Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[greatwhiteshark]

It is watered down to be worth less than a goal.

And is the trade off for trying to maximise attendance, the GF afterall is an event.

If we wanted fairness, just award the premiership to the team who finishes top in an even H&A season.

The hardest bit about winning a premiership is the journey and even qualifying and making the GF.

The difference is that it creates a perception that WA wowsers love repeating of "earnt" or "unearnt" finals based on H&A ranking.

H&A ranking is biased to favour teams with a HGA.

And our current finals structure ignores H&A ranking after week 1.

WC were not a stronger team than Hawthorn in 2015, they didnt "earn" a home GF. And they were belted by a ruthless, stacked champion team in a winner takes all GF.

I am still a believer that the best team will win the flag most years, but I also believe the best team can gave a bad day and that is more than likely going to be the away team.

 

[doppleganger]

I am still a believer that the best team will win the flag most years, but I also believe the best team can gave a bad day and that is more than likely going to be the away team.

Unless Collingwood is involved, then they are odds on to be the team that has a bad day.

The sad thing is that many of the WA n SA muppets will sit down and watch the GF looking for a dodgy free to Collingwood or something as inane as the camera showing more of Collingwood warming up as their "evidence" of the VICBias.

 

[Brasher]

Adelaide won 15 games, during H&A.

Melbourne gave Adelaide a touch up at the AO, but then didnt get to play the return game at the MCG, a ground Adelaide are obviously hopeless at.

Play that away game against Melbourne at the MCG instead of the NT, and Adelaide lose and then end up 4th after H&A.

They then dont end up embarassing themselves in a GF that they didnt deserve to play in.

There is no substance to your claim that Melbourne would have beat Adelaide had the game been at the MCG instead of the NT based on a result earlier. None.

Adelaide beat Richmond either side of the GF by a combined 120 points. If Melbourne would have won at the MCG instead of playing the NT (which is doubtful) that you claim, Richmond enjoyed a massive leg up on GF day. Richmond won that day for the same reason Adelaide beat Melbourne in the NT, they were better on the day.

You keep pushing this agenda of the the Melbourne clubs being disadvantaged by not enjoying a home ground advantage....well don't sell games then. Build your own fortress in suburban Melbourne then.

It's your only, at best, weak argument to counter the competition bias. But this ain't 1975. Melbourne home grounds are Docklands and the MCG and those have been around longer than the SA and WA teams have played at their current home grounds...surely the Melbourne teams could have established a home ground advantage by now?

And before you start on the playing co-tenant line, what you lose from a home ground advantage you gain as the "visiting team".

As stated before, I want the GF at the MCG, I also want to play Melbourne clubs in Melbourne for the spectacle not the win advantage.

You call 2017 undeserving for the Crows...that's an insult. Care to comment on how a club finished 15th in 2022 yet was fixtured to play the top 4, 7 times and then miss the finals because it hit the post?

Your HGA argument is yours to have but it is far from the only factor shaping the home and away ladder.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Unless Collingwood is involved, then they are odds on to be the team that has a bad day.

The sad thing is that many of the WA n SA muppets will sit down and watch the GF looking for a dodgy free to Collingwood or something as inane as the camera showing more of Collingwood warming up as their "evidence" of the VICBias.

Maybe mate but not me. The best team will win. I think that will get you guys.
The ones that try and make reasons or excuses so be it.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Unless Collingwood is involved, then they are odds on to be the team that has a bad day.

The sad thing is that many of the WA n SA muppets will sit down and watch the GF looking for a dodgy free to Collingwood or something as inane as the camera showing more of Collingwood warming up as their "evidence" of the VICBias.

Just so you know there is a vic bias and I accept that there is.

 

[doppleganger]

There is no substance to your claim that Melbourne would have beat Adelaide had the game been at the MCG instead of the NT based on a result earlier. None.

Adelaide were hopeless at the MCG, could only draw against my mob and we were ordinary, and fell over the line against a rabble in Carlton.

Having to play a game at that big bogey ground of the MCG against a good Melbourne team would have been too much for Adelaide.

Richmond won that day for the same reason Adelaide beat Melbourne in the NT, they were better on the day.

If you say so.

You keep pushing this agenda of the the Melbourne clubs being disadvantaged by not enjoying a home ground advantage....well don't sell games then.

We dont sell them, the AFL wont FIXture all our home games at the G.

Stadium contracts and all that.

Only certain special SA and WA teams get all their home games at their preferred home ground.

Their supporters think it is unfair that they dont also get to pick where their away games are played.

Build your own fortress in suburban Melbourne then.

Why dont Adelaide build their own 100k stadium in suburban Adelaide and they can host a GF.

It's your only, at best, weak argument to counter the competition bias. But this ain't 1975. Melbourne home grounds are Docklands and the MCG and those have been around longer than the SA and WA teams have played at their current home grounds...surely the Melbourne teams could have established a home ground advantage by now?

Yeah they have an advantage at their actual home ground.

The AFL wont FIXture Melbourne or Richmond ALL of their home games at home the MCG, hence off to Marvel or NT/QLD.

A hot tip, Melbourne's home ground is the MCG not Marvel or TIO stadium.

You call 2017 undeserving for the Crows...that's an insult.

What is insulting is muppets claiming Richmond were undeserving premiers.

Care to comment on how a club finished 15th in 2022 yet was fixtured to play the top 4, 7 times and then miss the finals because it hit the post?

Not sure what your point is?
When did people decide it was acceptable to handicap the H&A FIXture?

Do you think the botched goal umpire decision was more VICBias?

Sydney benefitted from the botched goal and the dodgy interchange decision against North, gifting them 2 wins and finals, but I guess that is more VICBias.

 

[doppleganger]

Just so you know there is a vic bias and I accept that there is.

Yes, BT knows more about Collingwood when commentating games...I accept it.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Yes, BT knows more about Collingwood when commentating games...I accept it.

Ok still in denial, that’s ok. Hope you have a terrific day on Sat.

 

[sr36]

Care to comment on how a club finished 15th in 2022 yet was fixtured to play the top 4, 7 times and then miss the finals because it hit the post?

a) the AFL don't wear your tin foil hat so they are unable to accurately predict the top 4 a year out
b) an umpire error that advantaged a NSW team

#tinfoilhat

The case for #VICBIAS is the GF venue, which happens to be the biggest most iconic ground in the country and may have helped one of the 11 Vic teams once win a flag and then a whole lot of whinging when something doesn't go your way.

Oh, but how about them not letting us blatantly rort the FA compensation system? That's vicbias isn't it?

 

[Brasher]

a) the AFL don't wear your tin foil hat so they are unable to accurately predict the top 4 a year out
b) an umpire error that advantaged a NSW team

#tinfoilhat

The case for #VICBIAS is the GF venue, which happens to be the biggest most iconic ground in the country and may have helped one of the 11 Vic teams once win a flag and then a whole lot of whinging when something doesn't go your way.

Oh, but how about them not letting us blatantly rort the FA compensation system? That's vicbias isn't it?

No, but way to miss the point.

Simply pointing out 2 factors that influence the standings more than some random game cherry picked to suit an agenda.

 

[Brasher]

Adelaide were hopeless at the MCG, could only draw against my mob and we were ordinary, and fell over the line against a rabble in Carlton.

Having to play a game at that big bogey ground of the MCG against a good Melbourne team would have been too much for Adelaide.

If you say so.

We dont sell them, the AFL wont FIXture all our home games at the G.

Stadium contracts and all that.

Only certain special SA and WA teams get all their home games at their preferred home ground.

Their supporters think it is unfair that they dont also get to pick where their away games are played.

Why dont Adelaide build their own 100k stadium in suburban Adelaide and they can host a GF.

Yeah they have an advantage at their actual home ground.

The AFL wont FIXture Melbourne or Richmond ALL of their home games at home the MCG, hence off to Marvel or NT/QLD.

A hot tip, Melbourne's home ground is the MCG not Marvel or TIO stadium.

What is insulting is muppets claiming Richmond were undeserving premiers.

Not sure what your point is?
When did people decide it was acceptable to handicap the H&A FIXture?

Do you think the botched goal umpire decision was more VICBias?

Sydney benefitted from the botched goal and the dodgy interchange decision against North, gifting them 2 wins and finals, but I guess that is more VICBias.

It's sort of cute how you go to pains to dissect other people's comments here.

Your whole argument rests on one game that you can't provide any solid evidence would turn out any different. You say so is your defense about the Richmond games, but, in your mind, Adelaide would turn a win into a loss at the MCG.

That MCG aura is something else.

Oh and on calling Richmond undeserving...read my post again.

 

[Tadpole]

I've said that we have an advantage. I've also said that it's massively overblown.

I'm a Vic who lives a km away from the Adelaide Oval. I'd love to see the scaffolding go up and them make the stadium big enough to justify the Granny. Port can't even sell out a home final at the current size of the ground, so I'd get a ticket no problem if it could hold 100,000. But the reality is even if the SA clubs wanted to do that to justify the biggest game of the year being played there, it'd take 30 years for it to pass govt planning approval and then be built.

You said it. The NIMBYs in the North Adelaide Residents Association would never allow such a thing to happen.

 

[kranky al]

NRL grand final is always in Sydney

You found one!! Yay.

However the Crown Jewels is soo. They play one at home each - and one at a neutral venue.

 

[doppleganger]

Your whole argument rests on one game that you can't provide any solid evidence would turn out any different.

One game?
Every season Melbourne based clubs are forced to lose home ground advantage by being FIXtured home games at random venues where they dont have an advantage.

This is an obvious advantage for teams like Adelaide who ALWAYS get all their home games at AO.

Why cant Adelaide be FIXtured a few home games at NT or even the MCG if it is so important to get exposure their? Because you realise giving up HGA isnt fair, so would never do it.

That MCG aura is something else.

Indeed, a ground is responsible for 60 point beltings appears to be what SA and WA fans believe.

Obviously more palatable than the other option, that their "higher ranked" team actually wasnt as strong as their GF opponent.

Oh and on calling Richmond undeserving...read my post again.

Not you specifically, but the loudest WA and SA sooks do this.

 

[Brasher]

One game?
Every season Melbourne based clubs are forced to lose home ground advantage by being FIXtured home games at random venues where they dont have an advantage.

This is an obvious advantage for teams like Adelaide who ALWAYS get all their home games at AO.

Why cant Adelaide be FIXtured a few home games at NT or even the MCG if it is so important to get exposure their? Because you realise giving up HGA isnt fair, so would never do it.

Indeed, a ground is responsible for 60 point beltings appears to be what SA and WA fans believe.

Obviously more palatable than the other option, that their "higher ranked" team actually wasnt as strong as their GF opponent.

Not you specifically, but the loudest WA and SA sooks do this.

We ain't ever going to agree. That's cool.

Ask any Crows fan, official or player and other than the local fans in NT, not one would ever pick playing in TIO over the MCG.

I can't speak for others on where the GF should be played but i don't want it anywhere other than the MCG. Winning one elsewhere wouldn't have the same feeling.

I'll go back to my original point from 1,000 pages ago...I want to see Adelaide play any club at their home ground. It is an entertainment business first of all.

 

[sr36]

Mate we all know a Vic team playing a non vic team at the G on GF day is an advantage to the VIC team, both crowd and home ground. You know this as well.
I have accepted it as it is what it is but you people that keep trying to deny it just look like idiots.
Cmon mate you are better than that.

I think in finals the crowd factor is less important as teams don't need that extra surge of adrenaline to motivate and clubs have gotten better at dealing with the negativity they get away from home. Ground shape is a big factor though. The Adelaide teams and Geelong are the most disadvantaged because the home grounds that they play on are long and narrow and need to be defended and attacked differently than the G. Brisbane and Sydney's shortness are a factor too.

If you want to reduce much of the advantage, unify ground shapes. Seems a better alternative than playing the GF at venues that only allow half as many fans to attend.

 

[kranky al]

I think in finals the crowd factor is less important as teams don't need that extra surge of adrenaline to motivate and clubs have gotten better at dealing with the negativity they get away from home. Ground shape is a big factor though. The Adelaide teams and Geelong are the most disadvantaged because the home grounds that they play on are long and narrow and need to be defended and attacked differently than the G. Brisbane and Sydney's shortness are a factor too.

If you want to reduce much of the advantage, unify ground shapes. Seems a better alternative than playing the GF at venues that only allow half as many fans to attend.

Orrrrr bring the ground in to mimic the nominal home teams ground as much as practicable

 

[doppleganger]

We ain't ever going to agree. That's cool.

Ask any Crows fan, official or player and other than the local fans in NT, not one would ever pick playing in TIO over the MCG.

You keep missing the point, it is an away game...why do you think a Crows fan, player or official should get a say in where their away games are played.

It is the Melbourne based team fans who lose out, the players who miss out on a game with home ground advantage.

How is that evidence of VICbias?

I can't speak for others on where the GF should be played but i don't want it anywhere other than the MCG. Winning one elsewhere wouldn't have the same feeling.

It aint meant to be just another H&A game.

100k+ crammed into the MCG to see two teams battle it out. That is the GF.

Imagine if in the old days the SANFL GF was at Unley Oval or Alberton, not how any Aussie Rules comp does it...it is always the showpiece event at the biggest stadium that works for the league.

In the AFL it is the MCG.

 

[sr36]

Orrrrr bring the ground in to mimic the nominal home teams ground as much as practicable

That's actually a really good idea. Although you'd need a bulldozer to lengthen it for a couple of the grounds.

 

[Brasher]

You keep missing the point, it is an away game...why do you think a Crows fan, player or official should get a say in where their away games are played.

It is the Melbourne based team fans who lose out, the players who miss out on a game with home ground advantage.

How is that evidence of VICbias?

The Crows have no more right to complain where away teams choose to play than those same teams disadvantaging their own fans or compromising their chances of winning by doing so. Doesn't mean anyone has to like it.

I'm not saying it's vicbias....its $$$$bias...but we at least agree everyone would prefer to play or be played at the opposition's real home ground.

I just want to see the Crows in Melb more than 3 times a year especially when we play Melb based clubs away at least 6 times a year. Let other clubs share that load. Selfish I know, but wanting to watch your team live is what it's about isn't it?

 

[kranky al]

Um... what?

Adelaide oval - the most equal flight time / drive time possible for every team.

Port will never make a gf with mr hinkey in charge [1] citation needed

[1] see port board

So really only one tenant.

 

[kranky al]

That's actually a really good idea. Although you'd need a bulldozer to lengthen it for a couple of the grounds.

Obvs you can’t change the length - but the width is changed for a variety of sports

 

[sr36]

Obvs you can’t change the length - but the width is changed for a variety of sports

Done. I'll let the new Gil know that's how we're going from now on. Keep the tradition and spectacle of a packed G but reduce home ground advantage. I'm assuming that he'll give us permanent tickets and flights over for negotiating the deal.

 

[kranky al]

You keep missing the point, it is an away game...why do you think a Crows fan, player or official should get a say in where their away games are played.

It is the Melbourne based team fans who lose out, the players who miss out on a game with home ground advantage.

Vic club : We choose to play elsewhere from the mcg

Also vic club : Oh noes we are missing out on playing the mcg


Interstate club : we are happy to play at the mcg

Vic club : YOU CANT TELL US WHERE WE PLAY OUR HOME GAMES

Interstate club : ok - but don’t whine about missing hga when you choose not to play at your home ground


Normal intellects : hmmm seems fair

Subnormal intellects : I look just like another person

 

[kranky al]

Done. I'll let the new Gil know that's how we're going from now on. Keep the tradition and spectacle of a packed G but reduce home ground advantage. I'm assuming that he'll give us permanent tickets and flights over for negotiating the deal.

The least he could do - id like the fancy seats with the champers and shizz