Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[faible]

I am not the one denying sexual assault allegations against a terrorist organisation.

Who denied there was sexual assaults?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

What UN report found that? And no, you went beyond anything you may or may not have read in a UN report. You go on to say "clearly Israel thought it useful to exaggerate and fabricate such stories". Is that in the UN report?

It's in this Times of London report - https://archive.md/j9XSE:







Israel has a long history of using racist rapist tropes against Palestinian men for their own settler-colonial purposes:

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Also the UNHCR report:



They actually found it's the IDF who use sexual violence as a regular practice:

 

[Jazny]

It's in this Times of London report - https://archive.md/j9XSE:

View attachment 2032779

View attachment 2032771

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Israel has a long history of using racist rapist tropes against Palestinian men for their own settler-colonial purposes:

View attachment 2032778

what propaganda network did you get that clipped and cherrypicked nonsense from? Apparently the experts they used in the article have come out and denounced the article for misleading their words. Nice try.

Now let's see the UN report that supposedly says Israel fabricated rape allegations please.

 

[Jazny]

Also the UNHCR report:

View attachment 2032792

They actually found it's the IDF who use sexual violence as a regular practice:

View attachment 2032795

Oh noo.. poor guy. This is what happens when you only get your news from propaganda sites and never check sources. If you did you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself so hard. Let's read the actual report:

D. SGBV​

1. The Commission found indications that members of the military wing of Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups committed gender-based violence (GBV) in several locations in southern Israel on 7 October. These were not isolated incidents but perpetrated in similar ways in several locations and by multiple Palestinian perpetrators. The acts documented by the Commission reflected clear abuse of power by male perpetrators and a disregard for the special considerations and protection of women’s integrity and autonomy granted by international law.
2. Hamas military wing rejected all accusations that its forces committed sexual violence against Israeli women.[19] However, the Commission documented cases indicative of sexual violence perpetrated against women and men in and around the Nova festival site, as well as the Nahal Oz military outpost and several kibbutzim, including Kfar Aza, Re’im and Nir Oz. It collected and preserved digital evidence, including images of victims’ bodies displaying indications of sexual violence, a pattern corroborated by independent testimonies from witnesses. Reliable witness accounts obtained by the Commission describe bodies that had been undressed, in some incidents with exposed genitals. The Commission received reports and verified digital evidence concerning the restraining of women, including hands and sometimes feet of women being bound, often behind the victims’ backs, prior to their abduction or killing. Additionally, the Commission made assessments based on the position of the body, for example images displaying legs spread or bent over, and signs of struggle or violence on the body, such as stab wounds, burns, lacerations and abrasions.
3. The Commission has reviewed testimonies obtained by journalists and the Israeli police concerning rape but has not been able to independently verify such allegations, due to a lack of access to victims, witnesses and crime sites and the obstruction of its investigations by the Israeli authorities. The Commission was unable to review the unedited version of such testimonies. For the same reasons, the Commission was also unable to verify reports of sexualized torture and genital mutilation. Additionally, the Commission found some specific allegations to be false, inaccurate or contradictory with other evidence or statements and discounted these from its assessment.
4. Civilian women were deliberately killed by militants during their abduction or while trying to escape, including in Be’eri, Mefalsim, Nir Oz and close to the Nova site. The Commission has documented three such cases with verified digital footage, showing that women were shot at close range while trying to escape.
5. Ninety women and girls were abducted to Gaza on 7 October. The Commission documented the physical and psychological violence in the process of several of these abductions. Many abductions were filmed, with women placed on the back of vehicles including motorbikes and brought to Gaza; acts committed with force, threat of force or the fear of violence. The abductees were forced to sit very close to their abductors and filmed during their abduction, in several cases placed between two men on a small motorbike, forcing them to coerced intimacy with their abductors. Female abductees have described how they were subjected to physical and psychological violence in the course of their abductions, being treated as “trophies” or “objects” or subjected to insults such as Jewish female The Commission found that women were disproportionally affected by this type of gender-based crime and documented many cases with the same pattern, from both kibbutzim and the Nova festival.
6. Women and women’s bodies were used as victory trophies by male perpetrators. The abduction, violence and humiliation of women were put on public display, either on the streets of Gaza and/or by recording the bodies of women or the acts of the crime and publishing it online for propaganda purposes. This type of gender-based crime was identified by the Commission in many locations, women being the primary but not the only target.
7. The Commission documented the desecration of both male and female bodies, including sexual acts such as undressing the body and/or displaying it partially undressed in public. In several cases the victims’ undressed bodies were displayed as a means of humiliation and disrespect, while these acts were filmed and disseminated. Militants posed with bodies in the streets of Gaza and in videos and photos, violating the personal dignity of the dead persons.

This is horrible for you. You obviously got that highlighted screen shot from a propagand site. Thats why you know nothing. Whats even sadder is the same report claims that Hamas killed Israeli soldiers that were considered hors de combat. Which is a war crime, earlier you tried to say they were legitimate targets.
​

. Killing of soldiers considered hors de combat and sexual and gender-based violence (SGBV) in Nahal Oz military outpost​

1. The Commission investigated an attack on the Nahal Oz military outpost in which members of the military wing of Hamas and other armed groups killed 66 ISF soldiers, including one male soldier who was decapitated after death, and female intelligence observation soldiers (Tazpitaniyot), who were young, unarmed, and untrained for combat. The Commission found that militants killed at least 20 female soldiers and abducted seven. The Commission notes that in several cases these soldiers were visibly unarmed, wounded, hiding, captured and/or showing signs of having surrendered at the time of their abduction or killing, including one case where three female soldiers were hiding under a desk and shot and killed. The Commission finds reasonable grounds to believe that some soldiers were hors de combat and should not have been attacked.
2. The Commission found that seven female soldiers were taken to Gaza as hostages and viewed footage showing that they had been subjected to physical and verbal abuse. Four female bodies found at Nahal Oz outpost were partially or completely undressed, two of which were isolated in separate rooms, showing signs of physical abuse and sexual violence.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/coi-report-a-hrc-56-26-27may24/

Anything else you want to bring up that you are horribly wrong about and exposes you as propagandised?

 

[Jazny]

It's rare that a poster self explodes so hard that they lose two different arguments with the one cherrypicked screenshot

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

what propaganda network did you get that clipped and cherrypicked nonsense from? Apparently the experts they used in the article have come out and denounced the article for misleading their words. Nice try.

Now let's see the UN report that supposedly says Israel fabricated rape allegations please.

That's your refutation?

Apparently?

That's the Times of London sweetheart.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It's rare that a poster self explodes so hard that they lose two different arguments with the one cherrypicked screenshot

Yeah none of that addresses what I posted. Nice try though.

 

[Jazny]

That's your refutation?

Apparently?

That's the Times of London sweetheart.

The Times of London didn't highlight it, its been cherrypicked and reposted on some propaganda social media probably where you saw it. The actual article doesn't refute rape happened. Those experts quoted in the article have come out against the article anyway. So one contentious article that doesn't even claim that no sexual assault happened, vs the entire body of evidence that it did. Which includes the very UN report that you stupidly linked that had also been cherrypicked.

I wonder if you know how bad this looks for you...

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

The Times of London didn't highlight it, its been cherrypicked and reposted on some propaganda social media probably where you saw it. The article doesn't refute rape happened. Those experts quoted in the article have come out against the article anyway. So one contentious article that doesn't even claim that no sexual assault happened, vs the entire body of evidence that it did. Which includes the very UN report that you stupidly linked that had also been cherrypicked.

I wonder if you know how bad this looks for you...

Again you have nothing to say about the information posted. Which part is incorrect?

Your childish trolling was tired before you joined this site.

You keep saying evidence - I'm yet to see any.

In fact from your own post I do see this:

The Commission has reviewed testimonies obtained by journalists and the Israeli police concerning rape but has not been able to independently verify such allegations, due to a lack of access to victims, witnesses and crime sites and the obstruction of its investigations by the Israeli authorities.

Pretty sus that all they have to go on is the word of Israeli journalists and police. I call that hearsay, not evidence. Got anything else?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

It's rare that a poster self explodes so hard that they lose two different arguments with the one cherrypicked screenshot

 

[Jazny]

View attachment 2032859

My favourite

Guys, please consume a healthy dose of Junket. It stops you from being so badly misinformed by social media that you end up posting cherrypicked articles that actually disprove two of your own points. You need a balanced diet of Junket with a side of Primary Source if you want a well rounded news diet.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

At least give us a link to all these quoted sources saying they didnt' actually mean it.

Otherwise this is ignore list level posting.

 

[Jazny]

At least give us a link to all these quoted sources saying they didnt' actually mean it.

Otherwise this is ignore list level posting.

Israeli experts say U.K. newspaper took comments on Hamas' sexual violence out of context

***

www.haaretz.com

Might be easier to read here.

MSN

Don't worry, you're on ignore now anyway. So boring disproving propagandised people.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Yeah so they weren't misquoted, they just didn't like the article.

You've disproven nothing. You've not even addressed the facts posted.

The propagandised one is probably the one unable to address reality. Can only try and maintain the narrative they've been fed their entire lives. If there is one thing Israel has done exceptionally above all others, it's convince the world they are somehow the victims while conducting a brutal 75 year occupation.

 

[Jazny]

Yeah so they weren't misquoted, they just didn't like the article.

You've disproven nothing. You've not even addressed the facts posted.

The propagandised one is probably the one unable to address reality. Can only try and maintain the narrative they've been fed their entire lives. If there is one thing Israel has done exceptionally above all others, it's convince the world they are somehow the victims while conducting a brutal 75 year occupation.

This doesn't look good for you, that's why none of the anti-Israel people are backing you up on this.

Your best evidence that Israel fabricated rape comes from two screenshots. One of clearly cherrypicked parts of an article that is contentious and the experts used have come out and said was misleading. The other screenshot was really funny because it was cherrypicked parts of a UN report that actually said that Hamas DID commit sexual assault. Your screenshot just cherry picked parts to make it seem like the report discredited reports of sexual assault. But only if you can't read I guess. The UN report did not claim Israel was fabricating rape.

The funny part was the UN report you yourself brought up also was that is also went against your claim that IDF soldiers are legitimate targets, calling out Hamas for the warcrime of killing IDF soldiers that were hors de combat and therefore not legitimate targets. You would have known this if you actually read the primary source that the screenshot was taken from.

To top it off, the fact that you posted the highlighted cherrypicked screenshots from the articles instead of the articles themselves proves that you get your information from sources that are propagandising you. I don't believe you were the one that took the screenshot and removed the parts that disproved your own argument. If you did, you are really dishonest and a grifter. If you didn't, you found those screenshots somewhere, probably social media, and reposted them with zero fact checking. Which just highlights why I am so against getting all your news from social media.

Not good.

And with that summary we are done.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

This doesn't look good for you, that's why none of the anti-Israel people are backing you up on this.

Your best evidence that Israel fabricated rape comes from two screenshots. One of clearly cherrypicked parts of an article that is contentious and the experts used have come out and said was misleading. The other screenshot was really funny because it was clearly cherrypicked parts of a UN report that actually said that Hamas DID commit sexual assault. Your screenshot just cherry picked parts to make it seem like the report discredited reports of sexual assault. But only if you can't read I guess. The UN report did not claim Israel was fabricating rape.

The funny part was the UN report you yourself brought up also was that is also went against your claim that IDF soldiers are legitimate targets, calling out Hamas for the warcrime of killing IDF soldiers that were hors de combat and therefore not legitimate targets.

To top it off, the fact that you posted the highlighted cherrypicked screenshots from the articles instead of the articles themselves proves that you get your information from sources that are propagandising you. I don't believe you were the one that took the screenshot and removed the parts that disproved your own argument. If you did, you are really dishonest and a grifter. If you didn't, you found those screenshots somewhere, probably social media, and reposted them with zero fact checking. Which just highlights why I am so against getting all your news from social media.

Not good.

And with that summary we are done.

Jazny, what are your thoughts on all the sexual assaults and rapes perpetrated by the IDF? You never seem to mention them.

 

[Jazny]

Jazny, what are your thoughts on all the sexual assaults and rape perpetrated by the IDF? You never seem to mention them.

All rape allegations against the IDF members should be fully and thoroughly investigated and the guilty perpetrators should spend their lives in prison.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

All rape allegations against the IDF members should be fully and thoroughly investigated and the guilty perpetrators should spend their lives in prison.

Do you trust the IDF to investigate itself? Or should it be investigated by an independent commission?

 

[DapperDon]

All rape allegations against the IDF members should be fully and thoroughly investigated and the guilty perpetrators should spend their lives in prison.

So they shouldn't have their homes bombed and city destroyed?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

This doesn't look good for you, that's why none of the anti-Israel people are backing you up on this.

Your best evidence that Israel fabricated rape comes from two screenshots. One of clearly cherrypicked parts of an article that is contentious and the experts used have come out and said was misleading. The other screenshot was really funny because it was cherrypicked parts of a UN report that actually said that Hamas DID commit sexual assault. Your screenshot just cherry picked parts to make it seem like the report discredited reports of sexual assault. But only if you can't read I guess. The UN report did not claim Israel was fabricating rape.

The funny part was the UN report you yourself brought up also was that is also went against your claim that IDF soldiers are legitimate targets, calling out Hamas for the warcrime of killing IDF soldiers that were hors de combat and therefore not legitimate targets. You would have known this if you actually read the primary source that the screenshot was taken from.

To top it off, the fact that you posted the highlighted cherrypicked screenshots from the articles instead of the articles themselves proves that you get your information from sources that are propagandising you. I don't believe you were the one that took the screenshot and removed the parts that disproved your own argument. If you did, you are really dishonest and a grifter. If you didn't, you found those screenshots somewhere, probably social media, and reposted them with zero fact checking. Which just highlights why I am so against getting all your news from social media.

Not good.

And with that summary we are done.

You asked about reports that suggested Israel may have exaggerated stories about sexual assault - I showed you one that could be taken that way.

These are documents - not screenshots. You seem to be of the opinion that if you read a quote or a small enough section of an article - without sufficient surrounding text - it becomes invalid or incorrect? Which part of the quoted text is inaccurate? What do you refute here, exactly?

I said IDF were valid targets for an occupations resistance - the fact you say some of them weren't, means you acknowledge that. I detest Hamas targetting civilians, including defenceless troops begging for their lives. I wish with everything that it never happened. But I will also condemn Isreal's deliberate targeting of civilians, of which there has been too much evidence to credibly deny. At this point no one could ever convince me otherwise.


I posted a link to the article I quoted in the original post - here it is again for you: https://archive.md/j9XSE.

 

[Jazny]

These are documents - not screenshots. You seem to be of the opinion that if you read a quote or a small enough section of an article - without sufficient surrounding text - it becomes invalid or incorrect? Which part of the quoted text is inaccurate? What do you refute here, exactly?

If you cherrypick anyone's statements you can mislead without needing to make up quotes. That is why the experts have called the article out and apparently. The Times are investigating it. If I said "Hamas did commit mass rape, there is tonnes of evidence of it. But Netanyahu is weaponising the tropes of Palestinians as rapists to drum up support for his war". But all that was quoted was

"Netanyahu is weaponising the tropes of Palestinians as rapists to drum up support for his war"

and someone used that quote to suggest that rapes didn't actually happen.... that would be incredibly misleading. It's basically what that reading of the article is doing. This is actually a really common tactic.

Same with the cherrypicked parts of the UN report which you posted the screenshots of. It was designed to make it seem like Israel made up the stories of sexual assault and there was no evidence of it happening, but if you read the primary source its clearly not what is being said. Quite the opposite.

I said IDF were valid targets for an occupations resistance - the fact you say some of them weren't, means you acknowledge that.

There isn't a world where October 7th under the conditions it was committed was not a war crime even if only IDF soldiers who werent surrendering were killed. It fails many tests and would be a war crime in multiple ways, even without hors de combat. The discounting of killing Israeli security forces on October 7th as though they were all legitimate targets is pretty disgusting really.

I detest Hamas targetting civilians, including defenceless troops begging for their lives. I wish with everything that it never happened. But I will also condemn Isreal's deliberate targeting of civilians, of which there has been too much evidence to credibly deny. At this point no one could ever convince me otherwise.

I havent seen any evidence that Israel as a whole is deliberately killing civilians as a matter of policy. If they really wanted to, they could end this war in maybe the first 4 or 5 weeks by just killing everyone and starving them all to death. They would also lose virtually no troops.

But I don't deny there would be war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers in the war. Unfortunately war crimes happen in pretty much every war and too often they go unpunished.

 

[Zidane98]

Once the war is over both parties need to be hauled before a war crimes Commission with sanctions & punishment so severe for those who are guilty that will send a message for wherever the next war starts.

UN should also look at forcing both sides to implement UN181 again (in a realistic time frame)

The consequence of not accepting this for both sides should be stripping of statehood, expulsion from all international organisations & associations.

 

[Zidane98]

When you're wrong, resort to the fake moral grandstanding. It works every time I guess.

If I believed Israel were deliberately killing and genociding Gazans, I would be saying Australia should declare war on Israel immediately. All Israeli diplomats would be removed from Australia and massive sanctions applied.

If it were really happening, I imagine the US would withdraw all support completely, the surrounding Arab states would probably all declare war and start invading Israel and Gaza. Why is none of this happening? Because Israel has the best junkets and stuff? Because America bad and loves genocide?

I am so sorry you believe nonsense and have been radicalised.

Imagine a poster who pedals Al-Jazeera as an unbiased source in the Hamas - Israel war despite one of their journalists bring an actual Hamas member calling out another poster for biased media sources.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

There isn't a world where October 7th under the conditions it was committed was not a war crime even if only IDF soldiers who werent surrendering were killed. It fails many tests and would be a war crime in multiple ways, even without hors de combat. The discounting of killing Israeli security forces on October 7th as though they were all legitimate targets is pretty disgusting really.

This is just nonsense. Organised resistance and national liberation movements have every right to resist their occupation. You may be incredulous, because you expect Palestinians to just accept their oppression in slience, but this right is in the GCs.

Unfortunately for them, they don't have the luxury of delivering their payloads from 15000ft. That doesn't make their fight any less valid. Members of the Armed Forces that are enforcing that occupation are absolutely valid targets. This is a generational conflict. These are the people stationed surrounding Gaza, enforcing an occupation for decades. By their actions and associations they are participants in hostilities, and don't receive any protection from attacks.

These are the exact rules by which you excuse any Israeli strike on the family home of someone potentially affiliated with Hamas. Where is your outcry?

Which conditions and circumstances would you find Palestinian resistance acceptable? How would you like a people cleansed from their homes and territory to resist? What's palatable to you?

I havent seen any evidence that Israel as a whole is deliberately killing civilians as a matter of policy. If they really wanted to, they could end this war in maybe the first 4 or 5 weeks by just killing everyone and starving them all to death. They would also lose virtually no troops.

Sorry, but this is an amateur argument, I'm starting to think you have a very superficial understading of events. Israel and it's allies require plausible deniability to continue their occupation. Israel has to show some restraint, otherwise even the US would be forced to drop their support.

Haven't seen evidence, huh? We could start on the very first day:





Lets skip a day or so:





They sent a warning message to leave their homes - then bomb the refugee camp. 69 people. There is no proportionality here, no justification. I could of course go on, almost endlessly.

Please, forgive me for once again using words to convey meaning.

I do wonder how you've managed to avoid any of the multitudes of reports and evidence of Israelis deliberately killing civilians. You've done well to keep your little head in the sand. Surely you've heard of Lavender, and 'Where's Daddy'? You know, like Robodebt but for killing people?

How about the World Kitchen aid workers? Sure, if it was one missile I could imagine claiming it was a mistake. Maaayyybe 2. But they took 3 goes to kill them. 3 different cars. That's not an error - that's policy.

Unless you're one of the many who consider all Palestinians Hamas, of course?

Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza

Amnesty International has documented damning evidence of war crimes.

www.amnesty.org

‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza

The Israeli army has marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using an AI targeting system with little human oversight and a permissive policy for casualties, +972 and Local Call reveal.

www.972mag.com