Watson and Bombers have a 'fighting chance'

[sherb]

And agin

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...guinea-pigs-20130629-2p3x2.html#ixzz2XeKNg1y6

Thankfully even though Danks experiments were uncontrolled by anyone at the club theyve had positive news from field experts.

On the issue of players' health, on the surface it's pleasing that the club has received advice which gives them comfort about their wellbeing.

But to give those assurances, the experts involved would have to know what substances were administered. I thought the exact nature of what was administered was uncertain? Or has it been established now?

They would also have to know the medium to long term health effects on people of each substance in isolation and also of each substance in combination with each other (if multiple drugs were administered to individuals).

I don't see how they could possibly do that, given that the nature of this programme was clearly experimental and that the effects of the drugs involved only appear to be known to varying degrees.

Perhaps that's why the feedback only gives Essendon "comfort" and not outright assurances. And why the various parties mentioned in that article are expressing concern over player welfare.

Unfortunately, it may take years to find out whether the individuals who have been pumped with this stuff have had their health adversely affected or not.

 

[Tiger08]

True, steroids are used to aid recovery but also increase performance beyond base levels. There's been no data suggesting AOD can do this and according to an expert in this area its highly unlikely

My point was that Dank was probably doing trials within the playing group to demonstrate performance over base levels. Then he was trying to sell it to Hird and Evans and get them to invest in the company where he was getting it from.

 

[pinot]

True, steroids are used to aid recovery but also increase performance beyond base levels. There's been no data suggesting AOD can do this and according to an expert in this area its highly unlikely

I am sure ASADA will be scoping in all medical records including muscle mass, endurance, recovery etc

 

[LanceRomance]

This particular stance will lose its legs quickly if the latest Age article (baker/Mackenzie) is accurate.

 

[mxett]

My point was that Dank was probably doing trials within the playing group to demonstrate performance over base levels. Then he was trying to sell it to Hird and Evans and get them to invest in the company where he was getting it from.

That's and interesting theory. Whatever it was it appears maybe Reid approved of the use of AOD but the club were unaware how Dank was using it.

 

[Tiger08]

That's and interesting theory. Whatever it was it appears maybe Reid approved of the use of AOD but the club were unaware how Dank was using it.

Not really my theory but what I think the Age is hinting at in their article..

 

[Bombfire]

At least this is my team! Whats the excuse of all the obsessed haters?

Nailed it. The haters have only one thing in mind and it's not really the preservation of integrity of the game. It's the exclusion of EFC from draft picks so that the club is considerably weakened. All this hate generated on the back of an incomplete ASADA investigation and fuelled by regular snippets of nothing new newspaper articles. When you get this much hate against EFC you know we're winning again, and they're is genuine fear in the AFL landscape of the giant stirring.

 

[Bombfire]

It doesn't matter if his performance is enhanced or not.
You take a cold and flu tablet you get nailed under the code.
Banned is banned is banned. Why do you not understand this?
It doesn't matter if AOD is a placebo and safe to inject a pregnant women. It's on the banned list, so you can't take it.
It's performance enhancing abilities are not relevant and I'd wish you stop saying it as a defence because you look silly.

As if you would be so hysterical if they detected a cold or flu tablet.

 

[Bombfire]

And the fact Jobe isnt facing an infraction now confirms the claim this is a lot more involved than we know, and also maybe the fact they believe his performance hasn't been enhanced, certainly not for this season.

I also want this over now. If players deserve a ban then so be it. But ASADA are the ones in control and theyre not moving to sanction players yet. In the words of Neil Craig, don't judge Jobe just yet, there's a lot more information to come out that we don't know about.

Craig is a quality football person. The mob should really reflect on what he said the other day. Would be a wake up call, but hate is hard to extinguish, especially when accompanied by jealousy.

 

[Southern Urchins]

Nailed it. The haters have only one thing in mind and it's not really the preservation of integrity of the game. It's the exclusion of EFC from draft picks so that the club is considerably weakened. All this hate generated on the back of an incomplete ASADA investigation and fuelled by regular snippets of nothing new newspaper articles. When you get this much hate against EFC you know we're winning again, and they're is genuine fear in the AFL landscape of the giant stirring.

Maybe you can answer the question the mxett choose to avoid twice.
How would you feel if this was Dane Swan, Chris Judd or Lance Franklin?
How would you feel if you lose a final or Grand final to a side with one of these players playing a starring role, after admitting use of a BANNED substance?
Take your bias out of this for 2 seconds please.

 

[Southern Urchins]

Craig is a quality football person. The mob should really reflect on what he said the other day. Would be a wake up call, but hate is hard to extinguish, especially when accompanied by jealousy.

Jealousy? Your arrogance is amazing!

 

[mxett]

Not really my theory but what I think the Age is hinting at in their article..

As I posted in another thread, did Jobe actually have AOD? He never stated he did. He said he believed it was AOD that he was receiving

 

[mxett]

Maybe you can answer the question the mxett choose to avoid twice.
How would you feel if this was Dane Swan, Chris Judd or Lance Franklin?
How would you feel if you lose a final or Grand final to a side with one of these players playing a starring role, after admitting use of a BANNED substance?
Take your bias out of this for 2 seconds please.

Depends if it enhanced performance above their base level

 

[Lance Uppercut]

It doesn't matter if his performance is enhanced or not.
You take a cold and flu tablet you get nailed under the code.
Banned is banned is banned. Why do you not understand this?
It doesn't matter if AOD is a placebo and safe to inject a pregnant women. It's on the banned list, so you can't take it.
It's performance enhancing abilities are not relevant and I'd wish you stop saying it as a defence because you look silly.

Actually, it can matter greatly vis a vis punishment

 

[Bombfire]

Maybe you can answer the question the mxett choose to avoid twice.
How would you feel if this was Dane Swan, Chris Judd or Lance Franklin?
How would you feel if you lose a final or Grand final to a side with one of these players playing a starring role, after admitting use of a BANNED substance?
Take your bias out of this for 2 seconds please.

There is certainly some irony in the players you've nominated, but I'd be curious to know what the outcome of the investigation was. If they played in a GF then I presume they would have been exonerated. If so, carry on. I also presume in this case the relevant parties would act, if required, before any finals are underway. Sorry, but my bias was excluded for a lot more than 2 seconds.

 

[tigerdan]

Agree. I'm pretty shocked by today's story, but in a way it makes a few things a bit clearer. Dank was given approval to use AOD by Reid but it appears he then began his own experiments and excluded Doc Reid. As Ziggys report indicated, the club failed to oversee Danks work putting player health at risk.

No wonder Tim Watson indicated the club would see sanctions. No wonder McVeigh came out of his meeting with ASADA fuming.

Unfortunately both Reid and Dank were part of the broader 'Essendon'. You can't just paint Dank as external to Essendon when the offences occurred. The point being that 'Essendon' stuffed up and it will be the club that has to pay the penalty in addition to the players.

 

[Southern Urchins]

Depends if it enhanced performance above their base level

rinse repeat.
what is the enhanced performance of a diuretic?

 

[Southern Urchins]

Actually, it can matter greatly vis a vis punishment

It matters for strength of punishment, not guilt or innocence.
It's banned, you can't take it, players have.
They should not be allowed to play atm.

 

[Tazmania]

Looks like the Dons could very well be exonerated according to the sage words of a Sydney lawyer.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watson-and-bombers-have-a-fighting-chance-20130628-2p2wt.html

It's a shame this lawyer has selectively quoted the ACC report by forgetting to mention that in every instance where the report says 'Not Prohibited' it is followed very closely by 'not approved for human use'

Therefore Asada provided the correct advice all along. If they provided similar advice to essendon then they are perfectly correct.

 

[tigerdan]

That's and interesting theory. Whatever it was it appears maybe Reid approved of the use of AOD but the club were unaware how Dank was using it.

Do you think it really matters who at Essendon approved it from the point of view of sanctions?

And yes, assuming that there is no magical letter from ASADA allowing it to be used.

 

[mxett]

Do you think it really matters who at Essendon approved it from the point of view of sanctions?

And yes, assuming that there is no magical letter from ASADA allowing it to be used.

Not really. Although I'm more confident there is something behind the clubs claims they used AOD within the rules if Doc Reid was involved given his integrity is well known and he knows the WADA code better than anyone else at the club.

 

[Greggy Dee]

rinse repeat.
what is the enhanced performance of a diuretic?

It enhances performance by disguising the use of steroids and other PEDs.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

It matters for strength of punishment, not guilt or innocence.
It's banned, you can't take it, players have.
They should not be allowed to play atm.

if they determine a reprimand is appropriate then it doesn't really matter

 

[rose jam]

if they determine a reprimand is appropriate then it doesn't really matter

They'll be widespread players bans, lost draft picks, lost premiership points, fines, and club sackings.

How do I know?

Because players took prohibited substances. When you sign up to the WADA code there are no excuses. Just check any other sporting code in the world.

 

[coolangatta_kid]

I think the players will escape bans due to 'mitigating circumstances'.

Those circumstances being used as guinea pigs in a pharmacological experiment that has put their short and long term health in jeopardy.

But the club will be punished severely, and Hird will be banished from the game of Aussie Rules forever.