Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[Jazny]

So the IDF invaded French territory, took a French citizen and is now keeping him in Israeli territory?

France now have a right to self defence and I expect 200000 bombs dropped at any moment.

Imagine comparing a minor dispute between diplomats and police officers with October 7th The state of anti-Israelis.

 

[faible]

I suppose France is Hamas now?

Israeli police arrest French gendarmes in French-owned Jerusalem compound

Israeli police entered the Eleona church site, which France has claimed as its own since 1948, and briefly arrested two gendarmes, then freed them. France's Foreign Ministry said it would soon summon Israel's ambassador.

www.lemonde.fr

Le Monde article on this.

 

[faible]

Good to see nothing has changed in the French military.

Please, do continue.

 

[DapperDon]

Imagine comparing a minor dispute between diplomats and police officers with October 7th The state of anti-Israelis.

Minor dispute sure, Israeli and IDF arrogance highlighted once again on the world stage.

also, anti-Israelis? don't lower yourself to Zidane standard of retorts

 

[ZEV]

Minor dispute sure, Israeli and IDF arrogance highlighted once again on the world stage.

also, anti-Israelis? don't lower yourself to Zidane standard of retorts

What did the IDF do here?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

240 legal experts is pretty vague.

How many were asked? What law do they practice in? What nationality are they? Who asked the questions?

Follow the link - you can sign it yourself Dr Don.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If the reports are true, then absolutely the blame for any civilian casualties that occur directly due to Hamas's use of human shields is on Hamas. Why do you think it's a breach of IHL to use the civilian population as human shields? It endangers them. The mere presence of civilians in an area does not prevent military targets from being fired on as long as the attack is proportionate.

Yes yes, we know. Human shields, military targets, proportionate.

Can you explain how a Palestinian civilian is a 'human shield' when Israel have zero qualms about eliminating them en masse? How many civilians do they need to slaughter before you are convinced of their ineffectiveness as shields?

When there are so many loyal footsoldiers assigning blame to Hamas, rather than the ones dropping the bombs, and no end in sight, even you must admit the 'propaganda value' of a 'human shield' is next to nil?

It's time to call it what it is - bullshit. You will deny it and keep saying it because you've got to cling onto something, but it's bullshit. Sorry.

'A siege within a siege': How Israel's army blocks aid to tens of thousands of Gazans

***

www.haaretz.com

Israel are systematically clearing Gaza, killing civilians, then preventing rescue and aid. There's no immediate military justification for this - but it makes sense if you're cleansing Gaza. They can't even be bothered saying there was a Hamas member on the toilet in there.

Both sides have a responsibility to protect civilians. Hamas should be facilitating civilian evacuation, not preventing it.

On what basis are the civilian population being forcibly transferred? And to where?

Nowhere is safe, no one trusts the vague and changing Israeli descriptions of humatiarian areas, which they bomb anyway. These people have nothing already - they will have less in Rafah.

You're going to tell me they're being bombed, starved and refused aid, to drive them out of these places - for their own good, aren't you. To evacuate them from an ongoing warzone. To another warzone.

Ethnic cleansing? There is no immediate plan to allow them to return, I don't think there is a suggestion it's permanent though...

We're making progress - a couple of weeks ago you were against the plan, and didn't believe it would happen.

How quickly you've switched to defending it. Amazing.

What will they return to?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Meanwhile, German's foreign minister:

Germany Sees 'No Signs of Genocide' in Gaza – Foreign Ministry Reiterates Support to Israel

While denying that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, the foreign ministry spokesperson reiterates Germany’s flow of arms to Tel Aviv.

www.palestinechronicle.com

Versus Francesca Albanese





She's just had a conference in Canada cancelled and was condemned for making anti semitic remarks.


The fact that you need to quote her says it all about your argument.

What are her anti-semitic statements Zidane?

 

[Jazny]

Yes yes, we know. Human shields, military targets, proportionate.

Can you explain how a Palestinian civilian is a 'human shield' when Israel have zero qualms about eliminating them en masse?

If Israel had no qualms about eliminating them en masse, why would Hamas use them as human shields? Why would Israel bother evacuating Jabalia camp at all? Why not just fight them with all the civilians around?

Why is the civilian death toll after a year looking like a war rather than a genocide?


If it was a genocide or Israel just killing civilians en masse with no care for proportionality as a policy, you would expect as the armed forces of Hamas were decimated more and more the rate of casualties would accelerate because Israel would have a much easier time getting to the civilians to genocide them. But the opposite seems to be happening. The more Hamas are destroyed, the less casualties per month are occurring.

We're making progress - a couple of weeks ago you were against the plan, and didn't believe it would happen.

The General's plan (or at least what I understand it to be) that I did not believe would happen hasn't seemed to have happened yet. There are reports of a version of the plan being carried out in Jabalia camp, but the IDF claims to still be delivering a dozen trucks a day to Northern Gaza. Last estimate I saw there were only about 5,000 Palestinians left in the area. Reports of large waves of Palestinians moving out to safety somewhat support this, but none of us can know for sure what is happening on the ground.

I am against any plan to starve a civilian population out of an area. I get that the alternatives are almost as bad, ie fighting in a civilian dense area. But using starvation as a tool like that, even with the aim to get them out of harm's way, is surely a war crime. If thousands of Gazans starve to death from siege tactics, that would be an absolute disgrace. Completely shameful.

Remember how you were calling it ethnic cleansing because you thought, probably because propagandists quote mine any statement they can find, that Israel would not be ever allowing them to return?

IDF distances itself from ‘no return’ remarks about north Gaza evacuees

Israeli army says officer’s comments that Palestinians will not be allowed return home were taken out of context

www.theguardian.com

How quickly you've switched to defending it. Amazing.

When have I defended the general's plan?

What will they return to?

View attachment 2160959

A war zone, unfortunately, thanks to Hamas.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If Israel had no qualms about eliminating them en masse, why would Hamas use them as human shields?

Do they though? This is an easy claim for Israel to make, as they have done for decades, but where is the evidence?

When such claims were made during Cast Lead, investigations found it to be a myth. Gazans themselves say they ignore the IDFs evacuation orders because they are shelled in the supposed safe zones. They are stuck with sick or elderly, with children with special needs.

Israel-Gaza conflict: The myth of Hamas’s human shields

What used to be a three-storey house had been turned into debris sunk into a deep crater with twisted steel rods jutting out. Twenty-six people were killed in the mostly deadly air-strike so far in this bloody conflict. Twenty-four of them were from one family, the Abu Jamaa.

web.archive.org

In Gaza, Hamas fighters are among civilians. There is nowhere else for them to go

Lines are blurred when a guerrilla war is fought in as dense a place as Gaza but the IDF's HQ is also surrounded by civilians

www.theguardian.com

Jeremy Bowen’s Gaza notebook: I saw no evidence of Hamas using Palestinians as human shields

The BBC's Middle East editor reports from Gaza.

www.newstatesman.com

What military objective are they shielding, if they are forcing civilians to remain in the north?

I wonder if you noted the several articles about Israel's systemic use of Palestinians as deliberate human shields? Like, actual human shields, forced out in front of operations? I must have missed your outrage about that.

Why is the civilian death toll after a year looking like a war rather than a genocide?
View attachment 2161010

Where are these figures from? Look well short for October, by almost 2000. You can also add 10k missing/under rubble.

If it was a genocide or Israel just killing civilians en masse with no care for proportionality as a policy, you would expect as the armed forces of Hamas were decimated more and more the rate of casualties would accelerate because Israel would have a much easier time getting to the civilians to genocide them. But the opposite seems to be happening. The more Hamas are destroyed, the less casualties per month are occurring.

I would have agreed until the beginning of October.

The General's plan (or at least what I understand it to be) that I did not believe would happen hasn't seemed to have happened yet. There are reports of a version of the plan being carried out in Jabalia camp, but the IDF claims to still be delivering a dozen trucks a day to Northern Gaza. Last estimate I saw there were only about 5,000 Palestinians left in the area. Reports of large waves of Palestinians moving out to safety somewhat support this, but none of us can know for sure what is happening on the ground.

Jabalya, Beit Hanoun and Beit Lahia.

I am against any plan to starve a civilian population out of an area. I get that the alternatives are almost as bad, ie fighting in a civilian dense area. But using starvation as a tool like that, even with the aim to get them out of harm's way, is surely a war crime. If thousands of Gazans starve to death from siege tactics, that would be an absolute disgrace. Completely shameful.

Remember how you were calling it ethnic cleansing because you thought, probably because propagandists quote mine any statement they can find, that Israel would not be ever allowing them to return?

IDF distances itself from ‘no return’ remarks about north Gaza evacuees

Israeli army says officer’s comments that Palestinians will not be allowed return home were taken out of context

www.theguardian.com

Funny how many times we've heard this since Oct 8th.



Comments taken out of context. Their actions don't reflect IDF values. Should not have been quoted.

He maybe let slip the truth, and is probably being reprimanded for it?

 

[Jazny]

Do they though? This is an easy claim for Israel to make, as they have done for decades, but where is the evidence?

When such claims were made during Cast Lead, investigations found it to be a myth.

The UN fact finding mission found they were launching rockets within civilian areas and not even giving warning to residents, they just didn't find evidence for specific intent to use civilians as human shields.

This NATO stratcom document has some damning evidence of Hamas using human shields during the time period. They aren't shy about it.

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

Tbf I have no way of verifying independently if the claims of the use of human shields in this war are true, but I find them credible.

View attachment 2161122

Comments taken out of context. Their actions don't reflect IDF values. Should not have been quoted.

He maybe let slip the truth, and is probably being reprimanded for it?

I read the comments as no immediate plan to move them back, not never move them back. Even the middle east eye read it that way from an article I read yesterday.

Where are these figures from? Look well short for October, by almost 2000. You can also add 10k missing/under rubble.

ABC's analysis of UN OCHA data.

Amid gruesome hospital scenes, the true death toll in Gaza might be much higher than we think

The reality on the ground in Gaza makes assessing the true death toll an enormous challenge, but despite that, experts say it is not only recorded honestly, but also likely an under-count.

www.abc.net.au