Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[JayJ20]

Can't really use the stats from the 90s as the competition was only semi-professional back then.

Yes you can because the conversation is around home ground advantage.

Of the interstate sides that actually lost in the last 10-15 years, only Sydney (2014, 2016) and possibly Adelaide in 2017 can claim they were the better side. Even that, Hawthorn in 2012 were better than Sydney yet still lost so that's even. Bulldogs in 2016 wouldn't have won if they weren't given what is the single worst umpiring advantage ever seen in a final to complete a story. Dogs have been junk since. Adelaide have shown since 2017 that they were too mentally weak to win the premiership anyway while Richmond went on to win another premiership. Not surprising that Richmond beat Adelaide.

Context is very important.

 

[Dylan12]

The fact non-Victorian clubs are constantly labelled "interstate" clubs is proof enough of the bias at AFL HQ, forums and the general attitude of Victorians (which I'm one, despite never labelling non-Victorian clubs as "interstate" clubs) that such biases exist.

Just waiting for some moron to claim non-Victorian clubs are being favoured due to Melbourne clubs having to play more matches outside of Victoria.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The fact non-Victorian clubs are constantly labelled "interstate" clubs is proof enough of the bias at AFL HQ, forums and the general attitude of Victorians (which I'm one, despite never labelling non-Victorian clubs as "interstate" clubs) that such biases exist.

Just waiting for some moron to claim non-Victorian clubs are being favoured due to Melbourne clubs having to play more matches outside of Victoria.

you are an interstate club? its a fact?

settle down snow flake.

 

[Dylan12]

you are an interstate club? its a fact?

settle down snow flake.

Is snow flake the best you've got?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Is snow flake the best you've got?

your having a sook about being called an interstate club, when you are an fact a club that's interstate.

100% snowflake.

 

[Choogler]

Yes you can because the conversation is around home ground advantage.

Of the interstate sides that actually lost in the last 10-15 years, only Sydney (2014, 2016) and possibly Adelaide in 2017 can claim they were the better side. Even that, Hawthorn in 2012 were better than Sydney yet still lost so that's even. Bulldogs in 2016 wouldn't have won if they weren't given what is the single worst umpiring advantage ever seen in a final to complete a story. Dogs have been junk since. Adelaide have shown since 2017 that they were too mentally weak to win the premiership anyway while Richmond went on to win another premiership. Not surprising that Richmond beat Adelaide.

Context is very important.

Great comment about the Bulldogs, except it wasn't just the GF it was the whole finals series (except where they were far too good for WCE at Subi) where the umps got on the feel good train and went along for the ride. The cynic in me says the AFL really wanted that result just like the Sydney result in 2005 when they changed the interpretations of the rules to ensure that Barry Hall played.
Anyway, I digress..... I strongly disagree that Hawthorn were the best side in 2015. Fremantle and WCE finished higher on the ladder and then WC belted Hawthorn in the first week of the finals at Subi. Since this is about home ground advantage, doesn't that have relevance because who's to say the result wouldn't have been the same had the Hawks had to play the GF at Subi rather than their home ground with 70-80% of the crowd support they ended up with at the MCG on GF day.
Also, in 2013, had Freo kicked accurately early on, and had Hawthorn not been the beneficiaries of 3 soft decisions resulting directly in goals, Hawthorn would have lost. BTW I don't like Freo and didn't mind that they lost but I do like to be objective.
The thing about home grounds is often not the ground itself rather the home town support that can inspire and lift teams and cause players to grow another leg. By always having the GF at the MCG the AFL is ensuring that Vic clubs will always have that advantage regardless of who the best team is. As we saw in 2016, and I believe 2013, it can also influence the umpiring.

 

[ziad]

I have lived extensively in Vic and NSW although being a West Aussie. The bias in some is more a state of mind, old school V the new world. We know where this ends.
Most in NSW dont care about such things.

 

[mightymouse75]

The fact non-Victorian clubs are constantly labelled "interstate" clubs is proof enough of the bias at AFL HQ, forums and the general attitude of Victorians (which I'm one, despite never labelling non-Victorian clubs as "interstate" clubs) that such biases exist.

Just waiting for some moron to claim non-Victorian clubs are being favoured due to Melbourne clubs having to play more matches outside of Victoria.

It.has been brought up before. Lol

 

[Daddoo]

What Ralph asks might literally be the most unprofessional and revealing sports comment/question I have ever heard. To suggest that the ones who vote on the AFL awards don’t watch all the games is very telling. True, Ralphy, is a flog but to insinuate that players on Vic teams get more press and favorable treatment is not a stretch.

I can’t even imagine this question coming up on an NFL, NBA, or MLB show. “Uhhh, so you think that Covid has given Giannis a chance at the MVP this year because the voters were able to actually watch all of the Milwaukee Bucks games when normally all they watch are the Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, and Knicks games?” I can’t even imagine what fans and media reactions would be if that was said... Its just par for course on FoxFooty.

People are going to respond by attacking Ralph’s character and reputation in an effort to discredit him and therefore what he is suggesting, but we all know there is some truth behind his question.

Freo95 (Freo95) Tweeted:
Dunstall & Kingy talk Caleb Serong for rising star freodockers #Foreverfreo https://t.co/g1eiCGGusQ


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Port Adel Proud]

What Ralph asks might literally be the most unprofessional and revealing sports comment/question I have ever heard. To suggest that the ones who vote on the AFL awards don’t watch all the games is very telling. True, Ralphy, is a flog but to insinuate that players on Vic teams get more press and favorable treatment is not a stretch.

I can’t even imagine this question coming up on an NFL, NBA, or MLB show. “Uhhh, so you think that Covid has given Giannis a chance at the MVP this year because the voters were able to actually watch all of the Milwaukee Bucks games when normally all they watch are the Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, and Knicks games?” I can’t even imagine what fans and media reactions would be if that was said... Its just par for course on FoxFooty.

People are going to respond by attacking Ralph’s character and reputation in an effort to discredit him and therefore what he is suggesting, but we all know there is some truth behind his question.

Freo95 (Freo95) Tweeted:
Dunstall & Kingy talk Caleb Serong for rising star freodockers #Foreverfreo https://t.co/g1eiCGGusQ


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

The MLB is a galaxy away from the pissantery of the AFL. That is your explanation.

 

[refresh]

you are an interstate club? its a fact?

settle down snow flake.

So is your club to me.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

So is your club to me.

yeah but the point is i don't care what you think.

that's the problem here.

 

[Port Adel Proud]

yeah but the point is i don't care what you think.

that's the problem here.

Write posts to yourself then and stop wasting the poor fella's time.

 

[Freomaniac]

It is to an extent, but if the WA fans want to run the line that they "saved" a broke and desperate VFL with bankrupt clubs, then the logical answer is don't be surprised at what you signed into.

The reality is far more complex on both sides.



There has been due process. They've signed off an all AFL decisions.

Otherwise it truly is still the VFL with a few out-of-towners thrown into the mix.



Agree and is why I don't use it.



Agree on more teams. I've also said that instead of wanting to kill off small Vic clubs, folks who have a problem with the power in the comp lying with a few Victorian teams like Collingwood, Richmond and Essendon*, they should be building up the smaller clubs like the Dogs, North and St Kilda.

We cop it just as hard, if not worse, from the bias towards those clubs. And we're far more open to accomodating a truly national club and innovating.

We wanted to sell a game to Western Australi and the AFL said no. The smaller clubs have innovated for decades - Friday Night Footy, Good Friday, wanting Anzac Day to not be just about two clubs at one ground - but get stamped down.

If interstate clubs want change, an alliance there is the go, killing off the small Melbourne clubs will just entrench the power of the Big Clubs even further.

* This is one egregious example that I don't believe has got enough attention in this thread.

Non-Vic clubs have been savagely whacked over the years for various things - Cousins being de-registered, Adelaide draft penalties, Sydney trade ban - yet Essendon cheated the whole competition with a systemic doping program and the only penalty the AFL gave them was for "governance", not actual cheating.

A shining example of how a few big Vic clubs get the special treatment, not Vic clubs overall.

North saved the AFL from being broke lol

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Yes you can because the conversation is around home ground advantage.

Of the interstate sides that actually lost in the last 10-15 years, only Sydney (2014, 2016) and possibly Adelaide in 2017 can claim they were the better side. Even that, Hawthorn in 2012 were better than Sydney yet still lost so that's even. Bulldogs in 2016 wouldn't have won if they weren't given what is the single worst umpiring advantage ever seen in a final to complete a story. Dogs have been junk since. Adelaide have shown since 2017 that they were too mentally weak to win the premiership anyway while Richmond went on to win another premiership. Not surprising that Richmond beat Adelaide.

Context is very important.

If junk is making a grand final, then I will take it. How’s Essington going, won any finals lately?

 

[Freomaniac]

Since 1991, the record is:
9 wins interstate
8 wins Victorians

Not that compelling.

What about since 2007 onwards?

 

[JayJ20]

If junk is making a grand final, then I will take it. How’s Essington going, won any finals lately?

You do realise you’re quoting a post from 2020, which was before Dogs made the grand final?

And to answer the question, yes Essendon have been bad for 18 years.

 

[JayJ20]

What about since 2007 onwards?

Since then, Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond dominated the competition.

Port in 2007, Fremantle in 2013, Sydney in 2014, West Coast in 2015 and GWS in 2019 weren’t better than the teams they lost to. Brisbane and Port Adelaide the last couple of years and Fremantle in 2015 are proof that venue isn’t going to make someone win. We had a whole season in Queensland, SA and WA in 2020 and still two Victorian teams made the grand final.

The only team that could probably lay a claim to being disadvantaged is Sydney in 2016 and that’s because of umpiring and not the venue. Adelaide in 2017 is another that could have, but Richmond have since proven to be far superior than them so it isn’t surprising in hindsight.

 

[Grin]

This debate's been done and dusted. Geelong and the other non Melbourne based clubs have a significant statistical advantage. It's pretty obvious why they would. Their home ground advantage outweighs any theoretical disadvantage of travel.

If the non-Melbourne based clubs want to take the position that, despite the advantages they already have over Melbourne based clubs, they are entitled to more, otherwise it's unbearably unfair and 'VICBias', then that's a different argument and should not come under the heading "Genuine Discussion".

 

[CrowToon]

Non-Vic teams make up 44% of the competition yet only occupy 37.5% of the top 8 spots therefore are totally under-represented in the top class of AFL footy relative to number of clubs.

If misleading stats are good enough for social justice warriors it's good enough for the chip on my shoulder.

I expect the AFL to address this inequality by instructing umpires to start delivering lopsided free kick counts to the home interstate teams.

 

[windyhill]

Always amusing when someone comes out with the “ ahhh more vicco bias” line.

 

[Lsta062]

Non-Vic teams make up 44% of the competition yet only occupy 37.5% of the top 8 spots therefore are totally under-represented in the top class of AFL footy relative to number of clubs.

If misleading stats are good enough for social justice warriors it's good enough for the chip on my shoulder.

I expect the AFL to address this inequality by instructing umpires to start delivering lopsided free kick counts to the home interstate teams.

A Crows fan talking about lopsided free kicks at home??? Whether it was a joke or not, they’re already implementing that with Adelaide.

32-16 against Fremantle
28-23 against Port Adelaide
33-13 against Richmond
20-17 against GWS
28-22 against Brisbane
31-20 against St Kilda
24-23 against West Coast

Your team hasn’t lost a free kick count at home yet with Victorian sides not even going within a differential of 10.

 

[kranky al]

Since then, Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond dominated the competition.

Port in 2007, Fremantle in 2013, Sydney in 2014, West Coast in 2015 and GWS in 2019 weren’t better than the teams they lost to. Brisbane and Port Adelaide the last couple of years and Fremantle in 2015 are proof that venue isn’t going to make someone win. We had a whole season in Queensland, SA and WA in 2020 and still two Victorian teams made the grand final.

The only team that could probably lay a claim to being disadvantaged is Sydney in 2016 and that’s because of umpiring and not the venue. Adelaide in 2017 is another that could have, but Richmond have since proven to be far superior than them so it isn’t surprising in hindsight.

Freo were awesome in 2013 - came out in that gf and in the first quarter were overawed.

After quarter time they got their shit together. Of course for hawthorn its their home ground they play all the time. A lot easier to be another day at the office.

Id love to see how many freo players had played 0,1 and 2 games at the mcg that year.

 

[RUNVS]

Would be nice if the commentators bothered to learn the names of the Swans players. Ben Reid

20

Ben Reid

Age

35

Ht

196cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.0

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.0

1star

apparently played really well for Sydney last night.

 

[CrowToon]

A Crows fan talking about lopsided free kicks at home??? Whether it was a joke or not, they’re already implementing that with Adelaide.

32-16 against Fremantle
28-23 against Port Adelaide
33-13 against Richmond
20-17 against GWS
28-22 against Brisbane
31-20 against St Kilda
24-23 against West Coast

Your team hasn’t lost a free kick count at home yet with Victorian sides not even going within a differential of 10.

It's almost like that was the joke.