Watson and Bombers have a 'fighting chance'

[Southern Urchins]

They aren't looking for loopholes. Doc Reid allowed the use of AOD because he believed it was safe and compliant to use before they used it

So why did he write a letter to the board about "Irregular practices"?
Why has Robinson been stood down pending an investigation and Dank sacked?
Why have they not been afforded the same presumption of innocence and the players?
If Essendon are confident they will be cleared, why was Robbo sacked?

 

[mxett]

And what people think equals the integrity of the game. The Mums and Dads, the sponsors, the rank and file etc.
I don't care if Essendon is top or bottom. If they took a banned substances (which Jobe did by his own admissions), they need to face a tribunal now!

At such a hearing, Jobe can mitigate away before they consider punishment. But the FACT remains, he's admitted use and should face an infraction immediately.

Again, you're obsessing over troll bait. And again, would you be so strong on defence if this was Chris Judd, Dane Swan or Lance Franklin?

Maybe the club are just dirty rotten cheats like Lance Armstrong? Maybe Dank lied? Maybe they are ignorant? Who knows? But how is that relevant to Jobe and the other consumers of this substance still playing? If this was Sydney who we just lost a Grand Final to I'd be 10 times more filthy. No sanction would be of comfort to anyone at Hawthorn. Let's prevent such a situation from occurring by acting now!

And the fact Jobe isnt facing an infraction now confirms the claim this is a lot more involved than we know, and also maybe the fact they believe his performance hasn't been enhanced, certainly not for this season.

I also want this over now. If players deserve a ban then so be it. But ASADA are the ones in control and theyre not moving to sanction players yet. In the words of Neil Craig, don't judge Jobe just yet, there's a lot more information to come out that we don't know about.

 

[Southern Urchins]

And the fact Jobe isnt facing an infraction now confirms the claim this is a lot more involved than we know, and also maybe the fact they believe his performance hasn't been enhanced, certainly not for this season.

I also want this over now. If players deserve a ban then so be it. But ASADA are the ones in control and theyre not moving to sanction players yet. In the words of Neil Craig, don't judge Jobe just yet, there's a lot more information to come out that we don't know about.

It doesn't matter if his performance is enhanced or not.
You take a cold and flu tablet you get nailed under the code.
Banned is banned is banned. Why do you not understand this?
It doesn't matter if AOD is a placebo and safe to inject a pregnant women. It's on the banned list, so you can't take it.
It's performance enhancing abilities are not relevant and I'd wish you stop saying it as a defence because you look silly.

 

[Snake_Baker]

At least this is my team! Whats the excuse of all the obsessed haters?

Finally, it's come to this.

The excuse of what you describe as "the obsessed haters", is that this goes beyond the EFC and strikes at the very heart of the entire competition which consists of "the obsessed haters"


Your club is responsible for compromising an entire football season, the highest award in the AFL, the draft and this continues in an ongoing manner. The entire competition has been undermined and shamed by the actions of your club. You seem to be completely incapable of understanding how the ramifications of the actions of your club has detrimentally affected others. The DSM IV manual has a classification for this kind of behavior.

 

[mxett]

So why did he write a letter to the board about "Irregular practices"?
Why has Robinson been stood down pending an investigation and Dank sacked?
Why have they not been afforded the same presumption of innocence and the players?
If Essendon are confident they will be cleared, why was Robbo sacked?

I think the story in the AGE today may be an indication. It was confirmed by Jobe that AOD was passed for use but it appears Dank then excluded Doc Reid from involvement in the program and did as he liked, using doses of AOD that were way beyond those claimed safe in clinical trials.

Essendon Football Club said it had no knowledge of any such trial. ''The club has no knowledge of any 'clinical trial' and if this is found to be true, it is deeply distressing and disturbing, and goes to the heart of what may have been perpetrated at our club.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...guinea-pigs-20130629-2p3x2.html#ixzz2XeGrg8Xl

 

[pinot]

It will be interesting to see what Hird says in the press conference when explaining the banning.

"I apologise to everybody for todays events but I still believe I did nothing wrong. I now have raw medical records on key players on what AOD can really do - I am looking forward to the next chapter in my life making squillions"

 

[mxett]

Finally, it's come to this.

The exuse of what you describe as "the obsessed haters" as you call them is that this goes beyond the EFC and strikes at the very heart of the entire competition which consists of "the obsessed haters"

You seem to be completely incapable of understanding how the ramifications of the actions of your club has detrimentally affected others. The DSM IV manual has a classification for this kind of behavior.

If this topic was discussed in a mature and constructive way it wouldn't degenerate to an us v them troll fest from both sides. Instead we have complete assumptions and accusations that the entire Essendon club planned to use Hexarelin and thymosin beta 4, and posts of glee at possible 2 yr bans.

I would call these haters which affectively ends any genuine discussion

 

[SunshineBoy]

I think the story in the AGE today may be an indication. It was confirmed by Jobe that AOD was passed for use but it appears Dank then excluded Doc Reid from involvement in the program and did as he liked, using doses of AOD that were way beyond those claimed safe in clinical trials.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...guinea-pigs-20130629-2p3x2.html#ixzz2XeGrg8Xl

Where does it say it was passed for use?

 

[Tiger08]

I think the story in the AGE today may be an indication. It was confirmed by Jobe that AOD was passed for use but it appears Dank then excluded Doc Reid from involvement in the program and did as he liked, using doses of AOD that were way beyond those claimed safe in clinical trials.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...guinea-pigs-20130629-2p3x2.html#ixzz2XeGrg8Xl

I'm sorry mxett but while all this was going on, Dank was part of the Essendon Football Club.

Essendon did not only have knowledge of the trial, it was running the trial. You can't just sack someone and say "well that wasn't us..".

That's pretty disgusting what they were doing there. The AFLPA should be making a lot more noise than they are..

 

[Snake_Baker]

If this topic was discussed in a mature and constructive way it wouldn't degenerate to an us v them troll fest from both sides. Instead we have complete assumptions and accusations that the entire Essendon club planned to use Hexarelin and thymosin beta 4, and posts of glee at possible 2 yr bans.

I would call these haters which affectively ends any genuine discussion

You are completely incapable of the concept.

You have stunk up this forum with rubbish, diversion and personal snipes from day one.

 

[mxett]

It doesn't matter if his performance is enhanced or not.
You take a cold and flu tablet you get nailed under the code.
Banned is banned is banned. Why do you not understand this?
It doesn't matter if AOD is a placebo and safe to inject a pregnant women. It's on the banned list, so you can't take it.
It's performance enhancing abilities are not relevant and I'd wish you stop saying it as a defence because you look silly.

No, it matters. Part of s0 describes the affect of any substance and offers a potential reprimand if they can demonstrate how they received the substance and it was performance enhancing.

Vijay Singhs case is also relevant because he admitted to taking a banned substance but wasnt sanctioned because it was shown the amount of performance enhancement was negligible.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I'm sorry mxett but while all this was going on, Dank was part of the Essendon Football Club.

Essendon did not only have knowledge of the trial, it was running the trial. You can't just sack someone and say "well that wasn't us..".

That's pretty disgusting what they were doing there. The AFLPA should be making a lot more noise than they are..

If the current absurd essendon defence passes, then the monitoring of drugs in sport will become completely redundant. This is why the rules are set in a fashion that places a very high level of responsibility on the individual player. "I'm just a dumb jock and the guy with the degree told me what to do", cannot fly. It makes the entire system unworkable. mxett and a few others seem to be totally incapable of understanding this concept. They can only see the essendon angle.

Players from the EFC are stone cold guilty. The mitigatory circumstances are the only things left that are in issue.

 

[sherb]

I think the story in the AGE today may be an indication. It was confirmed by Jobe that AOD was passed for use but it appears Dank then excluded Doc Reid from involvement in the program and did as he liked, using doses of AOD that were way beyond those claimed safe in clinical trials.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...guinea-pigs-20130629-2p3x2.html#ixzz2XeGrg8Xl

From the same article:

"While Watson's admission last week that he was injected with AOD-9604 - which is banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency because it is not approved for human use - has fuelled debate about possible player sanctions and Brownlow Medal revocation, the issue causing greater concern among AFL powerbrokers, the players' association and anti-doping investigators is that of player welfare."


Looks like the haters, trolls and bleeding hearts who dared bring up the issue of player health here have muscled their way out of BigFooty and have infiltrated the ranks of the AFLPA, the investigation team and - heaven forbid - the AFL itself.

​

How dare they think of the children. How dare they. ​

​

 

[mxett]

I'm sorry mxett but while all this was going on, Dank was part of the Essendon Football Club.

Essendon did not only have knowledge of the trial, it was running the trial. You can't just sack someone and say "well that wasn't us..".

That's pretty disgusting what they were doing there. The AFLPA should be making a lot more noise than they are..

Agree. I'm pretty shocked by today's story, but in a way it makes a few things a bit clearer. Dank was given approval to use AOD by Reid but it appears he then began his own experiments and excluded Doc Reid. As Ziggys report indicated, the club failed to oversee Danks work putting player health at risk.

No wonder Tim Watson indicated the club would see sanctions. No wonder McVeigh came out of his meeting with ASADA fuming.

 

[Tiger08]

No, it matters. Part of s0 describes the affect of any substance and offers a potential reprimand if they can demonstrate how they received the substance and it was performance enhancing.

Vijay Singhs case is also relevant because he admitted to taking a banned substance but wasnt sanctioned because it was shown the amount of performance enhancement was negligible.

Fortunately for us (according to The Age) it appears that Stephen Dank might have been running trials within the playing group to demonstrate just how effective AOD is in improving performance. Given that it seems he was also trying to get Hird and Evans to invest in the company that makes it, I have a pretty good idea what those trials would show..

 

[Snake_Baker]

From the same article:

"While Watson's admission last week that he was injected with AOD-9604 - which is banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency because it is not approved for human use - has fuelled debate about possible player sanctions and Brownlow Medal revocation, the issue causing greater concern among AFL powerbrokers, the players' association and anti-doping investigators is that of player welfare."


Looks like the haters, trolls and bleeding hearts who dared bring up the issue of player health here have muscled their way out of BigFooty and have infiltrated the ranks of the AFLPA, the investigation team and - heaven forbid - the AFL itself.

How dare they think of the children. How dare they.

It's now obvious that the hammer has come down and everyone is scrambling to gain better positions.

This may get to the point where the AFL itself cuts them adrift. Some huge health based lawsuits could arise out of this.

 

[mxett]

From the same article:

"While Watson's admission last week that he was injected with AOD-9604 - which is banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency because it is not approved for human use - has fuelled debate about possible player sanctions and Brownlow Medal revocation, the issue causing greater concern among AFL powerbrokers, the players' association and anti-doping investigators is that of player welfare."


Looks like the haters, trolls and bleeding hearts who dared bring up the issue of player health here have muscled their way out of BigFooty and have infiltrated the ranks of the AFLPA, the investigation team and - heaven forbid - the AFL itself.

​

How dare they think of the children. How dare they. ​

​

And agin

''We are in the hands of ASADA and we continue to support our players during this process and we have brought in independent medical and pharmacological advice which has provided comfort to the club about the safety of our players.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...guinea-pigs-20130629-2p3x2.html#ixzz2XeKNg1y6

Thankfully even though Danks experiments were uncontrolled by anyone at the club theyve had positive news from field experts.

 

[mxett]

Fortunately for us (according to The Age) it appears that Stephen Dank might have been running trials within the playing group to demonstrate just how effective AOD is in improving performance. Given that it seems he was also trying to get Hird and Evans to invest in the company that makes it, I have a pretty good idea what those trials would show..

Yes, what?

According to ASADA they are investigating the results of Danks trials.

 

[Tiger08]

Yes, what?

According to ASADA they are investigating the results of Danks trials.

You don't try to get people to invest in products that don't work..

Whether it was fat reducing, tissue and cartilage repair or whatever, AOD must be doing something.

As far as I understand it, PEDs can very much be considered things that help you recover more quickly rather than just being stimulants. For example, steroids help you repair muscle tissue after it's been damaged..

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yes, what?

According to ASADA they are investigating the results of Danks trials.

Considering ASADA is an investigative organisation, this would be to logically gauge the extent of the EFC's wrong doing.

 

[sherb]

And agin

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...guinea-pigs-20130629-2p3x2.html#ixzz2XeKNg1y6

Thankfully even though Danks experiments were uncontrolled by anyone at the club theyve had positive news from field experts.

So you don't question the motives of those outside of BigFooty who are expressing concerns over the players' health? It's only the people here that you apply that assessment to?

Gotcha.

 

[nineteen eighty]

They can't get off AT ALL based on what was written in the ACC report because the report was written AFTER they had pumped drugs into their players. It is only now they are trying to use that ambiguity as an excuse.

Agreed!!!

 

[AFLQLD]

So the Bombers "fighting chance" seems to come down to a letter from the rogue sports scientist which proves that Reid knew that ASADA allowed the use of AOD.

This same rogue sports scientist then made his own decisions about the program and didn't give Reid, or anyone at the club a copy of the letter.

The club sacked the sports scientist, didn't get the letter and he now won't give them a copy which would clear their players.

Months ago, when Essendon were still on speaking terms with Dank, wouldn't Reid have just said, "Hey Steve, ASADA have come calling about our program. Sling us a copy of your letter, would you. It will cover us if they ask why we are using AOD."

And the players and their families must be distraught at going through all this. Wouldn't Reid be the first one out the door months ago for failing the players in his care so obviously?

 

[mxett]

You don't try to get people to invest in products that don't work..

Whether it was fat reducing, tissue and cartilage repair or whatever, AOD must be doing something.

As far as I understand it, PEDs can very much be considered things that help you recover more quickly rather than just being stimulants. For example, steroids help you repair muscle tissue after it's been damaged..

True, steroids are used to aid recovery but also increase performance beyond base levels. There's been no data suggesting AOD can do this and according to an expert in this area its highly unlikely

 

[mxett]

Where does it say it was passed for use?

By Doc Reid, not asada