Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[treeebeard]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, that was a genuine question.

The original claim in this thread from Lunchlady was that Ashkenazi Jews stole Yemenite babies and gave them to white Jews to raise. I was just wondering if the way you worded that post was an indication you are not supporting that original claim or a claim of children necessarily being deliberately stolen. If you are, you are. Just wanted clarification.

Because the way you worded that post I would almost agree with because it doesn't seem to necessarily imply malice.

Stolen vs taken is just semantics. To steal something is to take it.

I don't think it's possible for someone to accidentally take someone's baby, tell them their baby died and give their baby to another family. So, yes these were deliberate actions. I suppose technically the Ashkenazi didn't steal the babies, they just received the stolen babies from the medical staff.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I notice a subtle change in language here. Why say "babies were taken" rather than babies were "stolen" or "kidnapped"? Is this an acknowledgement that the circumstances that some of these babies, such as Gil Grumbuam, ended up in adoption agencies may not have been due to a deliberate policy of permanently removing them from their parents and putting them up for adoption?

How much do you know about the conditions in these absorption camps and the 'baby homes' that the babies were removed to for medical care (or what they called medical care back then)? I have written a mini-essay on them just for my own base knowledge and understanding. Its horrific stuff. Given the conditions and abysmal record keeping as testified to by some of the nurses and directors, to me its tragic but not surprising that some children have ended up being raised by parents that weren't their own. The medical practices of the day were outrageous to say the least.

It's probably not cool to speculate too much about specific people, but there isn't any proof that the man in the NYT article was kidnapped or stolen in any way similar to how kids from the Stolen Generation were... and the NYT article doesn't directly allege it or provide evidence he was stolen in any way. It would be big news if there was a single documented case of this happening.

The other question is why are you guys wedded to the idea that specifically Ashkenazi Jews were stealing these babies? To me, with a total lack of evidence, and the racist implications and origin of this conspiracy, I think you guys should at least drop that and move to the more sensible and defensible claim that the Israeli government had a policy to remove them and put them up for adoption to more settled families.

If you guys want to believe the less racist version of the story, I don't really have a problem with you guys believing that. It doesn't seem to be true, but it's less problematic.

 

[Jazny]

Stolen vs taken is just semantics. To steal something is to take it.

But to take something isn't necessarily to steal it. Anyway I was just asking for clarification, so thanks for clarifying.

I don't think it's possible for someone to accidentally take someone's baby, tell them their baby died and give their baby to another family. So, yes these were deliberate actions.

Well, having researched the topic, I have to disagree. Given the conditions of the time, the era it happened in, the abysmal medical and administrative practices at the time, incompetence, how overwhelmed and understaffed they were, the complexities of the issues they were dealing with both environmental and disease, and the fact that Israel was a developing nation at the time, I think its extremely possible.

 

[ZEV]

Prosecutor Khan alleged of sexual misconduct toward and an attempt to silence a female lawyer. I wonder if this is the reason for the delay in the ICC ruling on the issuance of arrest warrants?

ICC prosecutor Khan denies sexual misconduct allegations

Karim Khan also asks for an immediate investigation into the allegations against him.

www.bbc.com

Zidane98 Must run in the family!

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Prosecutor Khan alleged of sexual misconduct toward and an attempt to silence a female lawyer. I wonder if this is the reason for the delay in the ICC ruling on the issuance of arrest warrants?

ICC prosecutor Khan denies sexual misconduct allegations

Karim Khan also asks for an immediate investigation into the allegations against him.

www.bbc.com

If you mean the reason for the delay is that the judges making the ruling will also be hit with allegations of a sexual nature, then yeah it probably is.

 

[Jazny]

If you mean the reason for the delay is that the judges making the ruling will also be hit with false allegations of a sexual nature, then yeah it probably is.

Are there any allegations of sexual assault you won't deny?

 

[Kurve]

If you mean the reason for the delay is that the judges making the ruling will also be hit with false allegations of a sexual nature, then yeah it probably is.

What reason do you have to claim the allegations are false?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Israel passes legislation banning the work of UNRWA on Israeli soil​

Two bills passed in the Knesset prohibit ties between Israeli officials and the agency, and strip its staff of their legal immunities.

The vote passed 92-10...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-29/israel-passes-legislation-restricting-unrwa/104529954

They've been trying to get this done for decades. UNRWA was created with the backing of the Americans in 1950, with the aim of implementing UN Res 194. The resolution was never going to be respected by Israel, so they needed this agency gone.

This has to violate the ICJ provisional measures, and will lead to many more unnecessary civilian deaths.

 

[Zidane98]

If you mean the reason for the delay is that the judges making the ruling will also be hit with false allegations of a sexual nature, then yeah it probably is.

How could you possibly suggest the allegations to be false at this stage?

Terrible post.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

What reason do you have to claim the allegations are false?

The allegations were made and sent to the IOM of the ICC in May. They were closed without an investigation as no complaint was made.

The aggrieved person was offered an IOM or an external agency investigation and they declined.

The fact this has been leaked is of course a major breach of confidentiality, and there will now be an investigation into all of this.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

How could you possibly suggest the allegations to be false at this stage?

Terrible post.

The fact there is no complaint being investigated?

 

[Kurve]

The allegations were made and sent to the IOM of the ICC in May. They were closed without an investigation as no complaint was made.

The aggrieved person was offered an IOM or an external agency investigation and they declined.

The fact this has been leaked is of course a major breach of confidentiality, and there will now be an investigation into all of this.

This lawyer who's made the complaint wanted the matter investigated by an external body? I can see no good reason to dismiss the allegations as false.

This is denied by Mr Khan, who has said he will co-operate fully with the inquiry.

The ICC has been under intense scrutiny following the prosecutor's request for arrest warrants linked to the conflict in Gaza.

This development comes after the president of the ICC's Assembly of States Parties (ASP), the court's management oversight and legislative body, revealed last week that the IOM had been in contact with the alleged victim, but said it was not in a position to proceed with an investigation at that stage.

According to the Guardian newspaper, the female lawyer who was subjected to unwanted sexual advances by Mr Khan, over an extended period of time and in various locations, had concerns about the IOM's competence and was not given adequate opportunity to have the matter investigated by an external body.

ASP President Paivi Kaukoranta referenced the IOM's 2023-2024 annual report, which states that, "following the conversation with the alleged victim, the IOM was not in a position to proceed with an investigation at that stage. Measures to safeguard everyone’s rights were recommended."

In an earlier statement, Mr Khan did not explicitly blame Israel, but did juxtapose the sexual misconduct allegations and efforts to undermine his position when he described this as "a moment in which myself and the International Criminal Court are subject to a wide range of attacks and threat".

But the sexual misconduct allegations are understood to pre-date his request for arrest warrants linked to the conflict in Gaza.

ICC prosecutor Khan denies sexual misconduct allegations

Karim Khan also asks for an immediate investigation into the allegations against him.

www.bbc.com

 

[Jazny]

I can see no good reason to dismiss the allegations as false.

Has that stopped him before? He is a misinformation machine.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Are there any allegations of sexual assault you won't deny?

I'm not denying there's allegations.

This lawyer who's made the complaint wanted the matter investigated by an external body?

Your article and the IOM report suggest they were offered an external investigation and declined?

I can see no good reason to dismiss the allegations as false.

Given Khan's complete denial of the accusations, no complaint being made, no investigation, all of this seeming to happen without the alleged victim being involved, and that this seems to have all been leaked by anonymous sources, I think it's just as valid to say they're false as it is to assume they're true?

Hey I'm not a lawyer - will go back and edit my post.

 

[Jazny]

I'm not denying there's allegations.

What do you think is generally meant by "x denies the allegation"? Do you think it means that X denies that there is an allegation?

We get it: you hate Israel, therefore the allegation is false. It's an awesome thought process you have.

 

[Jazny]

Given Khan's complete denial of the accusations, no complaint being made, no investigation, all of this seeming to happen without the alleged victim being involved, and that this seems to have all been leaked by anonymous sources, I think it's just as valid to say they're false as it is to assume they're true?

Who is assuming it's true? It's an allegation, it seems be credible and from someone who works with him. Nobody can know if it's true or false based on the available information, but it should be taken seriously and not just dismissed as false because you hate Israel.

 

[Kurve]

I'm not denying there's allegations.



Your article and the IOM report suggest they were offered an external investigation and declined?



Given Khan's complete denial of the accusations, no complaint being made, no investigation, all of this seeming to happen without the alleged victim being involved, and that this seems to have all been leaked by anonymous sources, I think it's just as valid to say they're false as it is to assume they're true?

Hey I'm not a lawyer - will go back and edit my post.

Other reports have her requesting an external probe, outside of the IOM.

That investigation will run it's course I imagine and while it does, should have no impact on the panel of judges considering the requests to issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu etc. IMO.

 

[ZEV]

Other reports have her requesting an external probe, outside of the IOM.

That investigation will run it's course I imagine and while it does, should have no impact on the panel of judges considering the requests to issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu etc. IMO.

Given that is has been acceptable to label politicians such as Netanyahu war criminals without anything but allegations is it acceptable to refer to Khan as a sex offender?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Other reports have her requesting an external probe, outside of the IOM.


That investigation will run it's course I imagine and while it does, should have no impact on the panel of judges considering the requests to issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu etc. IMO.

Given Israel's decade long history of spying, hacking, smearing and threatening the ICC, I would be surprised if they weren't hesitant.

Spying, hacking and intimidation: Israel’s nine-year ‘war’ on the ICC exposed

Exclusive: Investigation reveals how intelligence agencies tried to derail war crimes prosecution, with Netanyahu ‘obsessed’ with intercepts

www.theguardian.com

Surely legislating the ban of the primary UN agency tasked with supplying aid to Gaza runs contrary to the ICJ provisional measures, violates Israel's obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, and leaves the judges with no choice.

 

[ZEV]

Surely legislating the ban of the primary UN agency tasked with supplying aid to Gaza runs contrary to the ICJ provisional measures, violates Israel's obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, and leaves the judges with no choice.

Is UNRWA the only organization that can drive and unload trucks?

 

[jason_recliner]

Is UNRWA the only organization that can drive and unload trucks?

Do you believe that is their role?

 

[faible]

Given that is has been acceptable to label politicians such as Netanyahu war criminals without anything but allegations is it acceptable to refer to Khan as a sex offender?

Netanyahu is the PM of a country whose national 'defence' force is committing war crimes on a daily basis.

I'm gonna say it's a little bit different. But you keep on pretending otherwise.

 

[Kurve]

Given Israel's decade long history of spying, hacking, smearing and threatening the ICC, I would be surprised if they weren't hesitant.

The woman making the allegations is a lawyer, she'd be well aware of the trouble she's going to be in if it's proved she was making things up.

If the allegations are proved a complete fabrication at this level, she risks her job, bankruptcy and potentially her career.

If the allegations were false and of a more serious nature that resulted in charges, she'd be risking a prison term.

Still, I can't speak to the absolute truth of what went on there. Wait, see I guess.

 

[Jazny]

Is UNRWA the only organization that can drive and unload trucks?

Is there a reason UNRWA couldn't continue their work in Gaza if they are banned from operating within Israel's sovereign territory? I imagine it makes the process of coordination and vehicle inspections a lot harder, but nothing in Israel's ban would stop them from continuing their services afaik.