Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[Ghost Patrol]

I note that Hamas does not distinguish between civilian and militant casualties. Either do you.

This is weird. Why does Israel keep saying 1200 dead on Oct 7, when approx 500 of them were military?

Why doesn't Israel distinguish between civilian and military casualties?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Ok sorry if I misrepresented your reply but I’m absolutely sure you don’t know better than Israel what is the best response to terrorists, that don’t play by Penny Wong’s roolz and have promised to repeat October 7 “over and over again”. That wasn’t a throwaway line, it’s in their charter!

What would we (Australia) do if we suffered a similar attack? Would we do everything possible to destroy the threat? I would hope so!

A rogue organisation does not play by rules and should not be negotiated with (never negotiate with terrorists is a long-held truism) or appeased in any way with “deals”. These are regarded by terrorist regimes as weakness.

Let’s face it, we can’t imagine what it’s like over there, we don’t appreciate the magnitude of the consequences. The threat is much wider than just to Israel. It’s easy to oversimplify, we see the answers so clearly! Why can’t they?

Reply was to sherb

 

[Jazny]

Hizbullahs paramilitary wing has been listed as a terrorist organisation since 2003. It's only more recently, after a campaign by Israel and it's local interests (Zionist Federation of Australia, AIJAC, Executive Council of Australian Jewry) that it's legitimate civilian political and social branches were included under that designation in Australia.

This gives Israel a pseudon-legal justification to target these civilian entities directly, and have those attacks supported and cheered here. As we can see with Israel deliberately targeting the Islamic Health Unit facilities and staff while attempting to rescue victims of attacks. War crimes, completely ignored. Israel can carry out extrajudicial killings of political leadership, security officials with no military role and reservists (non-combatants) and have mouthbreathers clap their hands.

It gives them cover for their Dahiya doctrine being carried out currently in Beirut, and in Dahiya itself. 3,000 building destroyed or damaged in Lebanon in 2 weeks.

View attachment 2132617

Australia's classification of all of Hezbollah as terrorist organisation in no way at all, ever, in any world, changes Israel's legal responsibilities under IHL. You can call Hezbollah terrorists, invaders or freedom fighters and it changes nothing. I know the various Jewish lobbying groups are the bogeyman to conspiracy theorists, but as if they are going to waste their time lobbying Australia to change their stance on Hezbollah to provide no cover at all to any Israeli attack on Hezbollah. These things are in no way related. They have other domestic motivations for having their input into the review.

I realise you said "pseudo-legal", but it doesn't even do that. Where are any "Jewish lobbies" arguing that Israel now has a right to disproportiantely bomb Hezbollah due to Australia's listing of the entire group as terrorists? Where is anybody saying this?

Hezbollah in general are listed as terrorist organisations already by the US, UK, Canada, and a bunch of other countries, Australia changed it to be in line with their security partners. I don't know how you call their "civilian political and social branches" legitimate. There seems to be no great separation between them and they are considered terrorists by our key allies as well as the Arab League.

There Is No Distinct Hezbollah 'Military Wing,' So Why Ban It?

Focusing on just one facet of Hezbollah is a political distinction of convenience that will limit efforts to target the group's finances, but the EU ban is still a useful step.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

 

[jason_recliner]

It’s not justification it’s fact.

What's the point you're trying to make?

 

[Demons09]

What's the point you're trying to make?

I’ve made the point a few tines i’m not going to explain it to you read through the previous posts.

 

[jason_recliner]

Chose to retaliate?

You do realise the only reason Hamas stopped killing Israeli's is because the IDF killed all the ones in Israel.

Good idea, let terrorists continue to launch rockets against you...

Of course you highlight the option that would have resulted in the most IDF casualties.... and even more Gazan deaths.



No defence is impenetrable. It just buys time.

Or you know Hamas could have just not done it.





I note that Hamas does not distinguish between civilian and militant casualties. Either do you.

Most of them will be. Very hard for terrorists to terrorise without their infrastructure and weapons.

When in history has that ever not been the trend?

Hamas and UNRWA have done a fantastic job of that without the need for Israeli intervention.

As opposed to just being bombed and attacked without retaliating?




Israel has just rewritten the book on eliminating terrorists.

It has done in three weeks what the US has been able to do in over 40 years.

You and I both know that Islamist extremists will never stop until they are dead. ***

Eh?

 

[sdfc]

Ok sorry if I misrepresented your reply but I’m absolutely sure you don’t know better than Israel what is the best response to terrorists, that don’t play by Penny Wong’s roolz and have promised to repeat October 7 “over and over again”. That wasn’t a throwaway line, it’s in their charter!

What would we (Australia) do if we suffered a similar attack? Would we do everything possible to destroy the threat? I would hope so!

Stop pretending this conflict started on 7 Oct last year.

A rogue organisation does not play by rules and should not be negotiated with (never negotiate with terrorists is a long-held truism) or appeased in any way with “deals”. These are regarded by terrorist regimes as weakness.

The Israeli government appears to be a rogue organisation.

Let’s face it, we can’t imagine what it’s like over there, we don’t appreciate the magnitude of the consequences. The threat is much wider than just to Israel. It’s easy to oversimplify, we see the answers so clearly! Why can’t they?

Reply was to sherb

Let's face it, if the Israelis hadn't treated the Palestinians like shit for decades 7 October wouldn't have happened.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Australia's classification of all of Hezbollah as terrorist organisation in no way at all, ever, in any world, changes Israel's legal responsibilities under IHL. You can call Hezbollah terrorists, invaders or freedom fighters and it changes nothing.

I don't know why you continue to uphold IHL as if it has any practical meaning whatsoever.

Israel do not give a **** about IHL. Israel care about publicity, narrative and opinion. They care about their support in the United States. The Hasbara strategy was created last time they invaded Lebanon, when their massacres were televised for the first time in the US. There was no Hezbollah then, no Hamas.

“It doesn't matter if justice is on your side. You have to depict your position as just.”​

That's a Bibi special.

I realise you said "pseudo-legal", but it doesn't even do that. Where are any "Jewish lobbies" arguing that Israel now has a right to disproportiantely bomb Hezbollah due to Australia's listing of the entire group as terrorists? Where is anybody saying this?

It's the targetting of civilians I'm referring to.

Israel doesn't need to make this particular argument directly. They already have established in the minds of people everywhere - this thread is a great example - that half of Lebanon are firing ballistic missiles from their trucks, any Lebanese resistance to Israel's invasion is now terrorism, and Israel's intense air strike campaign on Beirut, killing medical workers and journalists again, is just self defence.

The organisational listing gives people like the denizens of this thread the misguided belief that anyone linked with Hezbollah become legal targets for Israeli extra-judicial killings, as I believe we have seen proclaimed here. Do you need me to give you a list of social media posts on twitter? They have a mindless army of zombies running defence for them.

Hezbollah in general are listed as terrorist organisations already by the US, UK, Canada, and a bunch of other countries, Australia changed it to be in line with their security partners. I don't know how you call their "civilian political and social branches" legitimate. There seems to be no great separation between them and they are considered terrorists by our key allies

Hezbollah are a political party in Lebanon, representing a significant Shia population. They run civil institutions, schools, medical facilities. Members performing political, religious, social, medical, agricultural functions cannot be equated to an armed force. Extrajudicial killings of these people are war crimes. It sounds like you disagree?

as well as the Arab League.

Incorrect.

 

[Jazny]

Hezbollah are a political party in Lebanon, representing a significant Shia population. They run civil institutions, schools, medical facilities. Members performing political, religious, social, medical, agricultural functions cannot be equated to an armed force. Extrajudicial killings of these people are war crimes. It sounds like you disagree?

They have to be combatants or civilians directly participating in hostilities, or they aren't legal targets. You can't just label a non-state actor as terrorists and then have free reign to kill them all. The Australian decision to label Hezbollah a terrorist organization has nothing to do with the legality of armed combat against them. The same rules apply regardless.

Whether it's a war crime to target the people you listed only depends on if they could be considered to be directly participating in hostilities at the time, not on the mere association with a terrorist group so defined by their enemies.

Incorrect.

View attachment 2133003

That's from this year, it was true at the time of the 2021 listing of Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. But fair as I didn't use past tense and was unaware of the Arab League recently re-opening talks with them for what that's worth.

I don't know why you continue to uphold IHL as if it has any practical meaning whatsoever.

Really? In a thread about war crimes, when you are arguing various Jewish lobbyist groups are influencing Australian foreign relations and security decisions in order to give pseudo-legal justification for war crimes, you don't know why I "continue to uphold IHL" as though it holds practical meaning? What are we even talking about then?

Israel doesn't need to make this particular argument directly. They already have established in the minds of people everywhere - this thread is a great example - that half of Lebanon are firing ballistic missiles from their trucks, any Lebanese resistance to Israel's invasion is now terrorism, and Israel's intense air strike campaign on Beirut, killing medical workers and journalists again, is just self defence.

The organisational listing gives people like the denizens of this thread the misguided belief that anyone linked with Hezbollah become legal targets for Israeli extra-judicial killings, as I believe we have seen proclaimed here. Do you need me to give you a list of social media posts on twitter? They have a mindless army of zombies running defence for them.

I'm not sure how these people you call "mindless zombies" would have a more nuanced view if only Australia didn't take the decision to list all of Hezbollah as terrorists rather than just the military wing... Was Australia wrong to designate Hezbollah as a terrorist group in your opinion?

 

[Festerz]

A voice of reasonableness and justice from the Jewish Council of Australia.

 

[ZEV]

This is weird. Why does Israel keep saying 1200 dead on Oct 7, when approx 500 of them were military?

Why doesn't Israel distinguish between civilian and military casualties?

They do?

It's all here, some in infographic form to help visual learners like yourself.

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-civilian-casualties

Why do you continue to propagate misinformation?

 

[Jazny]

They do?

It's all here, some in infographic form to help visual learners like yourself.

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-civilian-casualties

Why do you continue to propagate misinformation?

Insane that one of the most obviously false posts in here got so many likes Those likes on GP's post are a wall of shame.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

They do?

It's all here, some in infographic form to help visual learners like yourself.

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-civilian-casualties

Why do you continue to propagate misinformation?

Hidden away on some obscure website. Has it been verified?

Maybe they should do this on TV or social media?

 

[ZEV]

Hidden away on some obscure website. Has it been verified?

Maybe they should do this on TV or social media?

Israeli government website, hardly obscure.

Names, ages, pictures listed and verified.

If you care to visit the Times of Israel there are biographical pieces on the individual victims.

Your last point is interesting. On multiple occasions you have declared the IDF and Israeli government terrorists. Yet you do not make the suggestion that declared terrorist organizations list and categorize their killed people on social media.

There is a term for people that apply double standards toward Israel….

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Israeli government website, hardly obscure.

Names, ages, pictures listed and verified.

If you care to visit the Times of Israel there are biographical pieces on the individual victims.

Your last point is interesting. On multiple occasions you have declared the IDF and Israeli government terrorists. Yet you do not make the suggestion that declared terrorist organizations list and categorize their killed people on social media.

There is a term for people that apply double standards toward Israel….

I'm pretty sure Israel blew up the Hamas social media intern. Not sure who I could direct the enquiry to?

 

[jason_recliner]

ABC is publishing much fewer reports on Israeli war crimes against Gazans in the last few weeks or so.

 

[Kurve]

ABC is publishing much fewer reports on Israeli war crimes against Gazans in the last few weeks or so.

The IDF may be easing up in Gaza to focus elsewhere. They're active in Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and potentially have Iran in their sights.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The IDF may be easing up in Gaza to focus elsewhere. They're active in Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and potentially have Iran in their sights.

Fighting off attackers on six fronts (don’t forget Iraq) but they should respond proportionately…

 

[Kurve]

Fighting off attackers on six fronts (don’t forget Iraq) but they should respond proportionately…

It's an expectation Dogs.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

They do?

It's all here, some in infographic form to help visual learners like yourself.

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-civilian-casualties

Why do you continue to propagate misinformation?

Bibis speeches always have him claiming 1200 people were murdered. Deliberately misleading.

Babies burnt alive, r*ped and mutilated women. Any news on that Israeli investigation? I note the 'We Will Dance Again' film recently released doesn't address any sexual violence? Seems a big omission?

The IDF may be easing up in Gaza to focus elsewhere. They're active in Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and potentially have Iran in their sights.

They are not easing up - they bombed a mosque turned shelter housing refugees.

The claim of course it was a Hamas Command and Control Centre. Bibi reckons they've destoryed 23 of 24 Hama battalions - I'm not sure how many commanders they have left, or what they're commanding.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Also starting a huge operation again in north Gaza, telling everyone north of Netzarim corridor to evacuate once again.

Word is this time may be long term total siege on Gaza city.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

It's an expectation Dogs.

But what is it?

If Iran used a nuclear weapon, would that be proportionate?

I heartily disagree that anyone has the right to tell Israel how to survive.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Looks like the Eiland Plan has kicked off. Forced population transfer, scorched earth extermination by starvation of anyone who remains. Likely a permanent military occupation in Gaza.

A plan to liquidate northern Gaza is gaining steam

As Israeli ministers, generals, and academics bay for a new phase in the war, this is how Operation Starvation and Extermination would look.

www.972mag.com

Retired general's 'siege plan' for Gaza sparks debate - opinion

'The Military Generals Plan' proposes imposing a siege on northern Gaza to force Hamas’s surrender, but lacks strategic depth. It relies solely on force, ignoring diplomacy and risks.

www.jpost.com

 

[Demons09]

But what is it?

If Iran used a nuclear weapon, would that be proportionate?

I heartily disagree that anyone has the right to tell Israel how to survive.

I think they’ll target the regime like they did with Hezbolah.

 

[Jazny]

But what is it?

An important part of international law. The expected civilian casualties and property damage from an attack must be proportionate to the anticipated military advantage. It is a case by case standard that must always apply to commander's decision making. It should be one of the things that separates terrorists from responsible states. Terrorists don't care about proportionality, in fact, the more damage to civilians the better normally as far as terrorists are concerned.

It's an incredibly bad thing to hear if someone is arguing one side or another shouldn't be held to this standard.