Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[Ghost Patrol]

Iran using Hezbollah as a proxy:




Israel have now suffered attacks with genocidal intent from 4 directions surrounding it (Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah & Iran itself). Most nations would view that as a coordinated attack on their statehood.


Iran's the common denominator here. They need to be hauled in front of a war crimes commission alongside Israel and their proxies. There's no attempts at peace by Iran, they don't even provide anything except offensive weapons for Hamas/Hezbollah/Houthis.

Israel aren't completely innocent on the Northern border either

 

[Zidane98]

Israel aren't completely innocent on the Northern border either

No they are not. Doesn't change what Iran's doing and them being the instigator.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The horrific reality is this happens in pretty much all armed conflicts on both sides (aggressor / invader and those responding to them).


Things would be much better off if a war wasn't sparked in the first place. There needs to be a framework in place to prevent such a war being declared again and if it does a path towards de-escalation to protect innocent civilians on both sides.

Nice theory, but when one side has it written into its charter that the other side must be exterminated “from the river to the sea” and pledges to attempt to do so at every opportunity, it’s slightly unreasonable to expect any kind of “framework” to iron out the differences.

And when the side that massacred 1400 people without warning has no regard for its own people’s safety and well-being, I doubt they are interested in any framework other than their own.

 

[Zidane98]

Nice theory, but when one side has it written into its charter that the other side must be exterminated “from the river to the sea” and pledges to attempt to do so at every opportunity, it’s slightly unreasonable to expect any kind of “framework” to iron out the differences.

And when the side that massacred 1400 people without warning has no regard for its own people’s safety and well-being, I doubt they are interested in any framework other than their own.

The framework is a united Palestine. All that aside it still doesn't give Israel the right to raze Gaza to the ground.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Nice theory, but when one side has it written into its charter that the other side must be exterminated “from the river to the sea” and pledges to attempt to do so at every opportunity, it’s slightly unreasonable to expect any kind of “framework” to iron out the differences.

And when the side that massacred 1400 people without warning has no regard for its own people’s safety and well-being, I doubt they are interested in any framework other than their own.

This is the framework that you are attempting to provide cover for.

This is your charter.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The framework is a united Palestine. All that aside it still doesn't give Israel the right to raze Gaza to the ground.

Nice tidy solution to soothe Western sensibilities but this is the Middle East. Won’t happen I’m afraid. If Hamas surrender, Gaza won’t have to be razed to the ground. But it suits Hamas that it is. They’ve said so.

 

[Zidane98]

Nice tidy solution to soothe Western sensibilities but this is the Middle East. Won’t happen I’m afraid. If Hamas surrender, Gaza won’t have to be razed to the ground. But it suits Hamas that it is. They’ve said so.

Yes it does so it's about time Israel find a different way to get rid of Hamas. There is no real pont to further military action against Hamas and there is simply an unacceptable cost to Gazan civilians.

Alliances with Arab league nations, giving back settler territory in the west bank etc.

Understand why Israel wants to end Hamas, any person looking at the conflict from a neutral position would.

 

[faible]

Nice theory, but when one side has it written into its charter that the other side must be exterminated “from the river to the sea” and pledges to attempt to do so at every opportunity, it’s slightly unreasonable to expect any kind of “framework” to iron out the differences.

And when the side that massacred 1400 people without warning has no regard for its own people’s safety and well-being, I doubt they are interested in any framework other than their own.

The UN has said only one side has committed crimes against humanity FYI.

 

[faible]

If Hamas surrender, Gaza won’t have to be razed to the ground.

Look what you made me do is abuser language.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Yes it does so it's about time Israel find a different way to get rid of Hamas. There is no real pont to further military action against Hamas and there is simply an unacceptable cost to Gazan civilians.

Alliances with Arab league nations, giving back settler territory in the west bank etc.

Understand why Israel wants to end Hamas, any person looking at the conflict from a neutral position would.

So what would you suggest?

Not having a shot at you, particularly, but what right does anyone have to tell Jews how to defend themselves?

 

[faible]

but what right does anyone have to tell Jews how to defend themselves?

I'd say 'don't commit all of war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of IHL and IHRL' is a reasonable starting point for 'ways to defend oneself'.

But apparently you disagree and there's simply no limit to what Israel can do in 'defence' of themselves, even when that involves occupying someone else's lands.

Also, let's be clear here, Israel =/= Jews no matter how much Netanyahu tries to tell you they're one and the same.

Israel is a Nation State. With the same responsibilities as any other nation state. I'm sure you wouldn't support China, Russia, North Korea, Iran or Saudi Arabia doing these things to others, would you?

 

[Zidane98]

So what would you suggest?

Not having a shot at you, particularly, but what right does anyone have to tell Jews how to defend themselves?

I don't have any right to tell anyone how to fight a war. I'm just putting forward what is needed to achieve peace which is best for all parties.

 

[Zidane98]

I'd say 'don't commit all of war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of IHL and IHRL' is a reasonable starting point for 'ways to defend oneself'.

But apparently you disagree and there's simply no limit to what Israel can do in 'defence' of themselves, even when that involves occupying someone else's lands.

Also, let's be clear here, Israel =/= Jews no matter how much Netanyahu tries to tell you they're one and the same.

Israel is a Nation State. With the same responsibilities as any other nation state. I'm sure you wouldn't support China, Russia, North Korea, Iran or Saudi Arabia doing these things to others, would you?

The easiest way to ensure war crimes are not committed is ensure there is never a war in the first place. Before you respond I know you'll go down the Oct 7 declaration of war on Israel by Hamas didn't happen in a vacuum. Which is true.

It is also true that every time Israel has accepted peace and a fully independent Palestinian state that offer has been refused in lieu of surrounding actors / states declaring war on Israel to try and eliminate it.

Both sides need to get back to where they were in the mid to late 00s. Israel had just disengaged from Gaza, offered full statehood to Palestine by withdrawing from 93% of Palestinian territory and offering up 5.8% of Israeli territory in exchange for settlements that were to be annexed to Israel under the agreement. Hamas had yet to ramp up its terror operations, it had only just chased Fatah out of Gaza.

I'm sure civilians on both sides would love to go back to such a deal to prevent further wars, civilian deaths and subsequent war crimes.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So what would you suggest?

Not having a shot at you, particularly, but what right does anyone have to tell Jews how to defend themselves?

Pretending you cant tell the difference between self defence and genocide.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I'd say 'don't commit all of war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of IHL and IHRL' is a reasonable starting point for 'ways to defend oneself'.

But apparently you disagree and there's simply no limit to what Israel can do in 'defence' of themselves, even when that involves occupying someone else's lands.

Also, let's be clear here, Israel =/= Jews no matter how much Netanyahu tries to tell you they're one and the same.

Israel is a Nation State. With the same responsibilities as any other nation state. I'm sure you wouldn't support China, Russia, North Korea, Iran or Saudi Arabia doing these things to others, would you?

So, a "nation state" has "responsibilities" and must observe rules. But not a terrorist organisation.

Is Hamas following "the rules"? What are their responsibilities? I would have thought as the ruling body it's to protect their people but apparently not. They've admitted to using civilian deaths to promote their cause. Is their stated aim to exterminate every Jew and destroy Israel not genocide? Where are the demands from the UN (and you) to return the hostages?

It's the Jewish homeland, no matter how much you want to pretend it's nothing to do with Jew-hatred. They must and will use whatever force necessary to end the constant threat of annihilation that has plagued them for centuries. Can you even imagine how that feels?

I don't recall this level of uproar over China annexing Tibet and displacing 2 million people, but perhaps I'm wrong, you might have marched and shouted slogans and posted on BigFooty.

Nobody minds if women are stoned, imprisoned, executed in Iran for not wearing the prescribed dress. The UN rewards them by appointing them to the Human Rights Committee.

North Korea starves its people, shoots rockets over Japan, are you silent?

We can see how Russia views the NATO push east.

Why do people from the smug safety of the other side of the world feel so righteous to impose grandiose unworkable conditions for others, in an unimaginable situation?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I don't have any right to tell anyone how to fight a war. I'm just putting forward what is needed to achieve peace which is best for all parties.

That would take agreement from both sides, which seems impossible. Reality is one side wants to kill, the other wants not to be killed. One side loves life, the other loves death, they boast about it.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So, a "nation state" has "responsibilities" and must observe rules. But not a terrorist organisation.

Is Hamas following "the rules"? What are their responsibilities? I would have thought as the ruling body it's to protect their people but apparently not. They've admitted to using civilian deaths to promote their cause. Is their stated aim to exterminate every Jew and destroy Israel not genocide? Where are the demands from the UN (and you) to return the hostages?

It's the Jewish homeland, no matter how much you want to pretend it's nothing to do with Jew-hatred. They must and will use whatever force necessary to end the constant threat of annihilation that has plagued them for centuries. Can you even imagine how that feels?

I don't recall this level of uproar over China annexing Tibet and displacing 2 million people, but perhaps I'm wrong, you might have marched and shouted slogans and posted on BigFooty.

Nobody minds if women are stoned, imprisoned, executed in Iran for not wearing the prescribed dress. The UN rewards them by appointing them to the Human Rights Committee.

North Korea starves its people, shoots rockets over Japan, are you silent?

We can see how Russia views the NATO push east.

Why do people from the smug safety of the other side of the world feel so righteous to impose grandiose unworkable conditions for others, in an unimaginable situation?

Do you even realise what you just did?

You directly compared Israel with China, Iran, North Korea and Russia. You obviously see them as Israel’s peers.
It’s basically a list of pariah/rogue states.

 

[Zidane98]

That would take agreement from both sides, which seems impossible. Reality is one side wants to kill, the other wants not to be killed. One side loves life, the other loves death, they boast about it.

It does take agreement from all sides. Israel needs to obtain that agreement in the interests of peace. As does the state of Palestine.

 

[faible]

So, a "nation state" has "responsibilities" and must observe rules. But not a terrorist organisation.

Is Hamas following "the rules"? What are their responsibilities? I would have thought as the ruling body it's to protect their people but apparently not. They've admitted to using civilian deaths to promote their cause. Is their stated aim to exterminate every Jew and destroy Israel not genocide? Where are the demands from the UN (and you) to return the hostages?

They've also been accused of war crimes and violations of IHL and IHRL by the UN. So yes they must observe rules.

It's the Jewish homeland, no matter how much you want to pretend it's nothing to do with Jew-hatred. They must and will use whatever force necessary to end the constant threat of annihilation that has plagued them for centuries. Can you even imagine how that feels?

It was a land of non-Judaism a lot longer than a Jewish one. Weird argument for genocide.

I don't recall this level of uproar over China annexing Tibet and displacing 2 million people, but perhaps I'm wrong, you might have marched and shouted slogans and posted on BigFooty.

Nobody minds if women are stoned, imprisoned, executed in Iran for not wearing the prescribed dress. The UN rewards them by appointing them to the Human Rights Committee.

North Korea starves its people, shoots rockets over Japan, are you silent?

Seems like an irrelevant whataboutism to me.

I'm opposed to war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of IHL and IHRL. By anyone.

We can see how Russia views the NATO push east.

That's not how NATO works.

Why do people from the smug safety of the other side of the world feel so righteous to impose grandiose unworkable conditions for others, in an unimaginable situation?

Why are you arguing in favour of genocide from the smug safety of the other side of the world?

 

[faible]

Reality is one side wants to kill

Is that the one who's killed more, or less civilians?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

They've also been accused of war crimes and violations of IHL and IHRL by the UN. So yes they must observe rules.

But they're not. And no one is protesting about it.

It was a land of non-Judaism a lot longer than a Jewish one. Weird argument for genocide.

That's debatable. How many thousands of years do you want to go back? What parts of the Middle East have Jews always lived in and been expelled from? Where did the Philistines come from?

Seems like an irrelevant whataboutism to me.

I'm opposed to war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of IHL and IHRL. By anyone.

Good. But that solves nothing.

That's not how NATO works.

Why are you arguing in favour of genocide from the smug safety of the other side of the world?

Where did you get the idea I was in favour of genocide? Israel are not committing genocide. Or if they are, they are doing a poor job of it. Still nearly 2 million Palestinians to go. Half the people killed were terrorists but Hamas are not admitting that. Even the UN are disputing their figures.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Is that the one who's killed more, or less civilians?

That's the one saying from the river to the sea. Is this not clear enough for you?

 

[faible]

Where did you get the idea I was in favour of genocide? Israel are not committing genocide. Or if they are, they are doing a poor job of it. Still nearly 2 million Palestinians to go. Half the people killed were terrorists but Hamas are not admitting that. Even the UN are disputing their figures.

I see you don't understand genocide.

There also hasn't been a finding on genocide yet.

They have already been accused by the UN of multiple crimes against the civilian population though, which you seem to be defending as... fine?

The second part of your post demonstrates a clear lack of understanding as to what the UN actually did in regards to the death number breakdown. Which has been explained quite clearly a number of times.

And that you consider 'half' the people killed as terrorists, means I assume you consider every single male killed a terrorist, as that's (from memory) where Israel pulls that figure from. And to be clear, it's Israel that uses the figure that way, no one else.

 

[faible]

That's the one saying from the river to the sea. Is this not clear enough for you?

You didn't answer the question.

Is it the side who's killed more, or less, civilians?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I see you don't understand genocide.

There also hasn't been a finding on genocide yet.

They have already been accused by the UN of multiple crimes against the civilian population, which you seem to be defending as... fine?

But China. But North Korea. But Russia.