Was Luke Ball a Waste of a pick for Collingwood?

[the emergency]

Booooooooooooooooring
Heard it all before
Armo's a gun
and has no injury worries
and no preexisting OP
etc etc etc

 

[Dojo]

Is it too much for other St Kilda supporters to wish Luke Ball well? He gave
great service to our club, put his body on the line time and time again and, let's be honest, we loved him for it. He'll do the same for Collingwood, try his guts out. He won't be a gamebreaker, and he won't kick too many goals but I still believe there's few better at the bottom of the pack. He knew he was fast turning into a fringe player at the Saints - hard to cop that when you've been a former B&F and Captain. I know it's hard to swallow a player choosing to leave but I can understand why he did and in his position I would have done it too.
Let's not bag the bloke - it's not going to make one bit of difference to the Saints this year that he's gone, so let him go with a bit of grace. I think he deserves that much.

Spot on.

 

[KissStephanie]

Considering the Collingwood midfield consists of Beams, Pendlebury, Wellingham, Sidebottom and Thomas (all under 23yrs) he is the perfect pick up to do the bullocking work and protect their bodies while they mature, would also provide those kids with a stellar role model considering how he prepares and goes about the game, bargain.

Yeah of course pick #30 on it's own was a bargain. It could have been worse if St.Kilda were smart, and there were a number of other clubs that would have selected him sooner if he had spoken to them and tried not price them out of selecting him. He's a former captain, so he's leadership alone is invaluable, as well as his work ethic and experience of course.

Why do you assume that pick 21 (Ryan Bastinac) will be inferior to Wellingham?

I don't assume that. I just thought that Wellingham and another player using pick #30 may be better than Bastinac alone. It's also possible that Bastinac may have still been available at pick #25, and then Aaron Black may have still been available at pick #30. Nobody knows though, and your point is fair, and I can at least understand the reasons that North wanted to keep pick #21.

St.Kilda on the other hand is a different matter. They had the choice of either Wellingham or Goldsack and pick #30 for Luke Ball, but they walked away with neither unbelievably. Luke Ball for pick #30 was a great deal for Collingwood, considering what it could have been if St.Kilda were smart. Thankfully St.Kilda is not smart though.

Why have Sharrod Wellingham and pick 30, when they can have Andrew Lovett and no pick?

 

[JeffDunne]

If his leadership is "invaluable", why is he not in the leadersip group?

Doesn't say much for your other senior players either.

 

[KissStephanie]

I have seen some dumb-ass things said by KSS before but this takes the cake.

No you haven't, and no it doesn't. You're the dumb-arse, and therefore you don't understand my logic which is not surprising.

You only get a pick up front KSS and cannot come back and claim the "at least one best player" from pick 31-60 in late years.

Ha ha ha! Who said that? What a classic!

Sydney selected Sam Reid with pick #38, and if he becomes a good player, then St.Kilda could have had him first with pick #30 if they weren't so stupid. Melbourne selected Max Gawn with pick #34, and if he becomes a good player, then St.Kilda could have had him first with pick #30 if they weren't so stupid. Richmond selected Troy Taylor with pick #51, and if he becomes a good player, then St.Kilda could have had him first with pick #30 if they weren't so stupid, etc., etc., etc.

My point is simple, and that is there is a big chance that more than one of the players that were selected between pick #31 and pick #60 will be very good players, and St.Kilda could have picked any one of those players first with pick #30 if their recruiting staff was any good at recognising talent. St.Kilda did not give themselves that opportunity though because they felt that nothing was better than pick #30.

Well then they would have wasted a pick because nobody else rated Sinclair. It's a standard claim by any club in that situation.

Collingwood were going to use pick #30 on Ben Sinclair if Luke Ball was not available. They rated him very highly regardless of what other clubs thought, and his performances in the pre-season would suggest that Collingwood may be right about that one. Thankfully Collingwood were able to get Sinclair with pick #62, which means that using pick #30 on Ball could never be a waste at all. Not to mention that Wellingham and Goldsack are still at the club!

Now St.Kilda's pick #16 on the other hand was certainly a diabolical waste. There was a lot of talent available in last years National Draft at that pick. St.Kilda could have picked up two really good players with picks #16 and #30 as well as Sharrod Wellingham. Unbelievable.

 

[kosifantutti]

My point is simple, and that is there is a big chance that more than one of the players that were selected between pick #31 and pick #60 will be very good players,

Well there's Nicholas Winmar for starters.

Collingwood were going to use pick #30 on Ben Sinclair if Luke Ball was not available.

And it would have been a waste because nobody else was going to pick Sinclair before pick 62. You could have had Sinclair and one of those "very good players" you mentioned above.

 

[KissStephanie]

Well there's Nicholas Winmar for starters.

What do you mean? St.Kilda selected him with pick #32, and they could have selected him at pick #30, and then one of those other players at pick #32. St.Kilda wasted an opportunity to select a good player by foolishly walking away from pick #30, not to mention throwing away pick #16, while Wellingham was all theirs as well if they wanted him. Thank goodness they didn't want him.

And it would have been a waste because nobody else was going to pick Sinclair before pick 62. You could have had Sinclair and one of those "very good players" you mentioned above.

There's not a waste at all. Collingwood wanted Luke Ball first with pick #30. Other clubs wanted to select him earlier than that but were forced from doing that because he made it so clear that he was only interested in joining Collingwood. Collingwood were prepared to part with either Wellingham or Goldsack and pick #30 to get him, so to get him for only pick #30 was a bargain.

There were four players that Collingwood wanted in the National Draft, and they were Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas and Simon Buckley, and it's completely irrelevant what other clubs felt about those players. Josh Thomas was expected to be selected between #21-#41, but he was still available at pick #75! Collingwood were therefore able to get all four of the players that they wanted. St.Kilda on the other hand had the opportunity to select two very good players with picks #16 and #30, but they decided to waste that opportunity instead.

 

[kosifantutti]

walking away from pick #30, not to mention throwing away pick #16, while Wellingham was all theirs as well if they wanted him.

You stated many, many, many, times that Goldsack was offered to St Kilda not Wellingham. Are you flip flopping?

There were four players that Collingwood wanted in the National Draft, and they were Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas and Simon Buckley, and it's completely irrelevant what other clubs felt about those players. Josh Thomas was expected to be selected between #21-#41, but he was still available at pick #75! Collingwood were therefore able to get all four of the players that they wanted.

Melbourne got the two players they wanted at one and two. Any claims by other clubs or their supporters I take with a grain of salt.

By the way, the Saints rated Winmar, Smith, Pattison and Johnson as 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th best players in the draft. We were REALLY lucky to get them with one pick in the 30s, two picks in the 60s and one in the 70s.

 

[LET ME TALK]

He didnt look too good did he?? Maybe early to tell, but his kicking was woeful. Im happy with Armitage, kicks long good sense of goals.

WHat did we use for B.Peake?? He was good on the weekend nice run and goals. If J.Smith, T.Walsh can come up then this so called bad draft not so bad for the saints ... well can only hope.

I thought pattison was shite though.

 

[Warren Buckley]

Luke Ball's confidence is at zero at the moment.

One of the billion coaches at Collingwood need to get into his head and work it out.

Come to think of it they need to get into Travis Cloke's head as well as he is performing at about 20%.

Will be interesting to see how the pressure mounts if Collingwood lose to the Saints and Ball has another ordinary game.

 

[KissStephanie]

You stated many, many, many, times that Goldsack was offered to St Kilda not Wellingham. Are you flip flopping?

I've stated a number of times that both were offered. Collingwood offered Wellingham and pick #30 to St.Kilda. They weren't interested though because they didn't want another midfielder because they were doing deals for Lovett and Peake. Collingwood then offered Wellingham and pick #30 to North Melbourne in an attempt to get a lower pick to satisfy St.Kilda.

The Saints were completely aware that Collingwood were shoppimg Wellingham around, and at any stage they could have changed their mind and gone with Wellingham and pick #30 after all, but they didn't thankfully. Initially they were interested in Tyson Goldsack but changed their mind and then they wanted Andrejs Everitt or nothing thank goodness.

Melbourne got the two players they wanted at one and two.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

Any claims by other clubs or their supporters I take with a grain of salt.

It doesn't matter to me what you take with what. There were four players that Collingwood wanted to select in the National Draft, and they were Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas and Simon Buckley.

By the way, the Saints rated Winmar, Smith, Pattison and Johnson as 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th best players in the draft. We were REALLY lucky to get them with one pick in the 30s, two picks in the 60s and one in the 70s.

If that's the case, then good on St.Kilda for at least getting those four players. They wasted the opportunity of selecting two good players with picks #16 and #30 though.

 

[Ricmel]

Luke Ball's confidence is at zero at the moment.

I think it is both a confidence and physical thing with Luke. He is a guy that has been a standout in every sport he has tried since he was about 6. To suddenly not be able to do the things you used to be able to do must be really draining and I think he is having trouble coming to terms with the role that first StKilda and now probably Pies want him to play.

I am still not sure why the Pies wanted Luke. Pies seem to have a wealth of young midfield guns with a sprinkling of older hard nuts. Putting Luke in the mix to me seems to just slow down your whole midfield set up (I know it did at Saints which is why Saints supporters were so critical of him).

I said a few weeks ago it will be interesting to see if he is in Pies team at the end of the year. I think that question is still very much up in the air.

If he just plays out at this level for another year or 2 and finishes up it will be very sad because in 2004/05 I thought he was an absolute shoo in to one day win a Brownlow.

 

[Warren Buckley]

I think it is both a confidence and physical thing with Luke.

If he just plays out at this level for another year or 2 and finishes up it will be very sad because in 2004/05 I thought he was an absolute shoo in to one day win a Brownlow.

Very good points.

He showed he still has it physically (run-wise) in the Port Adelaide practice game where he was near BOG, in what was a final hit out, full on game.

But it is his kicking.

When you have heaps of pressure on you, some times it just gets too much.

The problem for him is that with the Saints and Hawks and then anzac day in the next few weeks, there is no place to hide and take a breather.

O'Bree being out really hurt him too. O'Bree can help him with the grunt work and give Ball a breather.

All Collingwood players were well down on the w/e.

Jolly is currently playing just as bad but tbh, it only takes one good game and then the confidence comes rushing back.

 

[Ricmel]

He showed he still has it physically (run-wise) in the Port Adelaide practice game where he was near BOG, in what was a final hit out, full on game.

You know I am pretty sure he held (maybe still holds) the APS schoolboys record for the 400m. His running has improved again over the last year I think so that is a good sign.

 

[Katherine Amateurs]

Waste of a draft pick?

Andrew Lovett?

Why did you ask for more than pick 30 if you thought he was so bad?

The obsession continues.

 

[TradeDraft]

If his leadership is "invaluable", why is he not in the leadersip group?

Doesn't say much for your other senior players either.

Becasuse he did not Nominate Himself, If he did he would be in the Leadership group

 

[St DAC]

Is it too much for other St Kilda supporters to wish Luke Ball well? He gave
great service to our club, put his body on the line time and time again and, let's be honest, we loved him for it. He'll do the same for Collingwood, try his guts out. He won't be a gamebreaker, and he won't kick too many goals but I still believe there's few better at the bottom of the pack. He knew he was fast turning into a fringe player at the Saints - hard to cop that when you've been a former B&F and Captain. I know it's hard to swallow a player choosing to leave but I can understand why he did and in his position I would have done it too.
Let's not bag the bloke - it's not going to make one bit of difference to the Saints this year that he's gone, so let him go with a bit of grace. I think he deserves that much.

+1.

Really, this is getting tiresome. He's a Collingwood player now, let's all just move on.

 

[TradeDraft]

Would Ball have to Change his Kicking Style to get more out of his Kicks?

 

[The Fireman]

Would Ball have to Change his Kicking Style to get more out of his Kicks?

Taking into account that his groin is in poor shape due to OP I'm not sure his kicking will improve no matter what.

 

[mysainters]

He has secured a three year contract with the Pies, found a good fit which was important to him, will play a role that will more often show his strengths rather than expose his weaknesses.

I am happy to move on, no bitterness here.

 

[frednirk]

Sad to see him degenerate into this slow midfielder who can't kick more than 10m accurately.

He was fantastic in 2004 and 2005 for us, until the osteitis pubis ruined him.

Can it ever be fixed?

 

[Dangas]

Yer I agree, at least he is playing footy, Lovett aint even playing, so I'd call that a wasted trade

 

[DaVe86]

Listen here everyone......stop the worry.

Luke Ball was not recruited to play blinders against Melbourne.


Luke Ball was recruited to give us another mature body in the big games.


He will star this week against the Saints because he is suited to that style of game.


He lifts in finals.

He is also probably the best wet weather player in the comp. If it rains in a final, we will have an edge.



I don't care if he plays a shocker agianst Melbourne. We came top 4 last year, so we don't need extra experience to beat the crap sides. We've done that in the past without Ball or Jolly.



But come finals, Ball will come into his element. That's what he is there for. I don't care about the nothing games. It's finals where we will see his value. And in big games like this Friday night. In tough games against Geelong and Hawthorn, his hardness is needed. Last year we sent Beams, Sidebottom and McCarthy up against ABlett, Bartel and Selwood. We sent Wood in against Ottens.


OK, he might not be suited to modern football. But the 2 best teams in the comp are Saints and Geelong. ANd he is suited to both those sides. He was dominant against Geelong last year, and he knows the Saints gameplan well. And he was serviceable against the next best side the Doggies.


So if we want to take the next step from Preliminary final to Grand Final, we need Luke Ball.

I'm more than happy for him to get his bad games out of the way against the poorer sides. We played the worst game I've seen us play in 2 years, yet still won. He'll show his true value in the games that count.

 

[PIES 4 LIFE]

Listen here everyone......stop the worry.

Luke Ball was not recruited to play blinders against Melbourne.


Luke Ball was recruited to give us another mature body in the big games.


He will star this week against the Saints because he is suited to that style of game.


He lifts in finals.

He is also probably the best wet weather player in the comp. If it rains in a final, we will have an edge.



I don't care if he plays a shocker agianst Melbourne. We came top 4 last year, so we don't need extra experience to beat the crap sides. We've done that in the past without Ball or Jolly.



But come finals, Ball will come into his element. That's what he is there for. I don't care about the nothing games. It's finals where we will see his value. And in big games like this Friday night. In tough games against Geelong and Hawthorn, his hardness is needed. Last year we sent Beams, Sidebottom and McCarthy up against ABlett, Bartel and Selwood. We sent Wood in against Ottens.


OK, he might not be suited to modern football. But the 2 best teams in the comp are Saints and Geelong. ANd he is suited to both those sides. He was dominant against Geelong last year, and he knows the Saints gameplan well. And he was serviceable against the next best side the Doggies.


So if we want to take the next step from Preliminary final to Grand Final, we need Luke Ball.

I'm more than happy for him to get his bad games out of the way against the poorer sides. We played the worst game I've seen us play in 2 years, yet still won. He'll show his true value in the games that count.

I will second that.

 

[gilbert the best]

the saints didnt want ball
ball didnt want to stay at the saints and wanted collingwood
collingwood wanted ball
a good result alround, its all hyperthetical what would have happened with the draught pick,early picks can be duds and late picks can be champs
ball is happy and if he can get a game every week with the pies good luck to him