Which reinforces your point about them sticking to the opening up dates. If they don't most people are going to shrug their shoulders. All extending the dates would do is punish small business.
Victorian Covid Outbreak 2021
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Which reinforces your point about them sticking to the opening up dates. If they don't most people are going to shrug their shoulders. All extending the dates would do is punish small business.
I get it. It sucks.
But I'm not sure I agree with the premise that everyone needs to suffer in the meantime.
As long as vax'd people without symptoms, are mixing with other vax'd people without symptoms, then I don't see how that effects anybody?
I completely agree with this, BUT, as you can see, creating different rules around what vaccinated and unvaccinated people can do is creating huge consternation.
Absolutely. Which is why the government won't do it.
But I think it's also why they're allowing people to basically do whatever the **** they want, and also why I don't think the 'opening up' will be delayed.
As I said, IMO the only reason we're still in lockdown is to protect the unvax'd until they get their shots. Which is on track.
Also, last week, 40% of their positive cases were children under 11.
So although people love to use Israel as their example of 'SEE! LOOK AT ISRAEL! THE VAX DOESN'T WORK!!', the reality seems to be that it's working incredibly well.
The jump in cases is less about the vax waning really (although that is happening), and more about them opening up and sending kids to school again. Add to that, they make parents conduct home tests before school each day, which is flagging lots of cases that otherwise wouldn't have even been noticed.
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Creating rules where you are restricted if you have access to the vaccine and you make a free choice not to is one thing.
Creating rules where you are restricted for not being vaccinated even if you haven't been given a fair and equal opportunity is another thing entirely.
I can't blame them, there is a direct incentive (i.e. elections) for being conservative and populist.
Agree.
But as I said, being restricted when you're not at risk to yourself or anyone else is hard to justify also.
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its not if the people doing the restricting 'because you're not vaccinated' are the same ones that limited your access to the vaccine in the first place. Of all the crazy shit the antivaxxers spout, it being wrong for the government to restrict movement because you chose not to get the vaccine but then not giving you that choice is the only legitimate aspect. Think of it this way:
Children: can i go outside?
Parent: only if you wear these hats that i will give to you to protect you from the sun
Child 1: can i have a hat please
Parent: Yes
Child 2: can i have a hat please
Parent: Yes
Child 3: can i have a hat please
Parent: no
thats not fair. everyone must be given free and equal access under the law. that hasnt happened yet.
and just to clarify, im all for restrictions on the unvaccinated and mandatory vaccines. but it can't be done until equal and fair access has been given.
Was in St Kilda botanical gardens last weekend, packed with people drinking. Cops did a walk through, did nothing more. This has become one of those things like jaywalking, they don't care unless you are being obnoxious about it.
But 'opening up' isn't all about the individual and their rights.
It's about society opening up and functioning, so the economy can start rolling again. Businesses can open, people can work etc.
Even if some individuals can't participate in the short term, surely it's in everyone's benefit if society starts to open in the interim?
Yes it is annoying, but this window is because not everyone has had equal access to the vaccine. I can wait a few more weeks to be fair to da yoof. After that though, tough shit if you aren't vaccinated.
The economy is doing OK, retail and hospitality have been smashed but everything else is continuing, business is being conducted (people just working from home mostly). Obviously there is not much in the way of growth but unless you are in a few badly affected industries it is just an annoyance. Also people have been hoarding cash since there is nothing to spend it on (except paying too much for housing) so that will all start washing around as soon as there are things to go buy and do.
The longer term effect that is unknown is how much of an effect zero migration over the past couple of years has, since Victoria in particular is very dependent on migration for its usual growth.
That's clearly the government's approach.
But I don't see the restrictions as a punishment. It's a community health response. But if there's no health danger - then why are there restrictions?
I don't see the logic of applying a health response to vax'd people with no symptoms, mixing with other vax'd people with no symptoms.
FWIW, personally I don't really care. I just don't want to hold others back, because I can't participate myself. I don't think that's fair on them.
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you cant segregate a part of society like that based on them not making a choice you never gave them. limiting individuals rights through the pandemic was acceptable because it was an equally applied measure with some sensible exceptions. to now unequally release restrictions based on the need to comply with a requirement (ie getting the vaccine) when you havent given one group fair opportunity to comply is not acceptable. at that point, its much more than an argument about 'individuals and their rights' and whats good for society. it goes to the fundamental rights and equality.
besides, if that is your reasoning then we should have been excluding young people from the restrictions in the first place. yes its obviously a serious disease, but it is also true that younger people are at lesser risk. if the economy is that important, then young people could have been allowed to go around much more and keep businesses going.
as young people we have sacrificed a lot, our jobs, our education, our lives etc, in order to protect the most vulnerable during this pandemic, and for the most part we have done it willingly and with the acceptance that it's whats best for society. We have also been pushed to the back of the vaccine line from the very start, again happily accepting that situation to allow the most vulnerable get the vaccine. We then watch on as the boomers drag their heels and essentially be the 'i want that one' guy from little britain, and get told to go and get a vaccine not recommended for us so that the boomers can get the one they want, while being targeted with ads chastising us for not getting the vaccine the government hasnt even allowed us to access. If you then turn around and say 'thanks for letting us get the vaccine first, we are going to go out and start living again. sorry, you have to wait even though you've already waited so long, but we just cant wait another few weeks so that we can all go out together', then any semblance that old people and society in general gives a shit about young people will be well and truly gone. then again, we already know that noone over 50 gives a shit about those younger than them and their future, so that wont really change much.
and im fully vaxxed, so thats not me speaking for my own selfish benefit. again, keeping a section of society under restrictions because you havent even given them a chance to get the vaccine is fundamentally against the rights of equality at the heart of a democratic society. we've waited so long, you can hang on another couple weeks so that young people can be treated equally for once.
But previously, young people could give it to older people. And the older people weren't vax'd.
So it wasn't safe for society. There was a health impact.
What I was referring to, is vax'd people with no symptoms gathering with other vax'd people with no symptoms.
There's just no reason that that shouldn't happen right now.
It's always been about what's better for society as a whole. Not just a section of it.
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opening up early so that just the people who got put at the front of the vaccine queue is exactly looking after just a section of society. and once again surprise surprise, the young people are the section that gets to be trodden on and left out 'for the good of society'. i like how "we are all in it together" falls apart as soon as the massive leg up the older generations have been given gives them a glimpse of being able to jump ahead of the young people yet again and get their freedoms back early.
everyone being treated equally and fairly is best for society. you say its not about whats good for individuals, well then individuals can wait another 2-3 flipping weeks. idgaf about when they are ready to come out of lockdown, i care about when we are ready to come out of lockdown.
young people want to be treated equally and fairly. is that so much to ask?
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there is a single massive massive reason which i've repeated multiple times.
the basic underpinning of a democratic society, which is that everyone has equal rights.
There's lots of things that underpin a Democrat society that haven't applied over the past 18 months.
I've never demanded that other people can't work, just because I can't.
I don't want people to suffer the same as me unless they have to. Certainly don't want them to suffer just because I am.
- Banned
- #7,146
noone wants anyone else to suffer, but we all want and must be treated fairly as well. people go on about the mental toll of the lockdowns particularly on the young, you dont think thats going to be made worse when they see everyone else being let out and them still being locked at home just because their age put them at the back of the line?
like i said, i'm all for vaccine passports, locking out unvaccinated from places etc, but its not fair to start type of thing until everyone has actually had equal and fair access to the vaccine, especially since it was the government who made the regulations restricting access. after 18 months, people can wait another 2-3 weeks.
- Apr 23, 2016
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We've also seen what happens when you segregate the community, like with the suburb by suburb restrictions.
People living across the road from a different suburb that was free to do whatever the wanted, very quickly decided it wasn't fair.
We're a few weeks away from that point that Andrews said months ago 'when everyone who wants to be vaccinated, has had the chance to be vaccinated'. After this long, we might as well stay the course for another couple of weeks to get it to the target levels they're wanting to see.
It's almost like the people don't agree with the authoritarian measures they're placed under.
We live in a democracy, give power back to the people instead of the brainwashed few.
- Apr 23, 2016
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Aren’t the people brainwashed in your constructed reality?
