Wasted talent at the wrong club ?

[Danog]

Do honestly think that the Tigs are a flag chance before Richo hangs em up? He will be 34 before this season starts. So you think the Tigs are a chance in say, the next 3 years?

I think we're a good chance in 2010, to be honest.

 

[medusala]

Roughead would kick 100 goals a season at most other clubs. Playing alongside Franklin is going to cost him money, Coleman Medals and a better overall record.

Dermott must surely regret his years at the Hawks given he played alongside Dunstall.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Daniel Wells is someone who should think of changing clubs.

IMO has so much natural talent, but hasn't really quite stamped his authority as he could, and I think a breath of a fresh air would be good for him, and perhaps play under a more attacking coach.

Harris from North too is another I think would do a lot better at another club. I thought Port Adelaide would be a good fit for him.

I agree with Bruce and Dal Santo, I think they are wasted a little bit there, but both seem too loyal to leave their clubs.

I think Pavlich is a waste given I just can't see Freo going anywhere. He could take many other sides in to premiership contention, and he would rise to another level with better players around him. I think he is arguably the best player in the comp when up and running given how good he is in many parts of the ground. Would be certainly more respected at another club too, because IMO his ability gets under-stated a little given how often he is left out of best player in the competition talk.

A more attacking coach? Brent Harvey doesnt seem to have a problem starring at North under Laidley.

 

[DarwinRoo]

This thread has Danial Wells writing all over it.

He would make a real go of it at the Dogs just like Birss, Power, Ray and McMahon.

 

[DarwinRoo]

It'd be a crying shame if Pavlich can't take Freo to a flag before his career is over. Not wasted talent as such - I rate him as the game's best CHF so he's definitely fulfilled his potential.

Bruce is another one similar to Pavlich. Though whilst he's a very good footballer, his disposal is not and let's him down time and again.

Wells is one who's been stifled at times under Laidley's gameplan.

Roughead is the obvious one, though I'm not so sure he's complaining given the premiership medallion hanging around his neck.

Absolute crap.

 

[hawks of war 2009]

Gary Ablett SNR at Hawthorn during the early 80's. Did not much at the Hawks moved to Geelong and became a superstar. If he had of stayed maybe he would have had 4-5 premierships, maybe he would have dissappeared into the wilderness.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Dermott must surely regret his years at the Hawks given he played alongside Dunstall.

Brereton is a different case altogether. Unlike Roughead and Franklin, Brereton WAS a centre half forward.

 

[winty]

Lots of ways to look at it, but I'll take the view of players getting 'stuck', either behind others players, or in positions they aren't ideally suited to.

Tim Boyle - At hawthorn a fringe 3rd tall who won't play much (if at all), even with injuries, yet would be an ideal #2 or #3 for many clubs. As it stands, his career will probably end at the conclusion of 2009.

Tim Clarke - Gut-running midfielder, who was literally the best in the league at it. For two seasons he was Hawthorn's leadup CHF (like O'Keefe, Riewoldt, etc) - and by some statistics (effective i50disposal, score assists) he was amongst the best in the league. With the development of other options (Franklin and Roughead) his role reverted to that of hard-running midfielder, but his skill levels (lack of kicking penetration mostly) didn't fit with the Hawthorn gameplan - and his elite endurance was less of a factor with little/no tagging.

Beau Dowler - Strong lead-up 'Natual' forward, accurate kick. Good motor, but not as strong in contested work. Stuck behind Franklin/Roughead, with a lack of willingness from coaching staff to play a genuine 3rd tall forward.

Mitch Thorp - #1 forward. CHF written all over him, understands the game, and has potentioal to be that 'superstar' forward. Has had to learn about being a part of the plan, rather than being THE plan. May not fit in the same forwardline as Franklin.

Jordan Lewis - Strong inside midfielder, who on rare occassions he has been given an opportunity has generally dominated, however due to others (Hodge/Mitchell/Sewell) ahead of him, and his ability to play as a high HF (overhead marking), he has been shifted out to a position that doesn't really suit his attributes.

Jarryd Roughead - Would be the #1 forward for 12 teams (Brown, Pavlich, Franklin, Fevola ahead of him) and getting all the plaudits. Amazing return for a player, who received only a fraction of the ball his co-forward received.

With depth like that, it's a wonder Box Hill are a basket case season in, season out.

 

[purple hater]

Taking a slightly different tack, I reckon that any one of Judd, Cousins or Kerr would have done better at most other clubs. I am aware that they all won a flag, and two of them won a Brownlow, but I believe that they was one too many champion midfielders in that team.

Especially since the Eagles so badly lacked a key forward. Had they traded any one of them for Fev in 2005, the two that stayed may have won as many as three premierships.

See some of us might look at that situation slightly differently.

If one of them (hell would have been nice to have all three!) were fit to play Collingwood in the 2007 final the result would likely have been very different. If they all played, there is no-one to say West Coast couldn't have knocked out Geelong in the prelim that year (they were beatable in that game). That would have given them a shot at their third GF in three years.

Of course had they stuck together, there is no reason why they couldn't have gone on to many more as well. Our KPP and the best ruck in the country, are coming into their prime now and Judd and Kerr are still only, what, 25?

The most heart breaking thing about following West Coast during this time is when you consider these things and ask yourself what could have been?

In answer to the question originally posed, Pavlich is the most obvious answer.

Put Pavlich in the 05 /06 Crows Prelim team and they would have gone on to win two premierships.

Not really upset that it never happened that way!

 

[Power King]

I thought this was about players with talent that haven't reached their potential.

Pavlich has reached his potential, it's just that his team never has.

First thought to come to mind when seeing the thread title was Tambling and Richmond.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

With depth like that, it's a wonder Box Hill are a basket case season in, season out.

Box Hill's problem hasn't been the AFL associated players, it's been the $0 spent on the VFL side. I read somewhere that there's something like 25 ex-box hill players now playing seniors at SANFL/WAFL/VFL level.

Basically every year there were 3-4 topliners leaving, and maybe one coming in.

Roughead/Lewis are allready going very well at AFL level, but both could be higher rated if given prominence in their teams.

Boyle/Clarke are both good enough to be playing solid AFL year round, but neither will get the opportunity.

So we're down to Thorp/Dowler - both have had significant injury woes, and been forced to play other positions than their natural ones (forward) as we had/ve a misbalance on our list, due to drafting by attributes rather than positional understanding.

This year is the first I can recall where we've brought more 'good' players in than lost (mainly as there wasn't much in the way of 'good' players last two years).

I'm sure there are ~25 players on Geelong's list that would be playing every week somewhere.

 

[winty]

Box Hill's problem hasn't been the AFL associated players, it's been the $0 spent on the VFL side. I read somewhere that there's something like 25 ex-box hill players now playing seniors at SANFL/WAFL/VFL level.

Basically every year there were 3-4 topliners leaving, and maybe one coming in.

Roughead/Lewis are allready going very well at AFL level, but both could be higher rated if given prominence in their teams.

Boyle/Clarke are both good enough to be playing solid AFL year round, but neither will get the opportunity.

So we're down to Thorp/Dowler - both have had significant injury woes, and been forced to play other positions than their natural ones (forward) as we had/ve a misbalance on our list, due to drafting by attributes rather than positional understanding.

This year is the first I can recall where we've brought more 'good' players in than lost (mainly as there wasn't much in the way of 'good' players last two years).

I'm sure there are ~25 players on Geelong's list that would be playing every week somewhere.

That'd be a bit worrying from a development point of view. Have the Hawks looked into following Geelong's and Collingwood's lead, and having a stand-alone VFL side? Surely with all the assets and the profit Hawthorn made, this would be a more than viable option.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I think the issue was more that Box Hill has been following the VFL Salary "Cap" - it IS only an advisory (and from what one person said most teams are well over).

Under Schwab there was a strong negative correlation between Box Hill and Hawks (when BH won premiership, Hawks were crap, when Hawks were in finals, BH were crap) - with Clarkson it's been the opposite - both very average, both showing signs of improvement, Hawthorn obviously a year or two more advanced.

 

[cs61]

A more attacking coach? Brent Harvey doesnt seem to have a problem starring at North under Laidley.

Great argument, Harvey does well at North, therefore every other player is a perfect fit for North?

I don't think you'd find many opposition supporters that don't think Wells could do with a change of scenery to ignite his career.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Great argument, Harvey does well at North, therefore every other player is a perfect fit for North?

I don't think you'd find many opposition supporters that don't think Wells could do with a change of scenery to ignite his career.

They play a similar role as outside mids.

Ignite his career? Averaging 25 disposals in the last half of 2008 is somehow inadequate is it?

Wells needs more help from teammates rather than a change of scenery.

 

[blues4flag]

Absolute crap.

I've watched Wells closely over his career and while he improved in 07 and had a very good 08, prior to that he definitely appeared tentative and unsure of himself at times.

 

[Bollox]

You're kidding aren't you. Melbourne has played in 5 final series since Cam Bruce has been at the club. And while we haven't achieved the ultimate success, Cameron has played a major role in teams that have been very competitive. He is now our VC, our current best and fairest winner and a fantastic role model for our very good young kids. If you think his talent has been wasted, you obviously know nothing about the game!!!

So..Cam Bruce has achieved BnF's and is now Vice Captain and a "fantastic role model" for your young kids.

Who could possibly want for more when you're that talented.

If only more people actually remembered his name when talking about the best players in the game. I certainly do...but thats a bit of a sign isnt it ?

Sorry...but u wont convince me Cam Bruce has achieved anywhere near as much as he could have elsewhere..or be noticed and recognised as much. We're talking about one of the games truly great players and he gets mentioned in passing about once a month.

Terrible when the thing most people seem to remember about Cam Bruce is how he was once motoring early season and an early brownlow contender before being bulldogged and broken by Guerra. He plays his guts out and noone from other clubs notice it much...why ?...coz he's a wasted talent at the Dees that hasnt achieved anywhere near what his talent deserves.

Of course thats just the opinion of a chardonnay sipping Oxford St bandwagonning purse carrying nancy boy though...u may feel differently about it.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Seaby. Could hold down #1 ruck at most clubs.

 

[__aria__]

Seaby. Could hold down #1 ruck at most clubs.

Very funny joke you made there.

 

[AstroboyUK]

Anyone with talent that's played for Richmond in the last 25 years.

So Richo and...

Hard to argue with that: the one really big example in my view is Brad Ottens. He arrived as a 19year old with 'star' written all over him. He could have been anything. One of those players you can just 'see' has 'it'. We totally failed to develop that potential and as a result completely stunted his career. Im glad he has kicked on to some degree at Geelong; but really he is still only half the player he might have been had he fallen into a different development system.

 

[pazza]

Murphy and Gibbs. Have had way too much pressure put on them at Carlton and would have been better served without that pressure.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Murphy and Gibbs. Have had way too much pressure put on them at Carlton and would have been better served without that pressure.

Maybe they just aren't as good as initially hoped. Certainly Gibbs looks like he would have benefited from a year putting on weight in the 2's.

 

[Hinkley29]

Lloyd and Riewoldt are ahead of him.

Riewoldt yes, Lloyd....no way

 

[bulldogdan]

He would make a real go of it at the Dogs just like Birss, Power, Ray and McMahon.

wow!!! i forgot how well birss, power and mc mahons careers went after leaving the dogs.........

how did we ever let these match winners slip through our fingers???!!!

 

[Blues_Man]

This thread has Danial Wells writing all over it.

Chris Grant you mean ..would have acheived a lot more at a decent club than the poor old dogs.