Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[stax on the mull]

Their first report stated Israel was responsible. Anyone in possession of the facts regrading this can't possibly say Israel was responsible for the Ah-Ahli hospital massacre. That's simply reality.

The facts are inconclusive and doused with propaganda. Your reality is that you've accepted one interpretation and you don't have the facts. There's been no proper on the ground forensic investigation and interviews with the witnesses.

It will remain a disputed event of this conflict, but we can see from other actions of the Israeli government that hospitals have not been exempt from being targeted.

Attacks on health facilities during the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[faible]

Their first report stated Israel was responsible. Anyone in possession of the facts regrading this can't possibly say Israel was responsible for the Ah-Ahli hospital massacre. That's simply reality.

Forensic Architecture

forensic-architecture.org

 

[Zidane98]

The facts are inconclusive and doused with propaganda. Your reality is that you've accepted one interpretation and you don't have the facts. There's been no proper on the ground forensic investigation and interviews with the witnesses.

It will remain a disputed event of this conflict, but we can see from other actions of the Israeli government that hospitals have not been exempt from being targeted.

No they are not doused with propaganda. What a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[faible]

Also this one

Forensic Architecture

forensic-architecture.org

While what happened at al-Ahli remains inconclusive, it is clear that in the aftermath of the explosion, the Israeli military launched an aggressive disinformation campaign.

As it stands, Israel has yet to provide any conclusive visual evidence to support the claim that the source of the deadly blast at al-Ahli hospital was a Hamas or PIJ rocket.

It is also worth noting that four days before the explosion at al-Ahli, on 13 October, Israel ordered the evacuation of all northern hospitals, including al-Ahli; and the following day, an Israeli strike on the hospital’s cancer treatment ward was confirmed by Al-Haq (Israel is known to issue warning strikes prior to full scale attacks). This incident was hardly an anomaly. In the ten days prior, the World Health Organisation (WHO) reported 51 attacks on medical infrastructure in Gaza.

By aggregating news reports from Al-Jazeera, Alaraby, and Shehab News since 7 October, our analysis shows that Israeli intimidation and attacks on medical infrastructure, including hospitals, has been systematic and unrelenting, following a consistent pattern defined by attacks on the surrounding area, direct targeting, siege, and occupation.

 

[stax on the mull]

No they are not doused with propaganda. What a ridiculous thing to say.

You've seen the IDF guy (I think it's covered in that Forensic Architecture report) holding similar photos of rockets in the sky saying it's proof that it was Hamas. That article debunks that. Just like the IDF immediately released a phony recording of two "Arabs" talking about how their rocket landed on the hospital (but they couldn't get the dialect correct). That's the kind of propaganda I'm referring to - and if you continue to claim that it's beyond dispute and you have the facts, then you are also contributing to the propaganda.

 

[Zidane98]

You've seen the IDF guy (I think it's covered in that Forensic Architecture report) holding similar photos of rockets in the sky saying it's proof that it was Hamas. That article debunks that. Just like the IDF immediately released a phony recording of two "Arabs" talking about how their rocket landed on the hospital (but they couldn't get the dialect correct). That's the kind of propaganda I'm referring to - and if you continue to claim that it's beyond dispute and you have the facts, then you are also contributing to the propaganda.

I don't care what the IDF guy says, that's completely irrelevant.

The rocket failure was caught from 4 different camera angles



There's also little to no impact crater, damage confined to a few cars.




There's little damage to any nearby buildings, virtually no impact crater. What you are seeing here is propellant ignition from a failed rocket.

PIJ announced on their social media that they fired a barrage of rockets upon Israel just a minute before the explosion.


This was absolutely not a bomb in any shape or form. You have to question the motivations of anyone who tries to argue it still was a bombing by Israel.


If there was the slightest hint of any Israeli munition you can be assured that Hamas would have been saturating media coverage via Al Jazeera with it.

 

[faible]

The rocket failure was caught from 4 different camera angles

Zidane: 'I'm not relying on propaganda'
Also Zidane: 'Here's the IDF approved version of events, no I won't read anything further'

 

[faible]

What you are seeing here is propellant ignition from a failed rocket.

The footage you're referring to appears to be the footage they analyse below:

Forensic Architecture

forensic-architecture.org

After the explosion, Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, an Israeli military spokesperson appeared on CNN and the BBC, pointing to a still from an Al Jazeera livestream showing a mid-air explosion. Lerner claimed that this footage captured the misfiring rocket responsible for the blast at al-Ahli.

According to our analysis, this missile is likely an Israeli interceptor, unrelated to the al-Ahli blast.

The trajectory shows the missile was launched from outside Gaza, near to a known Israeli missile launch site that is part of its ‘Iron Dome’ air defence system. The shape of the missile’s trajectory, turning twice in mid-air, again suggests that this is a guided Israeli interceptor, rather than a Palestinian rocket which would follow the arc of a ballistic trajectory.

Our analysis shows that the explosion captured in the Al Jazeera footage, and referenced by Lerner, took place at an altitude of 5km, and 5.7km from the hospital, outside of Gaza.

From an altitude of 5km, any fragments from this explosion would have reached the ground 31s later in freefall. The hospital blast occurred only 8s later, meaning that this missile cannot have been responsible.

Independent investigations by the New York Times and the Washington Post corroborate our analysis.

Multiple news outlets cited Israeli military spokesperson Daniel Hagari’s claim that it was a Palestinian rocket that struck al-Ahli hospital with ‘most of this damage… done due to the propellant, not just the warhead’

Our analysis, however, suggests that all seventeen visible rockets in the salvo the Israeli military claimed was responsible had finished burning their fuel mid-flight, meaning that by Hagari’s own logic they could not have caused the damage to al-Ahli.

We consulted an aerospace expert with a specialism in rockets and missiles who prefers to remain anonymous. They told us that:

• The distance and speed of the rockets while flaring is consistent with an Arash or Grad rocket typically used by Hamas or PIJ.
• The speed and distance travelled while flaring indicates that the propellant had finished burning in all seventeen rockets while they were still mid-flight.
• Once a rocket’s propellant has started burning, it is highly unlikely that it will stop burning with fuel still remaining in its chamber.

 

[Zidane98]

The footage you're referring to appears to be the footage they analyse below:

Forensic Architecture

forensic-architecture.org

There are multiple camera angles that capture the rocket failure. Not just one.

You either haven't viewed the videos from WSJ or deliberately ignore it as the security camera facing south captures the entire flight of the rocket from launch to failure from Gaza. You're also deliberately ignoring the fact that there's next to no impact crater, damage limited to a small amount of vehicles. Little to no building damage.

Forensic architecture is not a credible source either. ABC have retracted their original stance that Israel was responsible. All legitimate international investigations conclude Hamas / PIJ is responsible for this massacre. I find it incredible the amount of people who supposedly defend the rights of Palestinian people are happy to give Hamas / PIJ a freer pass for massacring Palestinians.

A quick look at forensic architecture website shows it has anti -
Israel government views. Much of what it post mirrors Al-Jazeera..

 

[faible]

There are multiple camera angles that capture the rocket failure. Not just one.

You either haven't viewed the videos from WSJ or deliberately ignore it as the security camera facing south captures the entire flight of the rocket from launch to failure from Gaza. You're also deliberately ignoring the fact that there's next to no impact crater, damage limited to a small amount of vehicles. Little to no building damage.

Forensic architecture is not a credible source either. ABC have retracted their original stance that Israel was responsible. All legitimate international investigations conclude Hamas / PIJ is responsible for this massacre. I find it incredible the amount of people who supposedly defend the rights of Palestinian people are happy to give Hamas / PIJ a freer pass for massacring Palestinians.

A quick look at forensic architecture website shows it has anti -
Israel government views. Much of what it post mirrors Al-Jazeera..

Eyal Weizman - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

sat on the board of the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem in Jerusalem.

B'Tselem - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

B'Tselem

(Hebrew: בצלם, IPA: [beˈtselem]; transl. "In the Image [of God]") is a Jerusalem-based non-profit organization whose stated goals are to document human rights violationsin the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories, combat any denial of the existence of such violations, and help to create a human rightsculture in Israel.

Maybe they do have anti-Israeli government views. Given the actions of the Israeli government, that’s not a bad thing.

Of course you’ve dismissed the entire article, almost certainly without reading it, without doing any research whatsoever as to the organisation who generated it, and decided that being anti-Israeli government (the government accused of war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of IHL and IHRL) is a bad thing that no ‘rational’ (as defined by Zidane) person could conclude.

 

[Zidane98]

Eyal Weizman - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

B'Tselem - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Maybe they do have anti-Israeli government views. Given the actions of the Israeli government, that’s not a bad thing.

Of course you’ve dismissed the entire article, almost certainly without reading it, without doing any research whatsoever as to the organisation who generated it, and decided that being anti-Israeli government (the government accused of war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of IHL and IHRL) is a bad thing that no ‘rational’ (as defined by Zidane) person could conclude.

The very article you quote states that BBC, AP, human rights watch all found that a failed rocket was responsible. I did read it and it pretty much is a rehash of debunked Al-Jazeera disinformation with the sole intent of shifting blame for the massacre from the culprit Hamas to Israel for political reasons.

It also incorrectly attributes the hospital explosion to the initial barrage of 17 short range rockets when quite clearly the explosion was caused by a long range rocket fired after this first salvo that was fired.

A quick look at your source shows it to have a strong anti Israel government bias. It looks like you've ignored multiple sources in favour of one clearly anti - Israel government source. Considering your posting history I don't think anyone in this thread would be surprised by your choice of source.

AP, Human Rights Watch,BBC certainly are not pro Israel in any way.