Wasted talent at the wrong club ?

[Fastback]

according to Dean Laidley

Jade Rawlings
Nathan Thompson
Lance Picoane
Johnny Hay

 

[Spook]

richo. but if he sticks it out a bit longer he will see some succsess and maybe even a flag.

Do honestly think that the Tigs are a flag chance before Richo hangs em up? He will be 34 before this season starts. So you think the Tigs are a chance in say, the next 3 years?

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Lots of ways to look at it, but I'll take the view of players getting 'stuck', either behind others players, or in positions they aren't ideally suited to.

Tim Boyle - At hawthorn a fringe 3rd tall who won't play much (if at all), even with injuries, yet would be an ideal #2 or #3 for many clubs. As it stands, his career will probably end at the conclusion of 2009.

Tim Clarke - Gut-running midfielder, who was literally the best in the league at it. For two seasons he was Hawthorn's leadup CHF (like O'Keefe, Riewoldt, etc) - and by some statistics (effective i50disposal, score assists) he was amongst the best in the league. With the development of other options (Franklin and Roughead) his role reverted to that of hard-running midfielder, but his skill levels (lack of kicking penetration mostly) didn't fit with the Hawthorn gameplan - and his elite endurance was less of a factor with little/no tagging.

Beau Dowler - Strong lead-up 'Natual' forward, accurate kick. Good motor, but not as strong in contested work. Stuck behind Franklin/Roughead, with a lack of willingness from coaching staff to play a genuine 3rd tall forward.

Mitch Thorp - #1 forward. CHF written all over him, understands the game, and has potentioal to be that 'superstar' forward. Has had to learn about being a part of the plan, rather than being THE plan. May not fit in the same forwardline as Franklin.

Jordan Lewis - Strong inside midfielder, who on rare occassions he has been given an opportunity has generally dominated, however due to others (Hodge/Mitchell/Sewell) ahead of him, and his ability to play as a high HF (overhead marking), he has been shifted out to a position that doesn't really suit his attributes.

Jarryd Roughead - Would be the #1 forward for 12 teams (Brown, Pavlich, Franklin, Fevola ahead of him) and getting all the plaudits. Amazing return for a player, who received only a fraction of the ball his co-forward received.

 

[The Fireman]

Pavlich and Robert Harvey. Both could get a premriship at any other club but they cant and couldnt of in the past

so you are saying that they could get or could have gotten a flag at Freo, Melbourne, Richmond ???

 

[EB&W Pieman]

Taking a slightly different tack, I reckon that any one of Judd, Cousins or Kerr would have done better at most other clubs. I am aware that they all won a flag, and two of them won a Brownlow, but I believe that they was one too many champion midfielders in that team.

Especially since the Eagles so badly lacked a key forward. Had they traded any one of them for Fev in 2005, the two that stayed may have won as many as three premierships.

The other one, of course, would have been stuck at Carlton. But even at that joke of a club, I reckon that Judd has actually enhanced his reputation in his one year there.

Isn't it sad that the best footballer in the land is regarded as a miracle worker by dragging a club up to 13th!!!

 

[blues4flag]

It'd be a crying shame if Pavlich can't take Freo to a flag before his career is over. Not wasted talent as such - I rate him as the game's best CHF so he's definitely fulfilled his potential.

Bruce is another one similar to Pavlich. Though whilst he's a very good footballer, his disposal is not and let's him down time and again.

Wells is one who's been stifled at times under Laidley's gameplan.

Roughead is the obvious one, though I'm not so sure he's complaining given the premiership medallion hanging around his neck.

 

[eldorado]

Jarryd Roughead.

/end thread.

Good one.

You do realise this is not your usual stamping ground, don't you?

Or do you plan to systematically infect ALL the boards with your same brand of lame trolling?

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Are you seriously claiming that Roughead would not give a much greater output as the sole key forward at most other clubs?

I think YOU'RE the one that needs to be reminded where you are! Keep your sooking for Bay 13 thanks.

 

[SELFCONFESDAFLNERD]

Isn't it sad that the best footballer in the land is regarded as a miracle worker by dragging a club up to 13th!!!

Carlton didn't come 13th mate.....

 

[Lotch]

Their are plenty of players careers that will be wasted by the time retire.

Players like Harvey, you would of expected to win a premiership at some stage.

If Freo don't win a premiership with the current squad players like Pavlich, Mcpharlin, Crowley etc have missed out and therefore been "wasted".

In some cases its to hard to tell weather or not their talent has been wasted until they actually retire.

 

[cs61]

Are you seriously claiming that Roughead would not give a much greater output as the sole key forward at most other clubs?

I think YOU'RE the one that needs to be reminded where you are! Keep your sooking for Bay 13 thanks.

He's certainly not 'wasted' at Hawthorn.

Having two key forwards is of great value.

Being a massive cog in the premiership team, I fail to see how he is a prime example of this thread.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

A soft outside receiver like Tambles might look a better footballer surrounded by a tough midfield like Hawthorn's.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

He's certainly not 'wasted' at Hawthorn.

Well, a Hawthorn supporter would most likely think that.

Most of the others players mentioned in this thread would also not be considered "wasted" by their respective clubs.

Having two key forwards is of great value.

From a Hawthorn supporters perspective, yes.

Being a massive cog in the premiership team, I fail to see how he is a prime example of this thread.

Because you are completely biased.

Roughead would kick 100 goals a season at most other clubs. Playing alongside Franklin is going to cost him money, Coleman Medals and a better overall record.

 

[Bomber Man]

Daniel Bradshaw had to be heading to take out this award for a long time, he always showed the high level talent he had for goal kicking when played forward but was for years a solid defender given spurts in front of goal.

IMO could possibly have kicked a ton at another club by now.

Has anyone gone anywhere near a Cousins joke on the "wasted" line yet..?

 

[fishguts]

Jarryd Roughead - Would be the #1 forward for 12 teams (Brown, Pavlich, Franklin, Fevola ahead of him) and getting all the plaudits. Amazing return for a player, who received only a fraction of the ball his co-forward received.

Lloyd and Riewoldt are ahead of him.

 

[Lockyer24]

From us I think Josh Fraser would be a much more damaging player if he played at a club with a solid first ruckman, and he was allowed to play as a 3/4 time forward and 1/4 time ruck.

 

[cs61]

Well, a Hawthorn supporter would most likely think that.

great argument

Most of the others players mentioned in this thread would also not be considered "wasted" by their respective clubs.

that doesn't mean Roughead is a good example, again a nothing argument.

From a Hawthorn supporters perspective, yes.

More substance from Mario......

Because you are completely biased.

Roughead would kick 100 goals a season at most other clubs. Playing alongside Franklin is going to cost him money, Coleman Medals and a better overall record.

2 key forwards lead to a premiership win, and you are saying it is 'wasted' because he could have kicked more individual goals at another club.......

You reckon he wants the coleman medal, or the premiership medal?

He plays a completely different game to Franklin so they compliment each other.

Its not like having Dunstall and Lockett in the same side, so one is crowding the other. Its a great combination, and perhaps Franklin makes Roughead's job slightly easier by dragging players away for him.

If Fevola had a another key forward at the club, he would most likely kick less goals, but Carlton would be better off. Is he 'wasted' there then if another forward comes, or does he go somewhere else where he is better off as they rely entirely relies on him?

 

[nufan_tigers]

I think Jared Brennan is at the wrong club personally.
He is a great talent of a footballer but is really cocky and inconsistant. I beleive this is due to the fact that he began his career when the Lions were still at the top and had players that made him look good and now he is complacent and does enough to get by.

If he started at a week club that he had to help build up he would be a far better footballer for it. I was very excited at the end of last season when he was thinking about going into the pre-season draft because at a team like Richmond or Carlton he could be an absolute gun

 

[Hollow Knight]

I think Jared Brennan is at the wrong club personally.
He is a great talent of a footballer but is really cocky and inconsistant. I beleive this is due to the fact that he began his career when the Lions were still at the top and had players that made him look good and now he is complacent and does enough to get by.

If he started at a week club that he had to help build up he would be a far better footballer for it. I was very excited at the end of last season when he was thinking about going into the pre-season draft because at a team like Richmond or Carlton he could be an absolute gun

Anyone who thinks Brennan is cocky is utterly, utterly clueless. He is so shy in real life that he can barely even squeak out a sentence in an interview.

As for his performance, he finally arrived in 2008, it just took him time to adapt to a professional level, has nothing to do with what club he is at. Finished top 5 in the 2008 B&F and will be even better again this year. Just because you rarely see the Lions play isn't an excuse for just judging players on their 2004 reputation.

Contrary to what you reckon, I think going to a Melbourne club would have been the worst thing for him. At the very least, I fail to see how going to Carlton or Richmond would suddenly make him a much better player. Especially after seeing what Richmond's development system did for similar "players with flair" in JON and Tambling.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

great argument

Not really, but simple concepts require simple answers.

You reckon he wants the coleman medal, or the premiership medal?

A premiership medal. Now he's got that I imagine he'd quite fancy a Coleman Medal.

He plays a completely different game to Franklin so they compliment each other.

Somewhat. Other than the fact they both play the same position.

Its not like having Dunstall and Lockett in the same side.

Actually, it's very similiar to that.

If Fevola had a another key forward at the club, he would most likely kick less goals, but Carlton would be better off. Is he 'wasted' there then if another forward comes, or does he go somewhere else where he is better off as they rely entirely relies on him?

Get the flag then nick off to where his career can best prosper.

 

[eldorado]

Are you seriously claiming that Roughead would not give a much greater output as the sole key forward at most other clubs?

I think YOU'RE the one that needs to be reminded where you are! Keep your sooking for Bay 13 thanks.

Hmm, ok..I'll take the bait.

Much greater output. Sole key forward.

Ok.

Being double teamed every week, by the best defender and someone else. He would actually have much greater output, by your simple reckoning.

Or at Hawthorn, with every man and his dog on Buddy. Roughy gets the third stringer.

I think his output is pretty spot-on, at 75 goals.

But thanks for thinking of us...again

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

This thread has Danial Wells writing all over it.

 

[notting18]

Daniel Bradshaw had to be heading to take out this award for a long time, he always showed the high level talent he had for goal kicking when played forward but was for years a solid defender given spurts in front of goal.

IMO could possibly have kicked a ton at another club by now.

Bradshaw only really played back for parts of 2003 through 2005. He was mainly a forward who was only trialled as a defender as he couldn't get a game ahead of Lynch or Brown.

 

[NQ Hawk]

I rate Wonnaeamirri (sp) highly, would like to see how he goes with more effective and frequent delivery into the foreward line.

 

[WEARECOLLINGWOOD!]

chris judd