Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[ZEV]

I couldnt see any injuries when your feelings were hurt. But you expected us to believe you.

I’ve seen plenty of videos of Palestinian children blown up by IDF missiles and bombs.

It's very sad that you can't just admit, "yeah that ones fake."

 

[Jazny]

On October 7th we know ~ 1200 Israeli's were killed, a mix of civilian and non-civilian. Of which I believe 859 were civilians. So whilst it doesn't meet the 'at least 1,000' noncombatant civilians figure in that definition, it's certainly close enough that I'd be comfortable saying a Mass Killing occurred.

So weird you would use that random definition. It's not a legal definition or a definition with any authority. Is is arbitrary and comes from the Early Warning Project. Did you search for any definition that had the arbitrary 1000 deaths cut off so you could try and exclude October 7th and then try and look like your being good faith and generous by including Oct 7th anyway? I dont know why else you would have used that specific definition.

Also why would you not count the Israeli soldiers targeted on Oct 7th in the death toll? Every death on Oct 7th committed by Hamas would be classified as a war crime, including the military personnel.

The OHCHR report you linked does not document how many cases of "murder" the commission found against Israel. It isn't even a legal document, it's just a random report that is supposed to inform policy and potentially legal investigations. You can't just use that random reference that doesn't give specific evidence to say Israel has committed mass killing or murder.

We've got a figure of ~ 37,000 dead Palestinians in Gaza at the moment. We don't know the exact figure of civilian causalities, but even taking the most 'generous' figure provided by Israel we have far surpassed the 1,000 civilian deaths requirement, and we're still well within a 1 year period. I'd say this means we're comfortably able to make the claim that a Mass Killing has occured.

Again you are trying to claim that every civilian death in war is essentially "murder". Basically every country that has ever been to a major war is guilty of mass killing by your incorrect use of that definition. Read it again:

"1,000 noncombatant civilians targeted as part of a specific group". That's why the Early Warning Project doesn't list every war with 1000+ civilian casualties as cases of mass killing. It requires that they are targeted. October 7th is a clear case of a terrorist incident that indescriminately murdered civilians and non-legitimate Israeli military targets.

Israel's actions in the Israel-Hamas war have not been shown to deliberately target and kill civilians. Israel has to take every action to avoid civilian deaths which is very difficult in the kind of war they are fighting. If they wanted to target and kill civilians, the death toll would be enormous and the casualty ratio of civilians to combants would be so much higher than it is.

To be totally clear, I am not saying Israel is innocent of committing any war crime, but there is no evidence that I have seen that they are committing any reasonable definition of "mass murder". Hamas did though on October 7th. They legitimately went into Israel with no justification even under international law and murdered as many people as they could.

If Israel went into Gaza with the same intention to murder as many people as they could, the death toll would be in the millions by now.

 

[faible]

So weird you would use that random definition. It's not a legal definition or a definition with any authority. Is is arbitrary and comes from the Early Warning Project. Did you search for any definition that had the arbitrary 1000 deaths cut off so you could try and exclude October 7th and then try and look like your being good faith and generous by including Oct 7th anyway? I dont know why else you would have used that specific definition.

Also why would you not count the Israeli soldiers targeted on Oct 7th in the death toll? Every death on Oct 7th committed by Hamas would be classified as a war crime, including the military personnel.

The OHCHR report you linked does not document how many cases of "murder" the commission found against Israel. It isn't even a legal document, it's just a random report that is supposed to inform policy and potentially legal investigations. You can't just use that random reference that doesn't give specific evidence to say Israel has committed mass killing or murder.


Again you are trying to claim that every civilian death in war is essentially "murder". Basically every country that has ever been to a major war is guilty of mass killing by your incorrect use of that definition. Read it again:

"1,000 noncombatant civilians targeted as part of a specific group". That's why the Early Warning Project doesn't list every war with 1000+ civilian casualties as cases of mass killing. It requires that they are targeted. October 7th is a clear case of a terrorist incident that indescriminately murdered civilians and non-legitimate Israeli military targets.

Israel's actions in the Israel-Hamas war have not been shown to deliberately target and kill civilians. Israel has to take every action to avoid civilian deaths which is very difficult in the kind of war they are fighting. If they wanted to target and kill civilians, the death toll would be enormous and the casualty ratio of civilians to combants and women would be so much higher than it is.

To be totally clear, I am not saying Israel is innocent of committing any war crime, but there is no evidence that I have seen that they are committing any reasonable definition of "mass murder". Hamas did though on October 7th. They legitimately went into Israel with no justification even under international law and murdered as many people as they could.

If Israel went into Gaza with the same intention to murder as many people as they could, the death toll would be in the millions by now.

That's a lot of words to say you disagree with the UN.

So - to clarify - you believe the ~ 1200 Israelis killed (notice how I'm not distinguishing whether they were civilian or not) on October 7th is mass murder, but you don't believe the ~ 37,000 Palestinians killed (again, notice how I'm not distinguishing civilian or not for either side here) is mass murder?

I specifically didn't exclude the other Israeli's in my original comment. I'm comfortable with both being mass-murder.

Funny isn't it, how you keep finding yourself defending a nation the UN has accused of committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violating both IHL and IHRL. Now you're arguing 'oh it's only a report and doesn't count.

Glorious. Junket Jazny in action.

 

[Jazny]

Funny isn't it, how you keep finding yourself defending a nation the UN has accused of committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violating both IHL and IHRL. Now you're arguing 'oh it's only a report and doesn't count.

Glorious. Junket Jazny in action.

When you're wrong, resort to the fake moral grandstanding. It works every time I guess.

If I believed Israel were deliberately killing and genociding Gazans, I would be saying Australia should declare war on Israel immediately. All Israeli diplomats would be removed from Australia and massive sanctions applied.

If it were really happening, I imagine the US would withdraw all support completely, the surrounding Arab states would probably all declare war and start invading Israel and Gaza. Why is none of this happening? Because Israel has the best junkets and stuff? Because America bad and loves genocide?

I am so sorry you believe nonsense and have been radicalised.

 

[faible]

When you're wrong

If I believed Israel were deliberately killing

Funny isn't it, how you keep finding yourself defending a nation the UN has accused of committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violating both IHL and IHRL.

Seems like I wasn't wrong. Even the UN telling you it's all of those things isn't enough for you.

 

[Demons09]

When you're wrong, resort to the fake moral grandstanding. It works every time I guess.

If I believed Israel were deliberately killing and genociding Gazans, I would be saying Australia should declare war on Israel immediately. All Israeli diplomats would be removed from Australia and massive sanctions applied.

If it were really happening, I imagine the US would withdraw all support completely, the surrounding Arab states would probably all declare war and start invading Israel and Gaza. Why is none of this happening? Because Israel has the best junkets and stuff? Because America bad and loves genocide?

I am so sorry you believe nonsense and have been radicalised.

I mean a few hundred protesting in the capital cities of Australia is some sort of validation that there’s Genocide, again it’s white saviour complex.

 

[faible]

I mean a few hundred protesting in the capital cities of Australia is some sort of validation for Genocide, again it’s white saviour complex.

It's ok, you're a Good German.

 

[Jazny]

Seems like I wasn't wrong. Even the UN telling you it's all of those things isn't enough for you.

The "UN" isn't telling me those things. It's an independent commission created by the UN who have made allegations.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The "UN" isn't telling me those things. It's an independent commission created by the UN who have made allegations.

So you believe the IDF spokesman over an independent commission?

 

[faible]

The "UN" isn't telling me those things. It's an independent commission created by the UN who have made allegations.

Glorious the level you're willing to go to in order to convince yourself you've not totally misread the situation.

At least in ZEV's case he's open about what he is. He knows what Israel is doing, he just doesn't actually care.

 

[Jazny]

Glorious the level you're willing to go to in order to convince yourself you've not totally misread the situation.

At least in ZEV's case he's open about what he is. He knows what Israel is doing, he just doesn't actually care.

Do you think that if Israel went into Gaza with the same intentions as Hamas went into Israel on Oct 7th (to indiscriminately kill as many people as they could), the death toll in Gaza would be a lot higher than it is currently? The death toll is about what you would expect to happen in this kind of war. So is the civilian casualty ratio if Israel and America are to be believed (which they are over Hamas, sorry). War is a horrible thing! War is also a complete last resort like when a powerful terrorist organisation like Hamas commit October 7th and threaten to do it again and again.

I am so sorry that the organisation you run cover and propaganda for are a bunch of disgusting terrorists, you have been radicalised by the idiots you read on twitter. It's a shame for you.

 

[faible]

Do you think that if Israel went into Gaza with the same intentions as Hamas went into Israel on Oct 7th (to indiscriminately kill as many people as they could), the death toll in Gaza would be a lot higher than it is currently? The death toll is about what you would expect to happen in this kind of war. So is the civilian casualty ratio if Israel and America are to be believed (which they are over Hamas, sorry). War is a horrible thing! War is also a complete last resort like when a powerful terrorist organisation like Hamas commit October 7th and threaten to do it again and again.

I am so sorry that the organisation you run cover and propaganda for are a bunch of disgusting terrorists, you have been radicalised by the idiots you read on twitter. It's a shame for you.

See, you're doing the same thing Zidane does. Confusing people who are deeply opposed to Israel and anyone else committing war crimes, with people who support Hamas. It's much easier to make me and others out to be the bad guy that way, we're wrong, not you, we support Hamas, so nothing we say matters or can be real.

I'm quite comfortable condemning Hamas for their actions. I'm also quite comfortable condemning Israel for theirs.

We don't actually have to guess at what Israel would do in Gaza or to Gazans. We're watching it. We're seeing the death, the destruction, the displacement. We're seeing the crimes. We're seeing the humanitarian crisis. And we're seeing all of this live through social media. So we're seeing what Israel is willing to do while the entire world can watch them do it. The only thing we have to imagine is how much worse it would be if they could do it hidden from public view. Of course you'll believe Israel's explanations, because you want to believe them, not believing them would require a level of self-reflection on the things you've spent months arguing.

I haven't spent months of my life arguing in favour of an Israeli regime that's been committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violating both IHL and IHRL. If you disagree with that, take it up with the report writers.

I do hope very much that some day, in a number of years time, you have the clarity and conscience to reflect back on how you spent your time these past few months arguing at every turn that what Israel was doing wasn't that bad, that it was justified, that it was necessary. That those tens of thousands of dead Palestinians, the hundreds of thousands injured and starving, the millions displaced. It was all necessary and justified.

When your kids, or grandkids ask what your thoughts were on the slaughter of the Palestinian people I hope you'll be honest and tell them 'I didn't think it was that bad, it was justified, it was necessary.'

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

So weird you would use that random definition. It's not a legal definition or a definition with any authority. Is is arbitrary and comes from the Early Warning Project. Did you search for any definition that had the arbitrary 1000 deaths cut off so you could try and exclude October 7th and then try and look like your being good faith and generous by including Oct 7th anyway? I dont know why else you would have used that specific definition.

Also why would you not count the Israeli soldiers targeted on Oct 7th in the death toll? Every death on Oct 7th committed by Hamas would be classified as a war crime, including the military personnel.

The OHCHR report you linked does not document how many cases of "murder" the commission found against Israel. It isn't even a legal document, it's just a random report that is supposed to inform policy and potentially legal investigations. You can't just use that random reference that doesn't give specific evidence to say Israel has committed mass killing or murder.


Again you are trying to claim that every civilian death in war is essentially "murder". Basically every country that has ever been to a major war is guilty of mass killing by your incorrect use of that definition. Read it again:

"1,000 noncombatant civilians targeted as part of a specific group". That's why the Early Warning Project doesn't list every war with 1000+ civilian casualties as cases of mass killing. It requires that they are targeted. October 7th is a clear case of a terrorist incident that indescriminately murdered civilians and non-legitimate Israeli military targets.

Israel's actions in the Israel-Hamas war have not been shown to deliberately target and kill civilians. Israel has to take every action to avoid civilian deaths which is very difficult in the kind of war they are fighting. If they wanted to target and kill civilians, the death toll would be enormous and the casualty ratio of civilians to combants would be so much higher than it is.

To be totally clear, I am not saying Israel is innocent of committing any war crime, but there is no evidence that I have seen that they are committing any reasonable definition of "mass murder". Hamas did though on October 7th. They legitimately went into Israel with no justification even under international law and murdered as many people as they could.

If Israel went into Gaza with the same intention to murder as many people as they could, the death toll would be in the millions by now.

Anyone has the legal right to resist their own brutal occupation, through violence if required. IDF members are absolutely legal targets.

It's actually Israel that have no legal right to self defence.

Where did you get your information? Because you're very wrong.

 

[faible]

When you're getting likes from this crew you know you have the most moral of positions

 

[Jazny]

See, you're doing the same thing Zidane does. Confusing people who are deeply opposed to Israel and anyone else committing war crimes, with people who support Hamas. It's much easier to make me and others out to be the bad guy that way, we're wrong, not you, we support Hamas, so nothing we say matters or can be real.

I'm quite comfortable condemning Hamas for their actions. I'm also quite comfortable condemning Israel for theirs.

We don't actually have to guess at what Israel would do in Gaza or to Gazans. We're watching it. We're seeing the death, the destruction, the displacement. We're seeing the crimes. We're seeing the humanitarian crisis. And we're seeing all of this live through social media. So we're seeing what Israel is willing to do while the entire world can watch them do it. Of course you'll believe Israel's explanations, because you want to believe them, not believing them would require a level of self-reflection on the things you've spent months arguing.

I haven't spent months of my life arguing in favour of an Israeli regime that's been committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violating both IHL and IHRL. If you disagree with that, take it up with the report writers.

I do hope very much that some day, in a number of years time, you have the clarity and conscience to reflect back on how you spent your time these past few months arguing at every turn that what Israel was doing wasn't that bad, that it was justified, that it was necessary. That those tens of thousands of dead Palestinians, the hundreds of thousands injured and starving, the millions displaced. It was all necessary and justified.

When your kids, or grandkids ask what your thoughts were on the slaughter of the Palestinian people I hope you'll be honest and tell them 'I didn't think it was that bad, it was justified, t was necessary.'

What a huge fake cry without answering the question.

I hope you tell your grandchildren you were amplifying obvious nonsense and casting doubt on sexual assault allegations in the wake of October 7th. I am really very comfortable with all my beliefs on the conflict and everything I have said, because it is all grounded in reality, not some stupid conspiracy theories about Israel controlling the world media through junkets and America being complicit in genocide blah blah blah.

Anyone has the legal right to resist their own brutal occupation, through violence if required. IDF members are absolutely legal targets.

lol what law is that you are referring to and how is it applied to October 7th? Even if there was some military advantage to be gained by October 7th (there wasn't), and the risk to civilian casaulties was proportional to the military advantage they would gain (it wasn't), the killing of Israeli security forces (many of which wouldn't be legitimate targets like police etc), would still be seen as an act of aggression and a war crime. The self-defence clause in the article wouldn't be defensible for Hamas's actions in committing October 7th and violence against Israeli security forces in Israel. They couldn't argue it was necessary or proportional and there was no prior act by Israel that would justify it.

Could you show me which articles you think could possibly justify the attack? Attacks on the Sderot police station for example, you think that was a legitimate military target under international law?

 

[faible]

I hope you tell your grandchildren you were amplifying obvious nonsense and casting doubt on sexual assault allegations in the wake of October 7th. I am really very comfortable with all my beliefs on the conflict and everything I have said, because it is all grounded in reality, not some stupid conspiracy theories about Israel controlling the world media through junkets and America being complicit in genocide blah blah blah.

As I said:

It's much easier to make me and others out to be the bad guy that way, we're wrong, not you, we support Hamas, so nothing we say matters or can be real.

I do hope very much that some day, in a number of years time, you have the clarity and conscience to reflect back on how you spent your time these past few months arguing at every turn that what Israel was doing wasn't that bad, that it was justified, that it was necessary.

 

[Jazny]

As I said:

As I said:

I hope you tell your grandchildren you were amplifying obvious nonsense and casting doubt on sexual assault allegations in the wake of October 7th.

 

[faible]

As I said:

Feel free to point out where I’ve done any of the above.

Seems to me those things you call obvious nonsense like Israel committing war crimes and crimes against humanity have all been validated.

 

[Jazny]

Feel free to point out where I’ve done any of the above.

Seems to me those things you call obvious nonsense like Israel committing war crimes and crimes against humanity have all been validated.

In response to Figjam on March 11, you responded "Even the UN investigation found that a number of the more egregious stories pushed by Israel regarding sexual assault and the systemic nature of it were at best unverifiable or at worst actually completely fabricated.

So clearly Israel thought it useful to exaggerate and fabricate such stories, same as the beheaded babies one. The more they paint Hamas as Palestinian as Barbarians the easier it is to justify the atrocities they’ve done (and are doing) to Palestinian civilians"

 

[faible]

In response to Figjam on March 11, you responded "Even the UN investigation found that a number of the more egregious stories pushed by Israel regarding sexual assault and the systemic nature of it were at best unverifiable or at worst actually completely fabricated.

So clearly Israel thought it useful to exaggerate and fabricate such stories, same as the beheaded babies one. The more they paint Hamas as Palestinian as Barbarians the easier it is to justify the atrocities they’ve done (and are doing) to Palestinian civilians"

So I was relating what the UN report had found?

 

[Jazny]

So I was relating what the UN report had found?

What UN report found that? And no, you went beyond anything you may or may not have read in a UN report. You go on to say "clearly Israel thought it useful to exaggerate and fabricate such stories". Is that in the UN report?

 

[faible]

What UN report found that? And no, you went beyond anything you may or may not have read in a UN report. You go on to say "clearly Israel thought it useful to exaggerate and fabricate such stories". Is that in the UN report?

No that was my follow on from what the UN report said. It’s a discussion forum, where people discuss things that they might read or are reported about topical issues.

Israel has done exactly what I’ve accused them of though. It’s worked too, on you. Here you are, months on, justifying their war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of IHL and IHRL.

 

[faible]

I also appreciate you’ve spent another day on this, we’re almost at July. Will you develop a conscience before then?

you spent your time these past few months arguing at every turn that what Israel was doing wasn't that bad, that it was justified, that it was necessary. That those tens of thousands of dead Palestinians, the hundreds of thousands injured and starving, the millions displaced. It was all necessary and justified.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So clearly Israel thought it useful to exaggerate and fabricate such stories, same as the beheaded babies one. The more they paint Hamas as Palestinian as Barbarians the easier it is to justify the atrocities they’ve done (and are doing) to Palestinian civilians"

You've known about this for months, but decided to double, triple down on it.

 

[Jazny]

I also appreciate you’ve spent another day on this, we’re almost at July. Will you develop a conscience before then?

I am not the one denying sexual assault allegations against a terrorist organisation.