Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[faible]

Firstly it is terrible that innocents have been killed and wounded.

Smart of Israel in a way this modus operandi but looking at the bigger picture, too smart for their own good. This will galvanise Lebanon, Iran and probably other Middle Eastern countries to avenge these killings and Israeli influence in the geopolitical arena.

US, UK & Aust in the meantime will just put their hands up, claim non-involvement and stand by watching this deadly war continue.

'Booby-trapped' communication devices kill dozens across Lebanon as UN calls for investigation — as it happened

At least 20 people have been killed in a series of fresh explosions targeting communication devices used by the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah.

www.abc.net.au

According to this, the US is still on-board.

US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin spoke with Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant on Wednesday to review regional security developments.

Mr Lloyd reiterated US support for Israel in the face of threats from Iran, Hezbollah and other Iranian allies, the Pentagon said.

 

[faible]

Hezbollah is a criminal terrorist organisation. It needs to be destroyed. That requires military action. It is impossible to conceive of an action that would substantively harm hundreds of members without limited collateral damage.

That's great and all:

Is it a problem for you that I can recognise the 'collateral' damage is a real human being, a real child?

 

[jason_recliner]

That's great and all:

Your claim was that it wasn't a targeted attack, when in fact it was targeted with surgical precision (given the number of targets involved). What would you do better?

 

[faible]

You're claim was that it wasn't a targeted attack, when in fact it was targeted with surgical precision (given the number of targets involved). What would you do better?

I'm not the one claiming it wasn't targeted, that would be Human Rights Watch (among others);

Lebanon: Exploding Pagers Harmed Hezbollah, Civilians

Thousands of pagers simultaneously exploded across Lebanon and parts of Syria on September 17, 2024, resulting in at least 12 deaths, including at least two children and two health workers, and at least 2,800 injuries, according to Lebanon’s Ministry of Health.

www.hrw.org

As said by Lama Fakih, Middle East and North Africa Director at Human Rights Watch:

The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate

So by surgical precision, you mean more like surgical estimation? It'll get a lot of bad people, but also some not bad people along the way.

Israel had no way of knowing at the time of detonation who would be holding the device or where those devices would be.

This isn't a team sport, you don't have to be all like 'yay Israel they got Hezbollah' whilst ignoring the dead civilians caught up in the crossfire.

 

[jason_recliner]

I'm not the one claiming it wasn't targeted, that would be Human Rights Watch (among others);

Lebanon: Exploding Pagers Harmed Hezbollah, Civilians

Thousands of pagers simultaneously exploded across Lebanon and parts of Syria on September 17, 2024, resulting in at least 12 deaths, including at least two children and two health workers, and at least 2,800 injuries, according to Lebanon’s Ministry of Health.

www.hrw.org

As said by Lama Fakih, Middle East and North Africa Director at Human Rights Watch:



So by surgical precision, you mean more like surgical estimation? It'll get a lot of bad people, but also some not bad people along the way.

Israel had no way of knowing at the time of detonation who would be holding the device or where those devices would be.

This isn't a team sport, you don't have to be all like 'yay Israel they got Hezbollah' whilst ignoring the dead civilians caught up in the crossfire.

They were pagers known to be used by Hezbollah. YOU claim that's not a surgical attack. What would you do better?

 

[Kurve]

Israel had no way of knowing at the time of detonation who would be holding the device or where those devices would be.

The devices are designed to be worn on a body, generally clipped to the waist or in a pocket, that's where they should have been at 3.30 in the afternoon on a working week day.

The school day for elementary on, ends at 4.00pm.

 

[faible]

They were pagers known to be used by Hezbollah. YOU claim that's not a surgical attack. What would you do better?

This is a logical fallacy. I don't need to proffer a better alternative to be sad about the death of innocent children.

As HRW said, the location at the time of detonation could not be reliably known. And as expected, some civilians (tbc how many) have died. We know at least one of them was a child.

 

[faible]

The devices are designed to be worn on a body, generally clipped to the waist or in a pocket, that's where they should have been at 3.30 in the afternoon on a working week day.

The school day for elementary on, ends at 4.00pm.

Guess no one told the 9 year old not to pick up the pager.

 

[jason_recliner]

This is a logical fallacy. I don't need to proffer a better alternative to be sad about the death of innocent children.

As HRW said, the location at the time of detonation could not be reliably known. And as expected, some civilians (tbc how many) have died. We know at least one of them was a child.

It's got nothing to do with being sad about a dead child. YOU claimed it's not a surgical attack. You either can think of a better tactic and outcome or you can't.

 

[faible]

It's got nothing to do with being sad about a dead child.

Sure it does. That's the reality of 'collateral damage'. A dead child.

YOU claimed it's not a surgical attack.

HRW (among others) did that.

You either can think of a better tactic and outcome or you can't.

This is a logical fallacy.

 

[jason_recliner]

HRW (among others) did that.

You either agree with them or you don't. You do, so what would you do better? What is the definition of 'surgical precision' to you? There's nothing fallacious about it - don't be puerile.

 

[faible]

You either agree with them or you don't. You do, so what would you do better? What is the definition of 'surgical precision' to you? There's nothing fallacious about it - don't be puerile.

As I said, this is a logical fallacy. I don't need to offer an alternative. The death of a 9 year old girl tells you it has caused collateral damage.

It's a really weird situation when you're attacking people who aren't jumping up and down with glee about dead kids.

 

[Zidane98]

Sure it does. That's the reality of 'collateral damage'. A dead child.

Yes it is and it is a tragic reality of war. Hezbollah had no need to fire 7000 rockets at Israeli civilians, no need to massacre civilians in Golan Heights, no need to attempt an attack with 6000 + rockets on Israeli civilians. Considering this and the surgical nature of Israel's response I would say in my opinion it was entirely in proportion and justified.

If you're able to suggest ways to mitigate civilian casualties I'm sure Israel would be happy to hear you unless you are honestly suggesting that the requirement for Israel in taking military action against Hezbollah is a 0.00% collateral damage rate.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

You either agree with them or you don't. You do, so what would you do better? What is the definition of 'surgical precision' to you? There's nothing fallacious about it - don't be puerile.

This is the exact opposite of a precision attack.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Yes it is and it is a tragic reality of war. Hezbollah had no need to fire 7000 rockets at Israeli civilians, no need to massacre civilians in Golan Heights, no need to attempt an attack with 6000 + rockets on Israeli civilians. Considering this and the surgical nature of Israel's response I would say in my opinion it was entirely in proportion and justified.

If you're able to suggest ways to mitigate civilian casualties I'm sure Israel would be happy to hear you unless you are honestly suggesting that the requirement for Israel in taking military action against Hezbollah is a 0.00% collateral damage rate.

With this action, Israel has defined it’s entire population of military reservists as legitimate targets. Thats if Lebanon was to play by Israels rules of engagement.

Thats what you are cheering for.

 

[faible]

Hezbollah had no need to fire 7000 rockets at Israeli civilians, no need to massacre civilians in Golan Heights, no need to attempt an attack with 6000 + rockets on Israeli civilians.

Any chance? If you're going to keep using these numbers, where are they from?

Where do the 7000 and 6000 numbers you're claiming come from? You're the first to complain about sources.

 

[faible]

With this action, Israel has defined it’s entire population of military reservists as legitimate targets. Thats if Lebanon was to play by Israels rules of engagement.

Thats what you are cheering for.

He's also conveniently ignoring the mass civilian casualties in Gaza whilst posting about how they've executed a response with surgical precision.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

He's also conveniently ignoring the mass civilian casualties in Gaza whilst posting about how they've executed a response with surgical precision.

Rocket surgery

 

[Zidane98]

As I said, this is a logical fallacy. I don't need to offer an alternative. The death of a 9 year old girl tells you it has caused collateral damage.

It's a really weird situation when you're attacking people who aren't jumping up and down with glee about dead kids.

Absent here is a lack of responsibility to Hezbollah who have attacked Israel on a large scale simply because their genocidal allies Hamas decided to launch a terror attack against Israel and probably because their Iranian backers also said have at it. Had Hezbollah stayed out of the war this definitely wouldn't have happened.

We go again to a hijacked plane having to be shot down because the terrorists aim to crash it into a large city causing thousands of civilian deaths. The blood of the innocent civilians on board is on the hands of the terrorists. Not on those who shot it down. Under your logic you hold no responsibility to the terrorists in the above scenario and hold those responsible for shooting the plane down guilty for the death of innocent civilians.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Absent here is a lack of responsibility to Hezbollah who have attacked Israel on a large scale simply because their genocidal allies Hamas decided to launch a terror attack against Israel and probably because their Iranian backers also said have at it. Had Hezbollah stayed out of the war this definitely wouldn't have happened.

We go again to a hijacked plane having to be shot down because the terrorists aim to crash it into a large city causing thousands of civilian deaths. The blood of the innocent civilians on board is on the hands of the terrorists. Not on those who shot it down. Under your logic you hold no responsibility to the terrorists in the above scenario and hold those responsible for shooting the plane down guilty for the death of innocent civilians.

This plan would have been years in the making.

 

[faible]

Absent here is a lack of responsibility to Hezbollah who have attacked Israel on a large scale simply because their genocidal allies Hamas decided to launch a terror attack against Israel and probably because their Iranian backers also said have at it. Had Hezbollah stayed out of the war this definitely wouldn't have happened.

We go again to a hijacked plane having to be shot down because the terrorists aim to crash it into a large city causing thousands of civilian deaths. The blood of the innocent civilians on board is on the hands of the terrorists. Not on those who shot it down. Under your logic you hold no responsibility to the terrorists in the above scenario and hold those responsible for shooting the plane down guilty for the death of innocent civilians.

I hold responsibility against those who do the killing.

Hamas are responsible for the innocents they've killed.
Israel are responsible for the innocents they've killed.
Hezbollah are responsible for the innocents they've killed.

Your analogy is incredibly wrong. It was wrong yesterday, and it's wrong today.

 

[Zidane98]

I hold responsibility against those who do the killing.

Hamas are responsible for the innocents they've killed.
Israel are responsible for the innocents they've killed.
Hezbollah are responsible for the innocents they've killed.

Your analogy is incredibly wrong. It was wrong yesterday, and it's wrong today.

It isn't wrong at all. Incredibly naive and dishonest to expect 0.00% collateral damage rates in a war which essentially is what you are saying here. Your posting aldo suggests this us what you expect of Israel but not of other parties to the war.

It would be ideal if there was no war at all and failing that a war with a 0.00% casualty rate would also be ideal.

The reality is this is impossible and if this theory was applied in WW2 to action against Hitler forces all that would have happened is 10 X the civilian deaths rate on the allies side for not stopping Hitler.

 

[faible]

It isn't wrong at all. Incredibly naive and dishonest to expect 0.00% collateral damage rates in a war which essentially is what you are saying here. Your posting aldo suggests this us what you expect of Israel but not of other parties to the war.

It would be ideal if there was no war at all and failing that a war with a 0.00% casualty rate would also be ideal.

The reality is this is impossible and if this theory was applied in WW2 to action against Hitler forces all that would have happened is 10 X the civilian deaths rate on the allies side for not stopping Hitler.

Who said they expect that? I'd love a quote.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be making things up again would you?

 

[sherb]

Absent here is a lack of responsibility to Hezbollah who have attacked Israel on a large scale simply because their genocidal allies Hamas decided to launch a terror attack against Israel and probably because their Iranian backers also said have at it. Had Hezbollah stayed out of the war this definitely wouldn't have happened.

We go again to a hijacked plane having to be shot down because the terrorists aim to crash it into a large city causing thousands of civilian deaths. The blood of the innocent civilians on board is on the hands of the terrorists. Not on those who shot it down. Under your logic you hold no responsibility to the terrorists in the above scenario and hold those responsible for shooting the plane down guilty for the death of innocent civilians.

Absent here is a lack of responsibility to Israel, whose years of oppression of the Palestinian people, stealing Palestinian land and murdering Palestinian civilans led to the formation of Hamas. Had Israel not treated the Palestinians that way, Hamas would not have been formed and the October 7th attack definitely wouldn't have happened.

I'm reminded of the analogy regarding a hijacked plane having to be shot down because the terrorists aim to crash it into a large city causing thousands of civilian deaths. The blood of the innocent civilians on board is on the hands of the terrorists. Not on those who shot it down. Under your logic you hold no responsibility to the terrorists in the above scenario and hold those responsible for shooting the plane down guilty for the death of innocent civilians.

 

[Zidane98]

Absent here is a lack of responsibility to Israel, whose years of oppression of the Palestinian people, stealing Palestinian land and murdering Palestinian civilans led to the formation of Hamas. Had Israel not treated the Palestinians that way, Hamas would not have been formed and the October 7th attack definitely wouldn't have happened.

I'm reminded of the analogy regarding a hijacked plane having to be shot down because the terrorists aim to crash it into a large city causing thousands of civilian deaths. The blood of the innocent civilians on board is on the hands of the terrorists. Not on those who shot it down. Under your logic you hold no responsibility to the terrorists in the above scenario and hold those responsible for shooting the plane down guilty for the death of innocent civilians.

Why are you posting whataboutisms here when the discussion is about action against Hezbollah?

Bizarre in the extreme.