WAR CRIMES - Afghanistan * Ben Roberts Smith files an appeal

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19 Nov 202011.13 AEDT

Brereton report finds alleged unlawful killing of 39 people.​

Justice Brereton considered in a detailed 57 allegations of incidents and issues.

Campbell says he found there to be “credible information to substantiate 23 incidents of alleged unlawful killing of 39 people by 25 Australian Special Forces personnel, predominantly from the Special Air Service Regiment”.

Link to Ben Roberts Smith defamation JUDGEMENT SUMMARY and FULL JUDGEMENT in pdf
 
Last edited:

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jason_recliner said:
Yeah, that's different but most of ours are newer money I think.
Click to expand...

Just to round off the discussion on this, Australia’s richest person, Gina Rinehart got a start from her Dad's (Lang Hancock) inheritance and businesses.

Whatever one think's of her politics and aspects of her family life, she appears to have made a lot of astute good business judgements throughout her career.

However, 'When she took charge of the company it was facing financial difficulties, but her astute business decisions and high-level deal-making have allowed it to grow to become the most successful private company in Australia’s history.'

thewest.com.au

Gina Rinehart named Western Australian of the Year

Australia’s top businesswoman Gina Rinehart has been named Western Australian of the Year in recognition of her generous philanthropy and unrivalled corporate success.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au
 
Some more details on yesterday's revelations in here about the PI spy bartender incident at BRS's home.

I wonder if this party is legally categorised as a work event, or just a private party that a boss invited his workers to attend after hours?

If you did this at any company, without it being sanctioned or done with a nod and a wink by your bosses, there would be instant dismissal if it became public.

I expect when Seven first found about this incident, BRS told them that the PI was just a doorman and had not been given instructions to listen in on conversations and report back to BRS, and that Seven Management/legal just chose to believe BRS, and probably didn't even ever get the PI's side of things until at the civil case this week.

'Ben Roberts-Smith defamation case resurfaces allegations he hired PI to ‘spy’ on Channel 7 colleagues​

Ben Roberts-Smith’s alleged bizarre behaviour during a Channel 7 party has resurfaced the day after he stepped down from his top job at the television network.

June 3, 2023 - 2:08PM
...
Mr Roberts-Smith hired a private investigator to pretend to be a bartender at a party in his house.

He then invited colleagues from the TV network and had the PI report back what they were saying about him as rumours swirled regarding news reports that he was a war criminal, the court was told.

During the course of the mammoth 110-day trial, the court heard from a private investigator, John McLeod, who claimed Roberts-Smith had hired him for a number of “odd jobs”.

One of those included being a “spy” at a party.

During the defamation trial last year, Mr McLeod took to the stand and said he had “pretended to be a bartender to listen to the conversations that were happening” at a party Mr Roberts-Smith was hosting.

He then had to “report back to Ben”. Most of the attendees at the party were journalists from Channel 7’s Queensland newsroom.

“That happened when he took over Channel 7 up in the Sunshine Coast, and he had the majority of staff turn up at his house. He wanted to know what they thought of him,” Mr McLeod told the court.

During the cross-examination, the barrister for Mr Roberts-Smith, Bruce McClintock, said the private eye was there “to be the doorman and check people going in, not to spy on the guests”.

“No. That’s not correct,” Mr McLeod responded.
...'
 
BFew said:
Some more details on yesterday's revelations in here about the PI spy bartender incident at BRS's home.

I wonder if this party is legally categorised as a work event, or just a private party that a boss invited his workers to attend after hours?

If you did this at any company, without it being sanctioned or done with a nod and a wink by your bosses, there would be instant dismissal if it became public.

I expect when Seven first found about this incident, BRS told them that the PI was just a doorman and had not been given instructions to listen in on conversations and report back to BRS, and that Seven Management/legal just chose to believe BRS, and probably didn't even ever get the PI's side of things until at the civil case this week.

'Ben Roberts-Smith defamation case resurfaces allegations he hired PI to ‘spy’ on Channel 7 colleagues​

Ben Roberts-Smith’s alleged bizarre behaviour during a Channel 7 party has resurfaced the day after he stepped down from his top job at the television network.

June 3, 2023 - 2:08PM
...
Mr Roberts-Smith hired a private investigator to pretend to be a bartender at a party in his house.

He then invited colleagues from the TV network and had the PI report back what they were saying about him as rumours swirled regarding news reports that he was a war criminal, the court was told.

During the course of the mammoth 110-day trial, the court heard from a private investigator, John McLeod, who claimed Roberts-Smith had hired him for a number of “odd jobs”.

One of those included being a “spy” at a party.

During the defamation trial last year, Mr McLeod took to the stand and said he had “pretended to be a bartender to listen to the conversations that were happening” at a party Mr Roberts-Smith was hosting.

He then had to “report back to Ben”. Most of the attendees at the party were journalists from Channel 7’s Queensland newsroom.

“That happened when he took over Channel 7 up in the Sunshine Coast, and he had the majority of staff turn up at his house. He wanted to know what they thought of him,” Mr McLeod told the court.

During the cross-examination, the barrister for Mr Roberts-Smith, Bruce McClintock, said the private eye was there “to be the doorman and check people going in, not to spy on the guests”.

“No. That’s not correct,” Mr McLeod responded.
...'
Click to expand...
Regardless of whether this is illegal or in bad taste, If I were in his shoes I probably would have done the same, as I am sure others have done so in the past.
 
www.theguardian.com

Ben Roberts-Smith has been dealt a crushing blow. The full fallout is yet to come

Australia’s most decorated living soldier has had his defamation case dismissed, but questions remain over his future
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
'There is significant speculation from sources – inside and out of his military circles – that the former SAS corporal may seek to work and live overseas in the wake of the court’s finding, given the damning judgment against him and its catastrophic impact on a reputation once unimpeachable in Australia.'

He won't have any problem finding employment and allies outside of Australia.
(providing he doesn't get charged, convicted and have to serve time first).

Before he can be charged for anything in Australia, I expect he'll head to a country that will make it difficult or impossible for him to get extradited back to Australia.

Are there any legal grounds to remove his passport when he returns to Australia from Bali (if he ever does return)?
 
Good coverage in this series of podcasts.

www.theguardian.com

Introducing Ben Roberts-Smith v the media

Australia’s most decorated living soldier, Ben Roberts-Smith, is suing three of the country’s most trusted newspapers for defamation over articles he says falsely accuse him of war crimes. Whatever the outcome, the ramifications will be immense for public interest journalism, Australia’s...
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
The Australian Federal Police have submitted a new brief of evidence to Commonwealth prosecutors over allegations Roberts-Smith intimidated witnesses.

Wow.

Disgraced war hero Ben Roberts-Smith waged an aggressive campaign to cover up his war crimes, invoking a special forces’ code of silence as well as smearing and threatening those he thought had revealed his misconduct.

Witnesses have told the federal police that Roberts-Smith used the same private eye (as infiltrated a function) to unwittingly post threatening letters to a third SAS soldier he suspected of breaking ranks, and he arranged for a fourth special forces soldier to be attacked in a national newspaper and to be raided by state police as the result of a false complaint.

www.smh.com.au

‘Stick to the code’: New tapes reveal Ben Roberts-Smith’s campaign to silence soldiers

Police have submitted fresh evidence against the now-disgraced war hero as a number of those closest to him have now provided proof of his attempts to cover up his murders in Afghanistan.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
 
There's a lot to unpack out of this and Kerry Stokes has a lot to answer for.

The rich and influential cheer squad who backed a war criminal​

In early November 2017, one of the most influential men in Australia’s military (Angus Campbell) was passed a sensitive document by a billionaire media mogul (Kerry Stokes). It was the start of a campaign.

It was just one of the attempts by Stokes, and those close to him, to build a campaign against those seeking to reveal the truth about Roberts-Smith’s actions in Afghanistan.

www.smh.com.au

The rich and influential cheer squad who backed a war criminal

The document in Kerry Stokes’ hand cast a shadow over Ben Roberts-Smith. Precisely what the media mogul hoped to achieve by approaching one of Australia’s most influential military men in 2017 is unclear, but it was the start of a campaign.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
 
So what really was behind Kerry Stokes support of BRS?

Did Kerry Stokes (born John Patrick Alford) ever train/apply to be in the SAS or ADF himself?

Or did Kerry Stokes possibly think that having someone as powerful and deemed too big to fail and Australia's biggest living war hero (BRS), as a CEO of one of his companies, like BRS was, meant that anyone that attacked his company, might be seen to be attacking Australia's biggest living war heros, and thus would back off, or think twice about proceeding.

Combined with people's fears of ex-SAS BRS in general (actual or perceived) who was trained to kill with his bare hands, and who would likely still have lots of dangerous and colourful contacts. And that this fear might have anyone attacking Stokes companies (or those he held significant or controlling shares in (including 'attacks' via legislation or regulation), think twice about doing so.

With BRS on their books and in their corner, was BRS seen as a positive for increasing brand value, and the general additional power and leverage (actual and perceived) he brought to the organisation. (including his other much more profitable non-media companies).

Cos from where we are now, whichever way this goes, BRS is probably a huge liability to Stokes and his organisations.
A brand and asset value destroyer.

And Seven's competitors are primed to now benefit from the opportunities that come from pissed off, concerned, wary, disappointed or shocked staff (including presenters, performers and artists), suppliers, partners, and entertainers/producers and production companies, who might now prefer to do business with anyone but Stokes organisation's, for him and his company having been seen or perceived to be seen to be harbouring, protecting and funding an alleged, bully, murderer, liar, psychopath, conman etc. (some of the various things (rightly or wrongly) that people might think of BRS)
 

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Satan said:
All the stuff the Age couldnt print is now being published
Click to expand...
With Oz SAS HQ on the Swannie beachfront, Perth WA, and BRS a Sandgroper from way back, if some of the West Australian based journos currently under the employ and associated BRS editorial/controlling shareholder(s)/senior exec policy restrictions of Mr Stokes Seven Media, potential defections of Seven media journos to their Nine, Murdoch or more Independent smaller media organisations/publishers, could see some more damaging things coming to light about this sorry BRS and wider SAS saga over the next few years or decades. Depending on how much more comes out anyway as a result of any further legal action.
 
BFew said:
60 minutes on BRS has just started AEST, approx. 14 minutes late on Watch Channel 9 Live TV: Stream Online | 9Now
Click to expand...
Yes Im certain it will be a responsible and balanced production.

All you clackers condeming a bloke who got out there and put himself in harms way, just as he was sanctioned and trained to do by our government. Who'd have thunk trained killers might do some bad stuff ey? Just like the ostriches who believe recreational drugs in sport is not widespread, there will be very few in a field of war who have not gone too far at one time or another. Most of us would have no clue how to deal with what they have in the situations they have.

I do not usually agree with how the armed forces are used but I will stand behind and up for our service people, whio actually leave the sanctity of their couches to do what they do. One day soon we may need them.

I for one will not join the mob, I'm not defending his actions (which are yet to be understood) if they have crossed a line but it is not for me to judge how people react in that sitation. If the shit ever hit the fan here Id hope BRS was in my neighbourhood.

Have you ever met people trained to kill other humans? They were created ane encouraged by our system, are exposed to untold horrors and it should be no suprise that many of them become damaged because of it.

Treating them as public entertainment fodder and political footballs to try and be the most pure makes me sick - and I am ashamed of anyone partaking in it.

Thankyou, all our service men and women, of all colours and creeds, past and present. Most of us dont know what we owe you.
 
bootrossbootross said:
All you clackers condeming a bloke who got out there and put himself in harms way, just as he was sanctioned and trained to do by our government. Who'd have thunk trained killers might do some bad stuff ey?
Click to expand...
Then why didn't he just admit he did the bad stuff.

Why did he have to lie about it for so long (and still does).
Why threaten others for telling the truth?

And why drag the honourable Mr Stokes and Seven media down with him.

What an arseh*le (BRS, not you).
 
bootrossbootross said:
All you clackers condeming a bloke who got out there and put himself in harms way, just as he was sanctioned and trained to do by our government. Who'd have thunk trained killers might do some bad stuff ey? Just like the ostriches who believe recreational drugs in sport is not widespread, there will be very few in a field of war who have not gone too far at one time or another. Most of us would have no clue how to deal with what they have in the situations they have.
Click to expand...

Yeah somewhat but it was his own squad who witnessed against and condemned him.

Post conflict, if BRS hadn't been set up as some kind of God who could do no wrong, this wouldn't be quite so painful and dealt with a bit differently.
 
bootrossbootross said:
Yes Im certain it will be a responsible and balanced production.

All you clackers condeming a bloke who got out there and put himself in harms way, just as he was sanctioned and trained to do by our government. Who'd have thunk trained killers might do some bad stuff ey? Just like the ostriches who believe recreational drugs in sport is not widespread, there will be very few in a field of war who have not gone too far at one time or another. Most of us would have no clue how to deal with what they have in the situations they have.

I do not usually agree with how the armed forces are used but I will stand behind and up for our service people, whio actually leave the sanctity of their couches to do what they do. One day soon we may need them.

I for one will not join the mob, I'm not defending his actions (which are yet to be understood) if they have crossed a line but it is not for me to judge how people react in that sitation. If the s**t ever hit the fan here Id hope BRS was in my neighbourhood.

Have you ever met people trained to kill other humans? They were created ane encouraged by our system, are exposed to untold horrors and it should be no suprise that many of them become damaged because of it.

Treating them as public entertainment fodder and political footballs to try and be the most pure makes me sick - and I am ashamed of anyone partaking in it.

Thankyou, all our service men and women, of all colours and creeds, past and present. Most of us dont know what we owe you.
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of what you say. Special forces are trained assassins who largely operate outside the laws of war, but killing children? Executing unarmed civilians? No, that's too far for me, it was evidently too far for the other trained assassins around him, and he should pay for those specific crimes IMO.
 
bootrossbootross said:
Yes Im certain it will be a responsible and balanced production.

All you clackers condeming a bloke who got out there and put himself in harms way, just as he was sanctioned and trained to do by our government. Who'd have thunk trained killers might do some bad stuff ey? Just like the ostriches who believe recreational drugs in sport is not widespread, there will be very few in a field of war who have not gone too far at one time or another. Most of us would have no clue how to deal with what they have in the situations they have.

I do not usually agree with how the armed forces are used but I will stand behind and up for our service people, whio actually leave the sanctity of their couches to do what they do. One day soon we may need them.

I for one will not join the mob, I'm not defending his actions (which are yet to be understood) if they have crossed a line but it is not for me to judge how people react in that sitation. If the s**t ever hit the fan here Id hope BRS was in my neighbourhood.

Have you ever met people trained to kill other humans? They were created ane encouraged by our system, are exposed to untold horrors and it should be no suprise that many of them become damaged because of it.

Treating them as public entertainment fodder and political footballs to try and be the most pure makes me sick - and I am ashamed of anyone partaking in it.

Thankyou, all our service men and women, of all colours and creeds, past and present. Most of us dont know what we owe you.
Click to expand...
You should be more ashamed of BRS actions in killing unarmed prisoners or non combatants. The guys got a f*cking screw loose, wearing a crusaders cross, he's a moron.
 
I strongly suspect Roberts Smith will be charged over this. McCloud, who sent the letters on Roberts Smith's instructions, and his wife both testified to Roberts Smith as the author and to his attempts to not leave any forensic evidence on them, which goes to an awareness he shouldn't have been sending them.

He has nowhere to go as a defense if he is charged. IMO.

In the full judgement, published today, Justice Anthony Besanko said the sending of the letters on Roberts instructions may constitute a criminal offence; either perverting the course of justice or using a postal service to menace, harass or cause offence.

"I am satisfied on the evidence that the applicant, through Mr McLeod, arranged for two threatening letters to be sent to Person 18."

www.abc.net.au

Disgraced war veteran may have committed criminal offence, judge finds

War veteran Ben Roberts-Smith may have committed a criminal offence by sending threatening letters to a former SAS colleague, a Federal Court judge finds.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
All 736 pages of the full judgement report on this defamation case.
Some blacked out sections/redactions observed in it.

'FEDERAL COURT OF AUSTRALIA
Roberts-Smith v Fairfax Media Publications Pty Limited (No 41) [2023] FCA 555
File numbers:
NSD 1485 of 2018
NSD 1486 of 2018
NSD 1487 of 2018
Judgment of: BESANKO J
Date of judgment: 1 June 2023'
 

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WAR CRIMES - Afghanistan * Ben Roberts Smith files an appeal

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