We need a second key defender...

[mattys123]

We need a second key defender if we are to be a realistic contender for the premiership in the next 2 years.

We have Simon Prestigiacomo, who barring injury, can be relied upon for at least the rest of this season, and most likely next season also, but after that we struggle for a second key position back.

Our premiership contenders all have 2 key forwards (except the dogs);

Brisbane; Brendan Fevola, Jonathon Brown
StKilda; Nick Riewoldt, Justin Koshitzchke
Geelong; Cameron Mooney, Tom Hawkins
Hawthorn; Jarrod Roughead, Lance Franklin.

Now, the contenders to be that 2nd "tall key defender" (in no particular order);

Already in our 22 (most weeks when fit);

* Leigh Brown; 194cms, Seems better as a forward these days, but can play back on "monsters" like Minson, Kosi or even J.Brown, although does struggle against the "best of the best".
* Tyson Goldsack; 193cms, Bigger then most would expect, but he does lack the physicality needed to be a reliable key defender. More likely to be used as an attacking HB.
* Nick Maxwell; 193cms; Seems to struggle against the tall forwards, and seems to prefer the 3rd man in option while playing on a "lesser" quality forward. Not really the answer IMO.
* Travis Cloke; 196cms; Yep, it's been mentioned before, but I believe he may still make it as a CHB, or should at least be tried there against a lesser team at some stage. Could play Anthony, Dawes, Rusling/L.Brown all up forward, with the rotating ruckman also coming in. His goalkicking makes most things he does as a forward irrelevant, so it wouldn't be the worst idea.

Now the possible "future" players;

* Nathan Brown; 195cms; The best future prospect as a defensive KPP, he has seemed to struggle of late, although his VFL performance against the strongest side in that comp was "OK".
* Ben Reid; 195cms; Just don't know what to say about Ben, is he a forward, a defender or is ever going to be good enough, so many questions, so few answers so far. Lacks the physicality to go with the big forwards at the moment.
* Sean Rusling; 190cms; Most "don't get" why he is playing down back in the VFL, but this thread is basically covers the reason. MM and the coaching staff know we need a strong, agile, quick defender to cover the likes of Riewoldt and Franklin, and Rus is being tried out there. I still see him as a better forward option like most.

I have stated several times that one of the bottom 3 "young players" there should be in the side every week, more so for their own personal development, as much as helping the team achieve the ultimate goal.

Simply put, I believe we need a second defensive KPP to help Presti out in his formative years, and we will also need another to replace him eventually.

Thoughts, preferences?

 

[ralu]

I think at the moment we just take leigh brown into each game as a utility. Nate Brown and Reid cant get the job done at the moment and LBrown can at least match them for strength.

Go with Presti on Franklin this week with Brown/Obrien on Roughead. Although I really dont like the thought of toovey on cyril!!!

I must admit that I have major queries on our KPPs for the future. Cloke, Dawes, Anthony, Reid, Brown worry me.

Is Anthony our Key back answer??

 

[hellfire]

Totally agree.

Also:

Scarlett + Taylor.
Dawson + Fisher.
Lake + Morris.

Dawson isn't that good obviously, but you get the idea. We definitely need one of Reid or Nate to really take the next step. Goldsack would be ideal if he could add some muscle to compete with the big bodies. He has the pace, the height, the aggression and courage... he just lacks the body size. I still have hope for Brown and Reid though.

 

[Invigoration]

Since when is Goldsack in our best 22?

He was fit for virtually the whole year is '09 and he struggled for a spot.

But yeah, I'm a little bit concerned about how we'll handle Browny and Fev when the time comes, the other teams not so much.

 

[Wooljay]

Agreed that in the next two years we'll need a second Presti, but realistically our defense is one of the best in the comp hands down. What concerns me is the complete lack of consistency in the forward line.

That aside, I would be thrilled to see Trav having some time down back. Despite his complete uselessness in front of goal, I do love T.Cloke on basis of workrate and heart. Tarrant transformed, don't see why we can't mould Cloke slightly in order to keep him on the list (lets face it, we can't afford a CHF with a < 40% accuracy).

For me, Nathan Brown and Goldsack are the future options. I only say Brown because Rusling is a glass cannon, and Reid I just have no confidence in at the moment. However I'm more than happy to change that view.

Also, Invig - doesn't Goldy have meningitis or some shit? That'll knock you on your ass for a good while.

 

[pongo_3931]

Something about the way Reid plays makes me think he is more likely to fit the mold of shut down defender than the others.

With that said big Nate Brown has proven he has what it takes. I think they should both be rotated through the seniors this year to have a chance to play alongside Presti and learn from the man himself. He's simply exceptional and we melt down without him.

 

[pongo_3931]

Since when is Goldsack in our best 22?

He was fit for virtually the whole year is '09 and he struggled for a spot.

But yeah, I'm a little bit concerned about how we'll handle Browny and Fev when the time comes.

I can't wait to see the defensive structure we play here.

Presti pantsed Fev the last few encounters, so I would put him on Fev. And Brown has shown he can contain brown, so I'd bring Nate in here and give him a shot at redemption.

Only issue I see is that Fev can play up ground some with J Brown up forward. I would hope Presti would let him go beyond about 55m and stop, not getting dragged up too much.

I love talking about our defence much more than our forward options clearly

 

[hellfire]

But yeah, I'm a little bit concerned about how we'll handle Browny and Fev when the time comes, the other teams not so much.

I think Nate Brown on Jonathon, Presti on Fevola. But we'll play a very defensive game against them; Maxy, Harry and Heath will be going third man up a lot.

 

[Invigoration]

Game would be over at quarter time if we put our Brown on their Brown just going on current form.

 

[pongo_3931]

I think Nate Brown on Jonathon, Presti on Fevola. But we'll play a very defensive game against them; Maxy, Harry and Heath will be going third man up a lot.

Hellfire you're a genius.

Game would be over at quarter time if we put our Brown on their Brown just going on current form.

Certainly a lot of broken eggs in this omelet I agree, yet he's the only other player apart from Presti I know who has shut him down. I'd take the punt and go out in a blaze of glory.

 

[hellfire]

Hellfire you're a genius.



Certainly a lot of broken eggs in this omelet I agree, yet he's the only other player apart from Presti I know who has shut him down. I'd take the punt and go out in a blaze of glory.

My thoughts exactly, we don't have anybody else to do the job on Browny. With our defense these days, Nate wouldn't be going against him alone, we work as a very cohesive defensive unit. I think we'll beat the Lions easily.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

We need a key forward more that can kick than a key defender.

Leigh Brown played well in the limited games he had in defense last season. I think it is his best position but at the moment he has to play forward because all our key forwards are out of form.

Nathan Brown in his first season shown he can play at AFL level. He will be fine if given an extended opportunity in the ones when Presti retires. Just lacks a bit of confidence at the moment

Ben Reid had a fine season in the VFL in defense and is now just getting his feet wet in the AFL. He needs more time.

As for key forwards

Travis Cloke - Can't kick, will always be an issue.

John Anthony - Confidence way down and I don't think he is being used right by MM. He is a lead from the square full forward but lately he has been starting at 30/40 metres out and has been leading to the flanks.

Sean Rusling - Body can't hold up plus it appears coaching staff may of given up on him developing as a full forward. I can't understand why they are persisting with him playing in defense when he has no clue.

Chris Dawes - Isn't getting a look in the ones because he doesn't do enough at VFL level. He should be kicking bags of 4-6 goals every week to push for selection.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

seeing Matt Maguire running around playing excellent football and being picked up with the last pick in the draft makes me think how he could have been a massive help

 

[Cynic]

seeing Matt Maguire running around playing excellent football and being picked up with the last pick in the draft makes me think how he could have been a massive help

Not the only one it burns

On subject we'd be happy with one Presti so why do you need two?

 

[TradeDraft]

I say it's between Reid and Nathan Brown, Though leroy can be a Better Defender then Forward

 

[didaka]

I think you have to play Reid into some senior experience. I don't think we can afford to have 2 plain and simple shut down defenders.

If Reid grows confidence, he can shut down and attack. It's all about getting games into him to be honest.

 

[hellfire]

Not the only one it burns

On subject we'd be happy with one Presti so why do you need two?

We'd be happy with one flag since 1990... why are you going for a third?

 

[hazz33]

Buddy got a week for that bump on aker lucky you guys but 2 get a week for that is shit
u guys dont need 2 this week

 

[mattys123]

Buddy got a week for that bump on aker lucky you guys but 2 get a week for that is shit
u guys dont need 2 this week

While I'm glad Buddy got rubbed out for that hit, I don't think he should have, in fact I would have given him a medal for hitting Aker at anytime, anywhere.

 

[Zahki]

Geez, what happened. People were talking about ripping up their memberships if Reid or N Brown got traded last year, they were both being talked up as 10 year key poisiton prospects, now no-one has any faith in them?

If push comes to shove I'm with the people who want to stick Cloke at CHB. If he can't improve his accuracy he shouldn't be a forward, period.

 

[pieman123]

I think at the moment we just take leigh brown into each game as a utility. Nate Brown and Reid cant get the job done at the moment and LBrown can at least match them for strength.

Leigh Brown is a useless player, he offers nothing in the forwards,backs or ruck and id say Nathan Brown is just as, if not stronger than Leigh Brown already

 

[Ickirus]

The only players L.Brown can play on in defense is resting ruckmen like Minson, Krezuer, etc who don't have leg speed. Got destroyed by J.Brown last season, and was trailing 5-10 metres behind him on almost every lead. L.Brown moves like a glacier, and even Kozi who is slow was burning him off when he played on him in the finals last season, and was saved by his inaccurate kicking.

It's between N.Brown and Reid.

N.Brown needs to improve his positioning, starting 2-3 metres off your oponent is suicide, especially on the top forwards in the comp. Needs to start in front or at least have body contact.

Reid has the attributes to go with the likes of Franklin, and Roo. Needs game experience on these guys, while defensively he is alrite currently it can be improved no doubt, hopefully working with Hudgeton gives him a couple of tricks. His kicking can be hit and miss, but when its on, its dam good.

I'd go with Reid, as he offers more than N.Brown at this stage, hopefully both come on in the future.

 

[mdc]

Totally agree.

Also:

Scarlett + Taylor.
Dawson + Fisher.
Lake + Morris.

Meh. Scarlett and Taylor is fair enough, but Fisher and Morris aren't KPB and Dawson is rubbish.

We just have to back Harry and/or Maxwell to do the job on the second-choice KPF, and I reckon they will. Sure, if you look at the potential match-ups against Brisbane or Hawks it's not pretty, but that's true of almost any team in the AFL.

As long as Presti is in the team, there's no room for another low-possie KPB, which right now rules out Brown and Goldsack. Reid is basically the only outside option, but right now he's still a year or two off having the requisite strength. Not to mention I still believe he might be our best forward prospect (alongside Anthony).

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Leigh Brown I'd probably give him 1 more game and if his performance still remains as poor as it has been the past 2 weeks then I would be looking to drop him for N.Brown.

N.Brown is the obvious replacement with Reid not far off either although I still believe he projects more so as a sweeper down back which is why I would favour N.Brown. Whilst Reid is very much built up now with the right physical dimensions and athletic attributes he doesn't like body contact which is central to playing a KP. On the flipside he is very good as a sweeper with his excellent kick and ability to read the play which many players who have played as forwards as juniors possess when shifted back into defence.

 

[doppleganger]

Trav Cloke could be a great CHB. No shame in switching between CHF and CHB and I think he would be our best fit.

He is fit enough to run all day, strong enough he would make a great CHB.

That leaves a hole up forward tho......N.Brown should be given a crack up forward......he could be a good big target.

Cloke is our best answer at CHB I think.