie, how appropriate you mention that shytehole "stadium"

How about the big Vic clubs going and playing at Kardinia Park, Ballarat, Hobart, Launceston? You know who gets sent to those venues, WC, Freo, Crows, Port, Swans, GWS, Brisbane, Gold Coast. I don't give a *uck about crowds and revenue, the leg up the big Vic clubs get during the H&A season is gross, let alone having to play the GF at the MCG.

Right there is the BIG advantage for the big Vic clubs, before we get into never ending umpiring bias in favour of Vic sides.

 

[bungwahl]

It's baffling that people just make up whatever they want.

Collingwood v Richmond at the G, there is no advantage to either team.

Carlton v Essendon at the G, there is no advantage to either team.

It really isnt hard to follow

Both teams are familiar with the ground
Both teams have what 25k fans at the game

No advantage and no disadvantage, neutral games

Again, I have used all seasons from the 21st century.

The ladder shows that if you want to finisb top2, you dont want to be a Melbourne based team who play lots of neutral games.

I think you're arguing my point..

Pies vs Tigers at the G means no genuine home ground advantage for Pies AND no genuine away ground disadvantage for Tigers. As you say, neutral. (It's not really just MCG tenants either - all Melb based clubs have local supporter bases)

Interstate sides have 11 games with genuine home ground advantage, and 11 with genuine away ground disadvantage.

It's a zero sum game and it evens out.

What doesn't even out is the travel, media coverage, local talent, player retention, external career opportunities, and grand final location.

 

[RUNVS]

I think you're arguing my point..

Pies vs Tigers at the G means no genuine home ground advantage for Pies AND no genuine away ground disadvantage for Tigers. As you say, neutral. (It's not really just MCG tenants either - all Melb based clubs have local supporter bases)

Interstate sides have 11 games with genuine home ground advantage, and 11 with genuine away ground disadvantage.

It's a zero sum game and it evens out.

What doesn't even out is the travel, media coverage, local talent, player retention, external career opportunities, and grand final location.

and also who you pick in the draft. Plenty of non-Victorian clubs actively avoid high draft pick players from Vic Metro these days due to massive worries in regards to the go home factor.

 

[Robroy22]

Can't wait til we all just play once a year and then alternate the following year....

Grand Final at the G of course

 

[Obeanie1]

Home ground advantage is of little value if you lose the on ground whistle advantage which playing infront of your voice of affirmation supposedly provides.

I mean, thats what Fly was getting at, at home you get the whistle, why arent we?
Or the Crows when they pump the Dogs.

Theres a trend here, Fly suggests Vic clubs get the rub at home but recent data says we dont.

That because the Vic coaches stir the Vic media and the Vic media turn it into a farce.

No one mentioned noise of affirmation until the Saints coach had a massive whinge about Optus. Then they all piled on.

Every now and again a commentator will joke about the noise of affirmation for MCG tenants but it's funny when the rub goes their way.

When exactly the same thing happens outside of Melbourne there is a massive reaction and investigations. Umpires are then told to do better and get additional training when a Vic club feels hard done by.