Was Luke Ball a Waste of a pick for Collingwood?

[Beth]

Luke Ball, superfluous to St Kilda's needs, a handy inside mid for Collingwood....see its not hard.


I will give a shiny dollar to whomever closes this thread.

 

[andypie]

In the 2 rounds his played,

36 disposals.

61% disposal Efficiency.

10 direct clangers.

Out of all players at Collingwood, his DE% is the second worst.

He had 10 kicks on Saturday Afternoon, 8 of them were ineffective.

I know you can't base everything on stats, but just trying to paint a picture for those who haven't seen him play. He looks one paced, rarely kicks over 35 meters, and if he does he kicks it as high as he can to get the distance.

In the last quarter he was probably the worst player on ground, one paced, couldn't kick.

No disrespect to the guy, but it seems like Collingwood might've fallen for his tricks as well and are well overpaying what is a very average footballer.

Perhaps pick 30 was too early for Luke Ball?

So then why arnt people like you asking for answers from your own club in why they didnt jump at taking pick 25 for him? I suppose you neednt have worried due to the rest of your trading being so successful last year.

 

[SirJimi05]

Jolly has also had 2 poor games in a row now, we should drop him and play Shae Macnamara in the ruck for the rest of the season, it was a terrible trade.

Too early to label it a disgraceful trade but he has played two absolutely woeful games in Collingwood colours thus far. Another couple like his first two and it might get interesting. Will Malthouse have the balls to drop him?

 

[AFaiL]

Luke Ball, superfluous to St Kilda's needs, a handy inside mid for Collingwood....see its not hard.


I will give a shiny dollar to whomever closes this thread.

Right on the money here mate. Nuff said.

 

[saintsrule]

Yep! OK close it now!

 

[Aussie_Ruler]

Nah, i'll i think hell pick up alot

The presure of playing good has got to him. I dont know why the media brought him up so much. Of course hes not gonna have a 30 possession gamer. He got traided from st kilda becasue he wasnt doing good enough in there team.

let him settle for afew games and hell pick up.

Jolly on the other hand??

 

[The Royal Sampler]

There were four players that Collingwood wanted in the National Draft, and they were Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas and Simon Buckley, and it's completely irrelevant what other clubs felt about those players. Josh Thomas was expected to be selected between #21-#41, but he was still available at pick #75! Collingwood were therefore able to get all four of the players that they wanted.

Melbourne got the two players they wanted at one and two. Any claims by other clubs or their supporters I take with a grain of salt.

There were four players that Collingwood wanted to select in the National Draft, and they were Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas and Simon Buckley.

That's completely ridiculous, Steph. While it's accurate to say that Collingwood wanted those four players, which is self-evident because we drafted them, it's moronic to say those are the only four players we wanted.

Kosifantuti is correctly pointing out that the only club that can rightly claim to have gotten the players they wanted is Melbourne, because they had the first two picks in the draft and so weren't subject to the whims of other clubs first. This doesn't also hold when it comes to Tapscott, Gawn etc. because they were taken down the draft order after other clubs had made selections.

Collingwood, like every other club, would have gone in with a draft board of players in order whom they'd like to draft. There would be players ahead of Sinclair et al whom we would have liked to draft moreso, but didn't get the opportunity because other clubs had already taken them. That's why there is a draft order! To say otherwise is to suggest that we wouldn't have taken Tom Scully if available at #62, which is about as preposterous as you can get.

 

[Football God]

Give him time, just like jolly, he needs to get used to our structure. imo he has done pretty good so far.

 

[demoniac]

Yes.

Can win some contested ball and can tackle but is slow, endurance is questionable and his kicking is woefully inaccurate and lacks penetration.

One can only wonder what kind of player he could have been without OP.

 

[KissStephanie]

That's completely ridiculous, Steph. While it's accurate to say that Collingwood wanted those four players, which is self-evident because we drafted them, it's moronic to say those are the only four players we wanted.

If you don't agree, then no worries, but is there really any need to suggest that it's moronic, particularly when it is not at all whatsoever?

I believe those four players were at the top of Collingwood's list based on the picks they had and the players that may have still been available at that time. Collingwood wanted Luke Ball with pick #30. The club then stated they would have used that pick on Ben Sinclair if Ball was not available. He was available at pick #62 though, so therefore it's safe to say that the first two players they wanted they were able to get. So far so good.

Then, Josh Thomas had been linked to Collingwood prior to the draft, and he was expected to be selected somewhere between pick #21-41, but he was still available at pick #75! They selected him then without hesitation of course. Prior to the draft, it had been suggested that Collingwood also may have used pick #30 on him, but I believe they would have used pick #62 on him if Ball was unavailable at pick #30 because I am sure he was third on their wishlist.

There is no doubt in my mind that the first three players on Collingwood's realistic wishlist in the National Draft were Ball, Sinclair and Thomas, and the club were able to get all three of them! That leaves Simon Buckley at pick #85, but are you really disputing whether he was their fourth choice or not?

Kosifantuti is correctly pointing out that the only club that can rightly claim to have gotten the players they wanted is Melbourne

If it's correct, then maybe you can prove it? If it's only your opinion though, then that does not mean it's correct of course because an opinion is neither right nor wrong.

Collingwood, like every other club, would have gone in with a draft board of players in order whom they'd like to draft.

Yes of course, and I believe the first three players on Collingwood's list in order were Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair and Josh Thomas. The club were aware of the picks they had and the players that may or may not have been available at that time, and those three players were linked closer to Collingwood than any other player leading in to that draft.

There would be players ahead of Sinclair et al whom we would have liked to draft moreso, but didn't get the opportunity because other clubs had already taken them.

Collingwood knew that their first pick was #30, and I'm sure they had a pretty good idea which players would still be available then if Luke Ball had not been, and Sinclair was the top of that list.

That's why there is a draft order! To say otherwise is to suggest that we wouldn't have taken Tom Scully if available at #62, which is about as preposterous as you can get.

Don't be ridiculous. It's preposterous to even suggest that the club may have felt that Tom Scully would be available at pick #62. Try to keep your examples somewhere within the realm of reality. Anthony Long, Troy Taylor, Matthew Dea, Josh Cowan, Ben Stratton, Michael Barlow, Jason Tutt, Byron Sumner, Justin Bollenhagen and Jack Weston were all possibilities to be drafted by Collingwood, but I believe that Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair and Josh Thomas were ahead of them all on Collingwood's list coming in to the draft.

 

[KissStephanie]

You stated many many many many times that Goldsack was offered to St Kilda and Wellingham was offered to North Melbourne but now you say it was Wellingham being offered to St Kilda.

Sharrod Wellingham and pick #30 were always available to whichever club were going to help Luke Ball get to Collingwood. Not at any stage during trade week did St.Kilda consider Wellingham though because they wanted Brett Peake and Andrew Lovett, so their preference was for a different type of player which included Nathan Brown and Ben Reid, which Collingwood said no to, as well as Tyson Goldsack, and then eventually Andrejs Everitt from the Western Bulldogs.

Is this just a convenient invention because Wellingham is playing seniors?

No, not at all. It's ridiculous for anybody to suggest that Collingwood were prepared to only trade Wellingham to North Melbourne in an attempt to get Luke Ball, but were not prepared to trade him to St.Kilda to get Luke Ball. St.Kilda knew that Wellingham was available to them, but they were not interested. Thank goodness that Collingwood's mistake of shopping Wellingham around did not come back to hurt them!

You afre funny.

Ha ha ha!

Armitage and peake have been great this year

Firstly, Armitage has been okay this year. He did nothing against Sydney (ten disposals including four clangers, and he gave away five free kicks), but he was better against an opposition that didn't even bother turning up last weekend. North Melbourne were so bad that they even made Brett Peake look reasonable. Their performance was worse than Melbourne's in Round 1 against Hawthorn.

what are you on?

Reality pills. You should try them sometime.

Let me guess you think Ball has been better then Armitage and peake in 2010? ha yeah ok

Luke Ball was definitely better than both Armitage and Peake in Round 1. It was a different story last weekend though because Melbourne had targeted Ball from the start of the match. He was dead set in their sights after refusing to talk to them leading up to the National Draft, and almost every possession he got was under extreme pressure. He was pushed and bumped and tackled by more than one player all day which severely effected his output. He kept trying though, and the lesson that Collingwood learned is not to allow that to happen so easily again.

My point though has been that Sharrod Wellingham has certainly been better than David Armitage so far this season, and he should be a St.Kilda player if they knew what they were doing. Armitage has yet to put two good games together in 21 senior matches to date, while Wellingham has done that a number of times in 30 senior matches. Brett Peake on the other hand may be okay against a poor team such as North Melbourne that applied about as much pressure as fairy floss, but he will never take a team to a premiership in finals heat.

I cant wait to smash you on Friday night YET again! I cant wait to hear all the excuses. Even without our CHB and FF we will smash you.

How old are you?

 

[kosifantutti]

Sharrod Wellingham and pick #30 were always available to whichever club were going to help Luke Ball get to Collingwood. Not at any stage during trade week did St.Kilda consider Wellingham though because they wanted Brett Peake and Andrew Lovett, so their preference was for a different type of player which included Nathan Brown and Ben Reid, which Collingwood said no to, as well as Tyson Goldsack, and then eventually Andrejs Everitt from the Western Bulldogs.

In summary, Wellingham was not offered to St Kilda.

 

[kosifantutti]

It was a different story last weekend though because Melbourne had targeted Ball from the start of the match. He was dead set in their sights after refusing to talk to them leading up to the National Draft, and almost every possession he got was under extreme pressure. He was pushed and bumped and tackled by more than one player all day which severely effected his output. He kept trying though, and the lesson that Collingwood learned is not to allow that to happen so easily again.

The sad thing is, I think you believe that.

 

[FuManchu]

In summary, Wellingham was not offered to St Kilda.

In summary, the whole debate is futile.

2 rounds is hardly enough time to make any worthwhile conclusion and who did or didnt get offered up is only speculative as the clubs neither confirm nor deny.

 

[KissStephanie]

In summary, Wellingham was not offered to St Kilda.

The sad thing is, I think you believe that.

The sad thing is, I think you believe that.

Yes I do. I definitely believe that he was in Melbourne's sights. Ball was definitely under extreme pressure every time he had the ball. I thought he kept trying despite that, and lessons were learned to not allow that to happen so easily again.

 

[andypie]

The sad thing is, I think you believe that.

It's not sad, it's actually pretty scary reading some of the logic kissstephanie spews. Not sure why people bother banging their head against the wall.

 

[omit]

Yes I do. I definitely believe that he was in Melbourne's sights. Ball was definitely under extreme pressure every time he had the ball. I thought he kept trying despite that, and lessons were learned to not allow that to happen so easily again.

yes he was under pressure when he got the ball most times. but it wasn't because melbourne were specifically targeting him. Swan on the other hand...

But it's just the way we were playing on saturday, every player was accountable for their direct opponent and as a result we pressured every Collingwood player

Ball being under pressure a lot was a result of his inability to find or make space for himself. he also butchered a kick after taking an uncontested mark

 

[The Fireman]

It was a different story last weekend though because Melbourne had targeted Ball from the start of the match. He was dead set in their sights after refusing to talk to them leading up to the National Draft, and almost every possession he got was under extreme pressure. He was pushed and bumped and tackled by more than one player all day which severely effected his output. He kept trying though, and the lesson that Collingwood learned is not to allow that to happen so easily again.

So reminiscent of Parrot.

 

[KissStephanie]

It's not sad, it's actually pretty scary reading some of the logic kissstephanie spews.

What exactly are you on about? Instead of simply attempting to insult and attack me, do you have any examples of something that you don't agree with? Luke Ball was under extreme pressure against Melbourne last weekend, and I believe he was in their sights before the match. Sharrod Wellingham was offered to St.Kilda, but they were not interested. I believe that Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair and Josh Thomas were at the top of Collingwood's wishlist in the National Draft. Do you disagree with all of that, or is it something else?

Not sure why people bother banging their head against the wall.

Is it because you don't believe that a female should have an opinion on footy? You certainly have not stated anything that you disagree with, so if so, then you absolutely would not be the only one on here that feels that way.

 

[andypie]

What exactly are you on about? Instead of simply attempting to insult and attack me, do you have any examples of something that you don't agree with? Luke Ball was under extreme pressure against Melbourne last weekend, and I believe he was in their sights before the match. Sharrod Wellingham was offered to St.Kilda, but they were not interested. I believe that Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair and Josh Thomas were at the top of Collingwood's wishlist in the National Draft. Do you disagree with all of that, or is it something else?Is it because you don't believe that a female should have an opinion on footy? You certainly have not stated anything that you disagree with, so if so, then you absolutely would not be the only one on here that feels that way.

It's not that your female, it's that you talk rubbish. I dont have the time nor inclination to debate the logic of some of your thinking.
I didnt or wont attack you, as everyone has opinions they are entitled to, no matter how biased and lopsided their arguments are. But their are plenty like that on this site, so enjoy.

 

[LET ME TALK]

Armitage >>>>>>>> Ball

whatever KS. 20% kicking effiency and couldnt kick over 20m in round 2!!! Hows that gonna get better?? The more the year goes on the more fd up ball will get.

Just watch friday night and enjoy everything you see.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Steph, you've completely lost the plot on this one. I have no interest in having to point out to you repeatedly that the world is round. Unfortunately some of your well-made points from earlier in the thread, are going to be lost in a sea of your current drivel. C'est la vie.

 

[KissStephanie]

It's I didnt or wont attack you, as everyone has opinions they are entitled to, no matter how biased and lopsided their arguments are.

You were being contemptuous without adding anything at all to the topic.

Steph, you've completely lost the plot on this one.

Where, when and regarding what?

I have no interest in having to point out to you repeatedly that the world is round.

What is this? What do you mean point out to me repeatedly that the world is round? I am at a complete loss regarding the point you are failing to make. If you're going to disagree with someone in a supercilious fashion, then at least you should mention what it is that you disagree with.

Unfortunately some of your well-made points from earlier in the thread, are going to be lost in a sea of your current drivel. C'est la vie.

I do not know what you consider to be "current drivel" since you will not elaborate. Are you still referring to the list of preferred players that Collingwood had for last years National Draft, or is it something else?

 

[FuManchu]

You were being contemptuous without adding anything at all to the topic.
Where, when and regarding what?
What is this? What do you mean point out to me repeatedly that the world is round? I am at a complete loss regarding the point you are failing to make. If you're going to disagree with someone in a contemptuous fashion, then at least you should mention what it is that you disagree with.I do not know what you consider to be "current drivel" since you will not elaborate. Are you still referring to the list of preferred players that Collingwood had for last years National Draft, or is it something else?

I love it

 

[i_hate_scams]

Please, enlighten me as to how an 18 year old draft pick, who is little to no chance of playing a single game for us will help us win the flag this year?

as i said, this thread is just a waste of time.