Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[DapperDon]

You just don't like the answers I give.

I'd like any answer really

Give it a go, I believe in you!

 

[jason_recliner]

Where did you get this figure? I have seen Iran ranked as high as top 14 for military spending in the world according to the Stockholm Institute for Peace Research in 2022. But they also fluctuate depending on who is compiling it and how. I have never seen a figure anywhere near as low as 1bn, though thats close to what they spend on proxies every year.

Seems at least someone is arguing that jason_recliner

Typo sorry - $US15bn. But that seems to be a max figure in recent years, so something like 50% of Israel.

 

[Jazny]

Typo sorry - $US15bn. But that seems to be a max figure in recent years, so something like 50% of Israel.

True, but Israel's military spending also rose by 24% recent years due to the war in Gaza. Israel is a wealthier country, but it's not ridiculous amount of disparity over all. If Iran was involved in a full scale ground invasion I imagine they could bump up their spending significantly too.

Here is a report from 2022 before the Israel-Hamas war began, I don't know how accurate it is but its from SIPRI:

Global Defense Spending Reaches New Record; Iran Ranked In Top 15, Says New Report

Global defense spending rose again in 2021, topping $2 trillion for the first time as Russia beefed up its military capabilities ahead of its invasion of Ukraine, a new report said on April 25.

www.rferl.org

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I don't recall latouf being fired for her ability. I thought a group of lobbyists took umbrage to her personal opinions and wanted her silenced. Not sure if the case has gone to court yet.

Interesting take. She was asked not to post her opinions on social media as they went against the ABC’s (admittedly mostly selectively enforced) policy of journalistic impartiality and she refused.

How to stuff up a five-day gig. You’re not more important than your employer.

 

[Jazny]

I'd like any answer really

Give it a go, I believe in you!

Did you have a question?

 

[jason_recliner]

True, but Israel's military spending also rose by 24% recent years due to the war in Gaza. Israel is a wealthier country, but it's not ridiculous amount of disparity over all. If Iran was involved in a full scale ground invasion I imagine they could bump up their spending significantly too.

Here is a report from 2022 before the Israel-Hamas war began, I don't know how accurate it is but its from SIPRI:

Global Defense Spending Reaches New Record; Iran Ranked In Top 15, Says New Report

Global defense spending rose again in 2021, topping $2 trillion for the first time as Russia beefed up its military capabilities ahead of its invasion of Ukraine, a new report said on April 25.

www.rferl.org

View attachment 2153205

Yes, that is very similar. I went off World Bank data.

 

[Jazny]

Yes, that is very similar. I went off World Bank data.

It's not really important enough for me to take the time to look into how they calculate it and know which figure is more accurate. I think it's fair to say Israel is a richer country, particularly per capita, but they are relatively similar on military spending. It's not a wild disparity.

 

[DapperDon]

Did you have a question?

Have you stopped with the baseless racism/anti-semetic calls? Or do you still plan on using it as a fallback in the future (unjust, feel free to call out actual calls)?

 

[Jazny]

Have you stopped with the baseless racism/anti-semetic calls? Or do you still plan on using it as a fallback in the future (unjust, feel free to call out actual calls)?

Considering one person somewhat walked back what they said and I appreciate that, and the others haven't nor have given me any reason to believe I am wrong, I will continue to call it out when I see it.

Are you guys going to keep posting baseless antisemitic conspiracy theories?

 

[Kurve]

No, that's not correct. Undue influence can be influence that is not in the interests of Australia and Australians. It can also be influence that is excessive without being dominant. It can also be influence excessively targeting one or more aspects of government/policy with outcomes negative/detrimental to the majority of Australians.

If there's success at influencing policy to negative outcomes for the majority, I'd suggest that's achieved a dominance.

 

[leon123]

If there's success at influencing policy to negative outcomes for the majority, I'd suggest that's achieved a dominance.

There are numerous and accepted examples of lobbying that has been successful at the detriment of the majority. Debate, re what is a negative to the majority is debateable, personal and ultimately who benefits and whom dont

 

[Kurve]

There are numerous and accepted examples of lobbying that has been successful at the detriment of the majority. Debate, re what is a negative to the majority is debateable, personal and ultimately who benefits and whom dont

Sure, mining, tobbacco etc as big business but the Israel lobby, how are they influencing policy now and in particular our government's response to the conflict?

 

[leon123]

Sure, mining, tobbacco etc as big business but the Israel lobby, how are they influencing policy now and in particular our government's response to the conflict?

I would not know and, id guess nobody on a forum like this would.

Is it plausible, is there potential, influenced outcomes.. always potential. But no one can say with any sense of certainty.... pointless debate in my opinion. Focus on outcomes... ie peace, no bombings and free nations and measure steps of 3rd nations how they are contributing to that outcome.

How is australia contributing to this at the moment... practically

 

[DapperDon]

Considering one person somewhat walked back what they said and I appreciate that, and the others haven't nor have given me any reason to believe I am wrong, I will continue to call it out when I see it.

Are you guys going to keep posting baseless antisemitic conspiracy theories?

Please point out what was anti-semetic about my post about Palestinians getting treated poorly when Israel began.

Understanding of course, Palestinians are Semites

I eagerly await your highly thought response

 

[treeebeard]

Please, read it again.

According to the article, most attempts at interfering with journalists work, who were based in Israel, by the pro-Israel lobby were rebuffed.

This doesn't demonstrate undue influence over the media. To allege undue influence over our government, you'd have to accept that the Israel lobby is the dominant party over our democratically elected political representatives.

I think it's you, who needs to re read it. There are multiple examples of harassment and censorship of journalists work.

 

[Jazny]

Please point out what was anti-semetic about my post about Palestinians getting treated poorly when Israel began.

Understanding of course, Palestinians are Semites

I eagerly await your highly thought response

Antisemitic is a word that means hatred, prejudice or discrimination specifically against Jews.

It's never been about allowing them to relocate to the land, just how it was done. Do I think it should change now? No, I don't. I do wish however they would stop killing their neighbours children in the name of defence.

Of course you didn't understand this, as in your eyes the brown people don't count as people and don't need the land they were living in. Which is why you never condenm settlers or the IDF.

There are two glaring things you get wrong that are borderline antisemitic. You are playing into a race realist take that doesn't really apply by arguing that there is some significant racial difference between Jews and Palestinians.

"Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences"

The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations - PubMed

The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It is laughable when westerners try to apply this strange racial idea on to the conflicts between Palestinians and Israel/Jews. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between most Jewish Israelis and most Arabs from the region. The majority of Jewish Israelis descend from long lines of people that have lived in the middle east for generations.

You would barely struggle to get better than random chance if you tried to identify who is Jewish and who is Palestinian if you had to guess from a line up, especially if you had no hints from attire or accents. Some Jews do look more of European origin, but there are Palestinians who do too. ZEV can probably tell you more about how wrong or right I am about this. I know if I look at photos of people from the region I can't see much difference at all.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wealthy Europeans deciding to create Israel is a pretty wild way of framing it. Jews were persecuted throughout history wherever they went. The idea of establishing a Jewish homeland was more from intellectuals like Herzl who weren't particularly rich. For many early zionists migration was out of necessity, some chose to migrate to what is now Israel out of the wish to establish a home in their traditional homeland. The first Aaliyah was mostly poor Jewish immigrants fleeing persecution from Eastern Europe and Yemen.

If you are reffering to the decade before the establishment of Israel, what major event in Europe happened that might make Jews, wealthy or poor, think a Jewish state in what is now Israel would be a good idea? Pretty hard to miss it.

I don't know if I would call what you said antisemitic necessarily, but framing this as "some wealthy Europeans had an idea of a Jewish state" is a pretty inaccurate, oversimplified and completely downplays the real horrific reasons that Jews wanted a home state. It's definitely a problematic way to put it. I mean, even framing them as wealthy and European rather than just Jewish intellectuals in Europe might hint at how you think about Jews. It feels like you get your whole narrative of history from grifters who probably are antisemitic.

 

[treeebeard]

Interesting take. She was asked not to post her opinions on social media as they went against the ABC’s (admittedly mostly selectively enforced) policy of journalistic impartiality and she refused.

How to stuff up a five-day gig. You’re not more important than your employer.

That's up for debate in court soon. Interesting that the selective enforcement happened after a certain pro israel lobby group got involved.

 

[Kurve]

I think it's you, who needs to re read it. There are multiple examples of harassment and censorship of journalists work.

Making complaints, pestering and attempting to pull strings for favourable press is not exclusive to the Israel lobby or the jewish people and imo it doesn't prove a powerful or undue influence over the media.

Lyons was based in Jerusalem for six years, they don't appear to have done a very good job of getting rid of him.

 

[DapperDon]

Antisemitic is a word that means hatred, prejudice or discrimination specifically against Jews.

There are two glaring things you get wrong that are borderline antisemitic. You are playing into a race realist take that doesn't really apply by arguing that there is some significant racial difference between Jews and Palestinians.

"Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences"

The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations - PubMed

The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It is laughable when westerners try to apply this strange racial idea on to the conflicts between Palestinians and Israel/Jews. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between most Jewish Israelis and most Arabs from the region. The majority of Jewish Israelis descend from long lines of people that have lived in the middle east for generations. You would barely struggle to get better than random chance if you tried to identify who is Jewish and who is Palestinian if you had to guess from a line up, especially if you had no hints from attire or accents. Some Jews do look more of European origin, but there are Palestinians who do too. ZEV can probably tell you more about how wrong or right I am about this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wealthy Europeans deciding to create Israel is a pretty wild way of framing it. Jews were persecuted throughout history wherever they went. The idea of establishing a Jewish homeland was more from intellectuals like Herzl who weren't particularly rich. For many early zionists migration was out of necessity, some chose to migrate to what is now Israel out of the wish to establish a home in their traditional homeland. The first Aaliyah was mostly poor Jewish immigrants fleeing persecution from Eastern Europe and Yemen.

If you are reffering to the decade before the establishment of Israel, what major event in Europe happened that might make Jews, wealthy or poor, think a Jewish state in what is now Israel would be a good idea? Pretty hard to miss it.

I don't know if I would call what you said antisemitic necessarily, but framing this as "some wealthy Europeans had an idea of a Jewish state" is a pretty inaccurate, oversimplified and completely downplays the real horrific reasons that Jews wanted a home state. It's definitely a problematic way to put it. I mean, even framing them as wealthy and European rather than just Jewish intellectuals in Europe might hint at how you think about Jews. It feels like you get your whole narrative of history from grifters who probably are antisemitic.

Fair post, and my Wealthy Europeans line was wild as it was really aimed at Rothschilds bottomless vault which went a long way in establishing the concept of Israel. Also as someone who grew up the next suburb of Caulfield in Melbourne South-East I have many of friends who are Jewish, some who agree with what is happening and others who are very much opposed. What is great is when I or they speak their mind they never pull out the anti-semitism card.

It's a shame many here are so keen to drop it as a form of argument, much like Netanyahu wants.

 

[ZEV]

Also as someone who grew up the next suburb of Caulfield in Melbourne South-East I

Which one?

 

[leon123]

Making complaints, pestering and attempting to pull strings for favourable press is not exclusive to the Israel lobby or the jewish people and imo it doesn't prove a powerful or undue influence over the media.

Lyons was based in Jerusalem for six years, they don't appear to have done a very good job of getting rid of him.

Is what you are saying, correct me of im wrong. Others do it so its ok

 

[DapperDon]

Which one?

Nice try Diddy

 

[Kurve]

Is what you are saying, correct me of im wrong. Others do it so its ok

No I personally don't like the lobbying element, at all.

 

[ZEV]

It is laughable when westerners try to apply this strange racial idea on to the conflicts between Palestinians and Israel/Jews. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between most Jewish Israelis and most Arabs from the region. The majority of Jewish Israelis descend from long lines of people that have lived in the middle east for generations. You would barely struggle to get better than random chance if you tried to identify who is Jewish and who is Palestinian if you had to guess from a line up, especially if you had no hints from attire or accents. Some Jews do look more of European origin, but there are Palestinians who do too. @ZEV can probably tell you more about how wrong or right I am about this.

You can have Jews who have European backgrounds that tan up so good

You can have Israeli jews who have never left once who need to wear 50+ in winter

Same for Palestinians.

What tends to give it away for me though if i'm not sure is the attire or haircut. Generalising, young Palestinian men tend to favour the peaky blinders style haircuts and american brands.

We do tend not to focus on the purity of bloodlines as other posters do though

Fair post, and my Wealthy Europeans line was wild as it was really aimed at Rothschilds bottomless vault which went a long way in establishing the concept of Israel. Also as someone who grew up the next suburb of Caulfield in Melbourne South-East I have many of friends who are Jewish, some who agree with what is happening and others who are very much opposed. What is great is when I or they speak their mind they never pull out the anti-semitism card.

Maybe they are just sick and tired of hearing your shit. You must be a great mate. It's a shame many here are so keen to drop it as a form of argument, much like Netanyahu wants.

It's a shame many here are so keen to drop it as a form of argument, much like Netanyahu wants.

Say no to racism.

 

[leon123]

No I personally don't like the lobbying element, at all.

I personally think it is a necessity of life, always has, always will be. An advanced society would have this process, transparent