Was Jim Stynes' presidency a failure?

[Wonaeamirri33]

Indeed.

How is it we didn't realise we were actually such a strong team all this time?

What with all those marvellous players we've had at our disposal, like Morton, Petterd, Moloney, Martin, Gysberts...

 

[fairdinkum]

Let's be honest - if there were organised meetings of the coaching group to discuss tanking as Caro claims - and I have no doubt she's being fed by the AFL on this, then Stynes knew.

Jimmy knew.

You might be on to something there but regardless of who is driving this, the cynic in me can't help but wonder at the timing.

Is it crazy to think that this was all going to come out eventually, but the powers that be were happy to wait until the great man's time had come and gone?

Think about that 15-minute tribute at the Brownlows. It was the AFL's way of saying 'goodbye' once and for all.

Now that the affected people have had time to grieve and Stynes' official legacy time to solidify, all of a sudden it is wham bam thankyou mam, we had you (MFC) from the start.

Coincidence, maybe. Maybe.

 

[The Prosecutor]

You mean because we're somehow unique in this?

Do you actually believe the fiction you're implying about us being the only club with a potential case to answer?

Never mind the fact that Stynes was away from the club at least half the time over this period.

Are you really that upset about the fact you keep losing to us?

What are you on about?

This isn't about any other club, this is about Jim Stynes and his role at Melbourne. Others clubs are completely irrelevant.

He was still the President. Either he was very much aware of the meeting(s) or he was a President who didn't know what was happening at the club. Either way it doesn't paint a good picture.

And what does my team have to do with this?

You really are the Tony Abbott of BigFooty, deflecting away from the issues by blaming other teams in the hope that people don't notice your lack of pertinent points.

 

[fairdinkum]

I was wondering why it seemed like other posters were preemptively responding to attacks before I realised you must all be referring to Wona.

I've had that guy on ignore for weeks. SRP is so much easier to read with him (and a few other sycophants) no longer part of threads. Some are literally 1/4 as long as they used to be.

 

[MaddAdam]

Stynes had the right idea in a practical sense - he can't be blamed for wanting to exploit an existent rule.

But he sacrificed his, and the club's, dignity to try and take a shortcut to success.

Better, more honest ways to do. Rebuild honest.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Stynes had the right idea in a practical sense - he can't be blamed for wanting to exploit an existent rule.

But he sacrificed his, and the club's, dignity to try and take a shortcut to success.

Better, more honest ways to do. Rebuild honest.

Exactly, he tried to make Melbourne take a step forward, though the result was that they will likely have taken two steps behind because of it.

The culture of the club has been shot, the plan has been thwarted by poor drafting and to top it all off, they could get hammered by the AFL which has the potential to set the club back even further.

 

[MaddAdam]

Exactly, he tried to make Melbourne take a step forward, though the result was that they will likely have taken two steps behind because of it.

The culture of the club has been shot, the plan has been thwarted by poor drafting and to top it all off, they could get hammered by the AFL which has the potential to set the club back even further.

I would have thought after all the hard yards Jim put in during his own career, he'd have been the last to try and shirk the contest and get a sneaky advantage.

You live and learn I guess.

 

[dmc333]

Sad to see Stynes revealed as the head of the most elaborate and systematic tanking program in AFL history.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

According to Caroline Wilson eh? Amazing how North Melbourne fans are so eager to trust her now

Speaking of articles...

How to tank in 10 easy steps
July 21, 2009

Everyone agrees players don't throw games. But that doesn't mean there aren't many ways for coaches eyeing priority picks to minimise their chances of winning.

Here is the Herald Sun's how-to guide to tanking.

1. PLAY YOUR STARS OUT OF POSITION

When you are a bottom-four side and your coach is planning for the future, no one notices positional changes in the name of experimentation.

In the "Hasleby Game" of 1999, where Fremantle won a priority pick by coughing up a halftime lead to Geelong, even the Freo players were suspicious.

The Cats were down by nine points at halftime but Fremantle bled the last 11 goals, and Dockers midfielder Brodie Holland smelled a rat.

"I do remember sitting with (teammate) Jess Sinclair and talking about how it's the first time he's played back pocket and the first time I've played on the half-back flank," Holland later said. "There were a few funny moves. There's definitely been a few chats amongst the older boys, because we were curious."

2. PLAY ALL YOUR KIDS

It is now the norm rather than the exception -- force-feed your up-and-coming kids with games late in the year.

When the Pies lost 10 of the last 11 games of 2005 to secure Scott Pendlebury and Dale Thomas, they gave games to anyone. Promising kids such as Heath Shaw, Harry O'Brien and Sean Rusling were rewarded.

But many other debutants, including Ben Davies, Chris Egan, David Fanning, Brent Hall, and Adam Iacobucci, sank quickly from sight.

3. DON'T TAG THE OPPOSITION'S STAR

In the infamous Carlton-Melbourne Round 22 clash of 2007, silky Demons onballer Travis Johnstone was allowed to run rampant, gathering 42 possessions loose across half-back. It was perhaps the only time that season he was not assigned the opposition's best tagger.

Heath Scotland earned three Brownlow votes for his 31 possessions a fortnight earlier in Round 20, but the Demons didn't tag him that day either.

In the same round, Essendon's Andrew Lovett cut Carlton to shreds. Yet a Carlton official has twice recounted the story that when a coaching member asked "Who is on Lovett?", the reply was something like, "Let's not worry about picking up Lovett".

4. PUT PLAYERS IN FOR SURGERY

Tony Liberatore, who was banished from Carlton for his tanking claims, said defender Bret Thornton was forced into a needless ankle operation late in 2007.

The Blues and Thornton denied that, but many players are now given early surgery. Clubs call it "list management", and we don't blink an eye. But if you are rewarded with a priority pick for a low finish, the pressure is on to manage that list a little harder.

5. DUMP THE 30-PLUS TYPES

It doesn't need explanation any more. Last year Demons Adem Yze and Jeff White played out their careers in the VFL. This year it is Tigers Joel Bowden, Nathan Brown and probably Troy Simmonds when he resumes from injury.

Bowden was in excellent form when dumped, but hasn't been able to get back in the side.

6. GIVE BATTLERS A GO

If you haven't already succeeded by putting the elders out to pasture and introducing raw kids, there is Plan C.

Every list has a host of strugglers desperate for one last chance to prove they deserve another contract. Mostly they are no good, but playing them in prominent or key-position roles helps to death-ride your team.

7. CHANGE TACTICS

In that 1999 Kardinia Park game, a Fremantle team that had flooded heavily all year suddenly played one-on-one football. "A lot of the boys were talking about a few of the moves," Docker Garth Taylor said. "The older players were having a conversation about it."

Boundary rider Richard Osborne noted "how refreshing in this day and age when coaches are just obsessed with flooding the backline, seeing Barry Stoneham one-out in the forward line".

8. LIMIT ROTATIONS

As Terry Wallace said this month, it's not what you do. It's what you don't.

If your players just don't have any petrol in the tank because they haven't had enough rest, it stands to reason they will be overrun.

9. TAKE YOUR MATCH-WINNERS OFF LATE

As Carlton's priority pick went down to the wire in 2007, Brendan Fevola was at several times brought from the field at key stages in games.

Against Collingwood, the Blues were level in time-on of the last term. Then Fevola left the field for more than two minutes with a thigh problem, and Collingwood kicked the last four goals.

The evidence is not damning, but it doesn't hurt.

10. ASK YOUR COACH

In 2003, former Hawthorn coach Ken Judge claimed Hawks board member Don Scott had asked him in 1998 to lose the last five games of the year to help the club's draft prospects.

Scott denied the allegation and threatened legal action. But according to Andrew Demetriou, tanking doesn't exist, so Judge must have simply misheard him.

http://www.news.com.au/how-to-tank-in-10-easy-steps/story-0-1225752922541

I'm guessing that's all different somehow?

Sure it is.

Everyone else = good tanking.

Melbourne = bad tanking

I've had that guy on ignore for weeks.

Yes, and anyone else who, like FD, feels themselves unable to argue against content they disagree with from me on any given thread is free to do likewise.

Certainly makes for a better debate as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The Prosecutor]

According to Caroline Wilson eh? Amazing how North Melbourne fans are so eager to trust her now

Speaking of articles...





I'm guessing that's all different somehow?

Sure it is.

Everyone else = good tanking.

Melbourne = bad tanking

When will you get it through your head that other clubs are completely irrelevant to this thread?

Stay on topic or else I will have to report you.

 

[Gram2Lovett]

I'm guessing that's all different somehow?

Sure it is.

Everyone else = good tanking.

Melbourne = bad tanking

10 steps to crisis control on bigfooty

1. Deny
2. Deny
3. Deny
4. Deflect
5-10 - simultaneously deny and deflect.

 

[dmc333]

I'm guessing that's all different somehow?

Sure it is.

Everyone else = good tanking.

Melbourne = bad tanking



Yes, and anyone else who, like FD, feels themselves unable to argue against content they disagree with from me on any given thread is free to do likewise.

Certainly makes for a better debate as far as I'm concerned.

Hopefully this is only scratching the surface of any investigations; after they're done with you they can send Carlton back to the dark ages again.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

When will you get it through your head that other clubs are completely irrelevant to this thread?

No, they're not.

And if you don't like the fact that I'm bringing up your personal motivation, and bringing up the fact that we're certainly not somehow unique on this issue, then go ahead and try to report me.

Go on. Report me.

I hope Grizz and the other mods get a good chuckle out of it

 

[The Prosecutor]

No, they're not.

And if you don't like the fact that I'm bringing up your personal motivation, and bringing up the fact that we're certainly not somehow unique on this issue, then go ahead and try to report me.

Go on. Report me.

I hope Grizz and the other mods get a good chuckle out of it

Yes they are, unless Jim Stynes was President of the Carlton Football Club, then Carlton, and every other team other than Melbourne, are completely irrelevant to this thread.

This thread discusses the success or lack thereof during Jim Stynes' presidency, as such Melbourne's alledged tanking under Jim Stynes is all that is relevant, not whether other clubs do it.

Now, you can try and bring up my personal motivations all you like, it only shows the extent of which you are trying to deflect on the issue.

To sum up your involvement in this thread, you contribution has been "the most outrageous and divisive campaign of lies, innuendo and personal attack ever witnessed in BigFooty posting history", a slightly edited version of your description on Tony Abbott. Amazing how the same descriptions can be applied to both of you.

So please, try and stay on topic and not deflect on to other issues and clubs that are completely irrelevant to this thread.

 

[Messenger]

So, this thread has all the hallmarks of a rapid descent into bullshit. So:

1. Talking about Stynes' legacy to the MFC is fair game.
2. Talking about Stynes' role or lack thereof in the decision to tank is fair game.
3. Character assassination of the deceased is not fair game.

And enough with the Hitler crap.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

To sum up your involvement in this thread, you contribution has been "the most outrageous and divisive campaign of lies, innuendo and personal attack ever witnessed in BigFooty posting history"

Look in the mirror.

I'm not even going to bother asking you to point out these supposed "lies", "innuendos" etc. because I know this is just a lame attempt by you to deflect from your own actions.

Pretending I'm the one responsible for your behaviour - projecting it all onto me - doesn't somehow alter the fact that behaviour is yours, and the responsibility for it is also yours.

Go ahead and report me if you can't handle that.

It won't get you anywhere, but I'd love to see you try.

 

[ExTasDeeMan]

So, this thread has all the hallmarks of a rapid descent into bullshit. So:

1. Talking about Stynes' legacy to the MFC is fair game.
2. Talking about Stynes' role or lack thereof in the decision to tank is fair game.
3. Character assassination of the deceased is not fair game.

And enough with the Hitler crap.

Exactly, there's no way Jim could pull off a sweeeeeet mo like that.

 

[Messenger]

I'm really glad we've all been able to focus on the topic at hand.

 

[Gram2Lovett]

So, this thread has all the hallmarks of a rapid descent into bullshit. So:

1. Talking about Stynes' legacy to the MFC is fair game.
2. Talking about Stynes' role or lack thereof in the decision to tank is fair game.
3. Character assassination of the deceased is not fair game.

And enough with the Hitler crap.

understood. My sincerest apologies mein fuh..
oh.

But on topic - Stynes was spoken about as an occasionally ruthless bastard right? sometimes those sorts of people may see certain things as a neccessary evil.

 

[The Prosecutor]

So, this thread has all the hallmarks of a rapid descent into bullshit. So:

1. Talking about Stynes' legacy to the MFC is fair game.
2. Talking about Stynes' role or lack thereof in the decision to tank is fair game.
3. Character assassination of the deceased is not fair game.

And enough with the Hitler crap.

Thanks Mess, a much needed intervention.

 

[bulletproof]

Clearly a thread trying to be controversial for the sake of it.

Stynes might have made some mistakes but the good he did far outweighed the bad.

The AFL is to blame for tanking, not Melbourne and certainly not bloody Jimmy Stynes.

 

[WCEforeverman]

Look in the mirror.

You seem to be the only poster bringing up other teams?

Anyway, it is a bit too early to tell now.

Stynes certainly brought goodwill, and perhaps a sense of pride, back to the club when he was president. He worked hard on the off field issues.

Unfortunately footy isn't played off the field. That is not to say that the debt reduction campaign he ran wasn't important, just that developing sustained success on the field is just as important.

I don't think anyone here actually believes that Melbourne were trying their hardest to win games in 2009. Just how hard they were trying is hard to measure and is the AFL's problem now.

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds, and what affect it has on the club and on Stynes legacy. It might be remembered fondly or not.

And I don't buy the tu quoque fallacy that several posters are bringing up.

 

[00Stinger]

Stynes had the right idea in a practical sense - he can't be blamed for wanting to exploit an existent rule.

But he sacrificed his, and the club's, dignity to try and take a shortcut to success.

Better, more honest ways to do. Rebuild honest.

Do you keep posting shit until people actually reply to one of your posts?

Surprised there was no mention of North in any of your posts so far

 

[The Prosecutor]

Clearly a thread trying to be controversial for the sake of it.

Stynes might have made some mistakes but the good he did far outweighed the bad.

The AFL is to blame for tanking, not Melbourne and certainly not bloody Jimmy Stynes.

Sure, the AFL opened the opportunity for teams to tank, though it was Melbourne with Stynes as President that decided to proceed down that path.

As such, Stynes is responsible for the clubs actions at that time.

No one is questioning his character, just how successful his presidency was.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Made a good front man to a lot of murky shit happening behind the scenes it would seem.

but hey, he wouldn't be the first and he won't be the last.