Victorians turn to soccer : Are they giving up on there AFL teams?

[vinnie]

So where does soccer dominate football in Australia?

Participation - soccer (Yes)

Peak body revenue- football (How does this make it popular? I'd argue for its money, it should be growing more than soccer, but it ain't)

Club revenue- football (once again, how does this relate to popularity. Are you going to include revenue for overseas clubs that have aussies playing, like liverpool? And you didn't include player revenue, for Australian soccer players like Lucas Neil? Want to include those?)

Spectators-football (how would you know? - that's my point) nobody's counted my attendance at soccer games. You can only assume more players at grass roots = more spectators. If you don't buy this logic, prove it.

Memberships-.football (Yes you are right)
Tv ratings-football (You including world cup, and all soccer games with Aust players overseas by overseas viewers, or are you just closing it off to Australia?)
Media coverage – football (Yes, ain't that ironic)

DO you think the trend is for AFL to grow as quickly as soccer in all those factors above?

 

[Ted Ed Fred]

Soccer has always been the number 1 participated sport. It is in America too, does that mean it's taking over from NFL and baseball as the no.1 sports there?

Mainly because it's the main football code played by girls, yet in terms of media coverage/ public interest women's soccer is a non-entity.

 

[vinnie]

Soccer has always been the number 1 participated sport. It is in America too, does that mean it's taking over from NFL and baseball as the no.1 sports there?

Mainly because it's the main football code played by girls, yet in terms of media coverage/ public interest women's soccer is a non-entity.

USA aren't playing in Asia. Who cares you say?

When the Urawa Reds come out to play Melb Victory in the middle of next year's afl season, do you honestly think there won't be any interest in the result. Urawa Reds are Japan's championship soccer team -0 they will play for the Asia Champions League title. Do you honestly think there won't be increased sponsorship dollars around this? DO you think Japan won't have an interest in the result? WHat in AFL would compare to this, on a GLOBAL scale?

ANd this does not include the Asia Cup nor the Olyroos in the Olympics. Get behind the team for f*cks sake.

 

[Astro_]

Soccer has the highest participation rates for under 14s. It also has the highest dropout rate for under 15s. (source ABC)

A crowd of 50,000 at the dome is great for soccer, however how many other A-league clubs are pulling big crowds???? None!

Week-in, week-out the two perth teams and Adelaide sell out their AFL games. Constant 40,000 - 50,000+ crowds in Melbourne for AFL.

Make soccer a winter sport and it would get smashed.

Go Victory!! Both codes can co-exist, they are not mutally exclusive.

 

[vinnie]

COnsider which A-league teams reported record crowds this year - Queensland, Adelaide, Central Coast, Melbourne. WHich AFL team reported a record crowd last year?

Yes, smaller base. WHat do you make of the trend though?

 

[Astro_]

COnsider which A-league teams reported record crowds this year - Queensland, Adelaide, Central Coast, Melbourne. WHich AFL team reported a record crowd last year?

Yes, smaller base. WHat do you make of the trend though?

you'd expect a club that has been in existance for 1 year to record higher crowds in its 2nd year as the sport is more and more exposed. It will be interesting in the next couple of years to see which clubs become stronger and which clubs continue to struggle.

 

[Ted Ed Fred]

USA aren't playing in Asia. Who cares you say?

When the Urawa Reds come out to play Melb Victory in the middle of next year's afl season, do you honestly think there won't be any interest in the result. Urawa Reds are Japan's championship soccer team -0 they will play for the Asia Champions League title. Do you honestly think there won't be increased sponsorship dollars around this? DO you think Japan won't have an interest in the result? WHat in AFL would compare to this, on a GLOBAL scale?

Nearly 90 000 attending the international rules match in Ireland last year.

Soccer is the most participated sport in America. They've had more world cup success than us. They've even hosted a world cup, yet no one in their right mind would claim it is even close to NFL.

 

[Impunity!]

USA aren't playing in Asia. Who cares you say?

When the Urawa Reds come out to play Melb Victory in the middle of next year's afl season, do you honestly think there won't be any interest in the result. Urawa Reds are Japan's championship soccer team -0 they will play for the Asia Champions League title. Do you honestly think there won't be increased sponsorship dollars around this? DO you think Japan won't have an interest in the result? WHat in AFL would compare to this, on a GLOBAL scale?

ANd this does not include the Asia Cup nor the Olyroos in the Olympics. Get behind the team for f*cks sake.

URAWA REDS! ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

 

[Bezukhov]

Nearly 90 000 attending the international rules match in Ireland last year.

Soccer is the most participated sport in America. They've had more world cup success than us. They've even hosted a world cup, yet no one in their right mind would claim it is even close to NFL.

82,127 according to Wikipedia.

 

[AndyD]

So where does soccer dominate football in Australia?

Participation - soccer (Yes)

Peak body revenue- football (How does this make it popular? I'd argue for its money, it should be growing more than soccer, but it ain't)

Club revenue- football (once again, how does this relate to popularity. Are you going to include revenue for overseas clubs that have aussies playing, like liverpool? And you didn't include player revenue, for Australian soccer players like Lucas Neil? Want to include those?)

Spectators-football (how would you know? - that's my point) nobody's counted my attendance at soccer games. You can only assume more players at grass roots = more spectators. If you don't buy this logic, prove it.

Memberships-.football (Yes you are right)
Tv ratings-football (You including world cup, and all soccer games with Aust players overseas by overseas viewers, or are you just closing it off to Australia?)
Media coverage – football (Yes, ain't that ironic)

DO you think the trend is for AFL to grow as quickly as soccer in all those factors above?

This is the most stupidist thing I have ever read.

Peak body revenue- football (How does this make it popular? I'd argue for its money, it should be growing more than soccer, but it ain't)

The AFL gains its revenue from 2 main areas, gate recipts & T.V rights.

Gate recipts: People walking through the gates and paying. I would say that the AFL wins in that.
T.V Revenue: companies pay huge amounts of money to broadcast the games because people watch them. Pretty sure $780 million over 5 years beats the A-Leauge revenue.

Club revenue- football (once again, how does this relate to popularity. Are you going to include revenue for overseas clubs that have aussies playing, like liverpool? And you didn't include player revenue, for Australian soccer players like Lucas Neil? Want to include those?)

Does the money Lucas Neil gets paid in Europe go back to an A-Leauge club or the SFA (Soccer Federation of Australia). Also clubs make a fair bit their money off memberships. You know the thing where people buy bulk seats, in either 11 or 17-18 game packages to actually be at the ground and watch the game.

Spectators-football (how would you know? - that's my point) nobody's counted my attendance at soccer games. You can only assume more players at grass roots = more spectators. If you don't buy this logic, prove it.

This is the most stupidist thing I have ever seen in my entire life. What do you mean nobody has coutned your attendance? I am pretty sure that either when you buy a ticket or scan your ticket to get into the ground your attendance has been counted. Just FYI they do not have people walking around the stadium with a little ticker to count heads.

Your claim that more players= more spectators is ridiculous as is your argument is that if you disagree you must prove it. You are the one bringing the stupid claim, therefore the burden lies on you to prove it. Do all males that happen to watch netball have to play netball before they are allowed to watch it. Do female footy supporters have to play football to support the game. I also like how you ignored the fact that Soccer is also the most highly participated sport for youths in the U.S. Nobody in their right mind has suggested that the NFL is about to be over-run by the MSL, however reading your posts I might even see you claim that.

Tv ratings-football (You including world cup, and all soccer games with Aust players overseas by overseas viewers, or are you just closing it off to Australia?)

Why do Soccer supporters always point to overseas to prove their dominance in Australia? Also, are the people in Europe watching a single Aussie player in a team like Lucas Neil or are the watching the A-Leauge?

Media coverage – football (Yes, ain't that ironic)

Vinnie the tool should run a media company and report wholly on what he wants to report on and nothing about what the masses want to hear when it comes to their sport. We should try and get The Age & The Herald Sun to rund 10 pages on Soccer and 1/2 page on football in the middle of May this year and let's see how well that goes down.

DO you think the trend is for AFL to grow as quickly as soccer in all those factors above?

Are you really trying to compare the VFL/SANFL/WAFL growth in their infancy in the late 1880's to the A-Leauge in its infancy in 2007? The AFLhas roughly a core base of about 6 Million people to walk through their gates each and every year. The futures is pretty sustainable so long as they don't massivly screw up i.e all 8 games on PTV, restraint of trade abolishing the draft & salary cap e.t.c. As far as the AFL is concrened their could be no more growth and they would be in an excellent position for at least the next 10-15 years .What is the size of the A-Leauges core base of people willing to go through year after year after year? What happense to the A-League in its 4th year is they have a scandal or the growth stops?

 

[From The Fence]

This whole Soccer V Footy debate and the general paranoia over the growth of soccer ignores the reason why footy is great in the first place, and always will remain great: the game.

Seriously, arguing that the AFL is so great because of the $780m, or that soccer is better because Harry Kewell gets paid the salary of an entire AFL team is ridiculous.


Anyway, I thought i might examine the impact of soccer on footy

Lets assume for a moment that the A-league completely takes-off.
What would be the impact on footy?

Played at different times of the year – So it would have virtually no impact on AFL attendances, at worst may knock off a few band-wagoners.

More raw athletes playing soccer when they used to play footy – No big deal really, I prefer watching skilful players rather than athletes, the skills required to play the two sports are very different, and the kids who are more suited to footy will always stick with it.

Corporate sponsorship and TV rights fees would be spread out further – less money the AFL and the clubs.

I think this is the big one that some fans are worried about, but I don’t think it’s that much of an issue. I mean, has footy really become better because of the influx of money into AFL coffers? I for one, don’t think it really has. Sure, the game has been made more professional but along with that, we’ve seen most kinds of physicality removed, the game homogenised, the rules constantly being changed, players becoming celebrities where most of whom wouldn’t dream of having a beer with fans in the social club, and the invent of that wonderful thing the flood. So, I don’t think that a bit less money in footy would hurt the game at all.

So in short, a successful A-league wouldn’t really have a negative impact on the AFL.

 

[vinnie]

Of course both football codes will survive and as a tigers/victory member I hope both do.

But its up to you if you want to be aware of what's ahead.

Victory will this year target 'dual memberships' with AFL teams so members can get their football fix all though the year at a discount. If you think footy members won't take this up then I think you are naive. It will take 2,000 members from each Victorian AFL team to take this up then Victory will have more members than any sporting team in the country. WOn't happen soon, but that's more likely to occur than not.

But I believe A-league soccer will be bigger than AFL in a few short years, b/c unlike AFL, its not just about the Australian market and this is what needs to be understood. The Asian Champions league is far more lucrative for Melb Victory, than the A-league. It doesn't really matter what happens in terms of A-league growth in Australia, so any comparisons need to take this into account. Melb Victory will have far more international spectators than any AFL team will hope to acheive. You can argue that this won't result in increased sponsorship all you like. Did you know that the biggest sporting sponsorships from Qantas and Nike are directed to the Socceroos, not any AFL team?

But I like your complacency. Yes, AFL is safe and it does not need to be concerned at all.

 

[Impunity!]

Did you know that the biggest sporting sponsorships from Qantas ... are directed to the Socceroos, not any AFL team?

I'd be very interested to see whether this is the case. I would wager a not insignificant amount on the fact that Qantas' biggest sponsorship in dollar value is given to the Qantas Wallabies.

A-League bigger than AFL in a "few short years"?! You must buy your fresh herbs from Mercedes Corby.

 

[vinnie]

******** this I'm going back to the Victory forum, tickets to the GF are nearly sold out - its gonna be huge!!!!!!!listen out for the supporter chants I'll be with the blue and white brigade.

I'll leave ytou with two questions I want you to think about and answer honestly.

Do you want soccer to succeed in this country?

Do you want Australia to do well in the soccer world cup?

 

[Impunity!]

******** this I'm going back to the Victory forum, tickets to the GF are nearly sold out - its gonna be huge!!!!!!!listen out for the supporter chants I'll be with the blue and white brigade.

I'll leave ytou with two questions I want you to think about and answer honestly.

Do you want soccer to succeed in this country?

Do you want Australia to do well in the soccer world cup?

Yes (though not at the expense of AFL or Super 14)
and
Yes

Your questions are off-topic though. Have fun at the GF.

 

[AndyD]

******** this I'm going back to the Victory forum, tickets to the GF are nearly sold out - its gonna be huge!!!!!!!listen out for the supporter chants I'll be with the blue and white brigade.

I'll leave ytou with two questions I want you to think about and answer honestly.

Do you want soccer to succeed in this country?

Do you want Australia to do well in the soccer world cup?

Don't let the door hit you on the a$s on the way out.

 

[From The Fence]

But I believe A-league soccer will be bigger than AFL in a few short years, b/c unlike AFL, its not just about the Australian market and this is what needs to be understood. The Asian Champions league is far more lucrative for Melb Victory, than the A-league. It doesn't really matter what happens in terms of A-league growth in Australia, so any comparisons need to take this into account. Melb Victory will have far more international spectators than any AFL team will hope to acheive. You can argue that this won't result in increased sponsorship all you like. Did you know that the biggest sporting sponsorships from Qantas and Nike are directed to the Socceroos, not any AFL team?

But I like your complacency. Yes, AFL is safe and it does not need to be concerned at all.

It's not a matter of complacency, it's simply that I don't care about how strong the AFL is in a financial sense.

Footy is not made better by money.

The A-league, however, with more money would be able to increase quality on the field, so I don't mind at all if soccer gets a bigger slice of the pie than it used to get.

 

[F-U]

Its okay to go to soccer games and watch them. Theres no problem. However when you use a soccer team as a cheap substitute due to your failing AFL teams lack of winning ability it becomes a issue with me. These people have given up on there teams. What are the players supposed to think.

With this losing mentality Victoria has along time of waiting till they ever win a flag.

 

[Rob]

But I believe A-league soccer will be bigger than AFL in a few short years, b/c unlike AFL, its not just about the Australian market and this is what needs to be understood.

Can't argue with that. And with a whopping 13,000 showing up to a preliminary final and with a TV audience in the thousands, it's clear that you're right on the money. It's clearly taking off.

Does anyone think this guy actually believes his own bullsh*t?

 

[mustapha]

Can't argue with that. And with a whopping 13,000 showing up to a preliminary final and with a TV audience in the thousands, it's clear that you're right on the money. It's clearly taking off.

Does anyone think this guy actually believes his own bullsh*t?

The game was played at Hindmarsh (capacity just under 16,000 I think). It is very rare for a ground to be completely full due to factors such as people thinking the game is a sellout etc. If the game was played at a bigger stadium more people would have turned up. For example, Collingwood and Essendon have not sold out Telstra Dome for several years when equivalent games at the MCG easily top the 60k mark.

Another example is the increase in Victory crowds this year. In round 2 Victory drew 39,000 to the Sydney game. The same game last year drew about 17,000 because it was played at Olympic Park. This was before Victory started dominating the league. More people turn up to watch a game in a bigger stadium with better facilities.

The A league grand final is completely sold out. People are scalping tickets for ridiculous prices but I would not be suprised if only a crowd of 54,000 people show up.

 

[vinnie]

Can't argue with that. And with a whopping 13,000 showing up to a preliminary final and with a TV audience in the thousands, it's clear that you're right on the money. It's clearly taking off.

Does anyone think this guy actually believes his own bullsh*t?

Your missing my point I'll try to explain again.

A-league will not overtake AFL in a few short years IN AUSTRALIA.

But soccer is different to footy. The A-league is not about just Australia. A-league teams compete in Asia. The Asian market is far more lucrative in terms of audience and potential sponsors than the Australian market.

So my point is the A-league will get bigger than AFL OUTSIDE Australia in a few short years.

When Sydney FC take on Japan's Urawa Reds, that game will be fed to potentially billions of Asians. I'll leave it to you to speculate what the longer term implications are for sponsorship of Australian companies for this Asian exposure, every year.

But if you wantr to confine your definition to just Australia, go ahead I welcome that. I think the AFL leadership would think otherwise.

 

[Impunity!]

When Sydney FC take on Japan's Urawa Reds, that game will be fed to potentially billions of Asians. I'll leave it to you to speculate what the longer term implications are for sponsorship of Australian companies for this Asian exposure, every year.

SYDNEY FC!

HONOURABLY SPONSORED BY

SENK YEW!

 

[Rob]

The game was played at Hindmarsh (capacity just under 16,000 I think). It is very rare for a ground to be completely full due to factors such as people thinking the game is a sellout etc. If the game was played at a bigger stadium more people would have turned up. For example, Collingwood and Essendon have not sold out Telstra Dome for several years when equivalent games at the MCG easily top the 60k mark.

Another example is the increase in Victory crowds this year. In round 2 Victory drew 39,000 to the Sydney game. The same game last year drew about 17,000 because it was played at Olympic Park. This was before Victory started dominating the league. More people turn up to watch a game in a bigger stadium with better facilities.

The A league grand final is completely sold out. People are scalping tickets for ridiculous prices but I would not be suprised if only a crowd of 54,000 people show up.

So your point is that it's going great guns in Melbourne but nowhere else. We agree on something.

 

[Smyth94]

Your missing my point I'll try to explain again.

A-league will not overtake AFL in a few short years IN AUSTRALIA.

But soccer is different to footy. The A-league is not about just Australia. A-league teams compete in Asia. The Asian market is far more lucrative in terms of audience and potential sponsors than the Australian market.

So my point is the A-league will get bigger than AFL OUTSIDE Australia in a few short years.

When Sydney FC take on Japan's Urawa Reds, that game will be fed to potentially billions of Asians. I'll leave it to you to speculate what the longer term implications are for sponsorship of Australian companies for this Asian exposure, every year.

But if you wantr to confine your definition to just Australia, go ahead I welcome that. I think the AFL leadership would think otherwise.

You really are idiotic, when we're talking about the global market regarding soccer and AFL, soccer has been established on the world stage for over a 100 years whilst the AFL has only now started to attract a small international following (mostly ex-pats), the AFL have put programs in place to increase popularity overseas but don't really count international attraction as one of it's KPI's. AFL is the Australian game buddy, whether you like it or not, it was made by Australians for Australians, therefore the AFL's focus is AUSTRALIA and not anywhere else. I'm fairly confiedent that in Australia the A-League will never over-take the AFL, besides I can guarantee you that most Victory members are AFL club members/supporters. Why do you troll our boards when you know in full that both codes can thrive and co-exist simultaneously?

 

[Copernicus]

Your missing my point I'll try to explain again.

A-league will not overtake AFL in a few short years IN AUSTRALIA.

But soccer is different to footy. The A-league is not about just Australia. A-league teams compete in Asia. The Asian market is far more lucrative in terms of audience and potential sponsors than the Australian market.

So my point is the A-league will get bigger than AFL OUTSIDE Australia in a few short years.

When Sydney FC take on Japan's Urawa Reds, that game will be fed to potentially billions of Asians. I'll leave it to you to speculate what the longer term implications are for sponsorship of Australian companies for this Asian exposure, every year.

But if you wantr to confine your definition to just Australia, go ahead I welcome that. I think the AFL leadership would think otherwise.

Well, frankly, who cares? That's hardly the point it seems like you were getting at.

Most people don't give a rats' how the AFL does outside the country. It's very healthy at the moment and a third-rate soccer league isn't going to challenge the AFL for supremacy for a very long time, if ever. There'd ned to be a lot of Brazilian migrants for that to happen.