We were quick - but why?

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Re: We were quick-but why?

This is an easy one to answer:

The bombers looked quick - look where it got them!
Fact is, when we come to crunch time we need more physically aggressive skilled under pressure players. Sure speed is important - but if you look at the 2009 GF it was not speed that won that game (but i should note both Byrnes and Varcoes impacts in the last quarter).

The only question we need to raise is to ensure we don't play anyone that is injured - refer 2008. If Corey or Ling are not at 100% then they don't play.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Might be sacrilige, but I'd be happy to leave Ling, Lonergan and Corey out, if not for finals then definitely for this week, Carlton having chopped us up with speed and small forwards the last 2 times we played them.

Agree...not for finals, but for this week, yes. If we lose it will be because we don't have enough run and can't cover their dangerous smalls.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: We were quick-but why?

This is an easy one to answer:

The only question we need to raise is to ensure we don't play anyone that is injured - refer 2008. If Corey or Ling are not at 100% then they don't play.

I really hope they follow you on this point. I am still recovering from 2008 - watching Hodge do things he should not have been able to do - if an injured player was not on him. Surely we have learned from that !!!!! Please be so.

Unless it is only a minor niggle not worth the chance of playing anyone injured and we do have enough players to cover a player here or there.

If Rooke plays and we lose I do not know what I will do ? Probably 20 years !

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

Does anyone else think selwood's pace is massively underrated? Last month or so he has genuinly looked to be breaking lines and finding heaps of space. Obviously not Wojac tier, but definately not the one paced inside mid some may pigeon hole him as.

 

[Vdubs]

Might be sacrilige, but I'd be happy to leave Ling, Lonergan and Corey out, if not for finals then definitely for this week, Carlton having chopped us up with speed and small forwards the last 2 times we played them.

Totally agree here

 

[donbooger]

we looked slow against collingwood because they were far more determined and this was reversed against the dogs. Would be far happier seeing ling then hunt heading into a final against massive pressure from the saints or pies, don't read to much into the last two games finals won't be like that

 

[The Casey Cat]

Might be sacrilige, but I'd be happy to leave Ling, Lonergan and Corey out, if not for finals then definitely for this week, Carlton having chopped us up with speed and small forwards the last 2 times we played them.

I'm with you as well. Maybe Ling to come in for Menzel but that's it out of those 3. No Corey until he is completely right. He is slow enough as it is he can't be playing sore. Same goes for Ling if he is not fit he does not play. As others have said he has been great but when we have both Corey and Ling plus a 3rd tall in defense (which we don't need) we start to look to slow/one paced.

Does anyone else think selwood's pace is massively underrated? Last month or so he has genuinly looked to be breaking lines and finding heaps of space. Obviously not Wojac tier, but definately not the one paced inside mid some may pigeon hole him as.

I have always thought this. He is not blindingly quick but is quicker than average when he has space to really charge. I first realised this in our game at Perth against Freo in 08.

 

[David the Cat]

Lets settle a bit here....there is no way Menzel will play in front of Joel Corey or the club captain!! Nor should he. The kid has a great future but wont play finals footy this year.

I like T Hunt, and with Varcoe in the middle for longer periods Wojo on the ground, combined with Byrnes and Ablett ( speed underrated ) , further combined with the foot and hand skills of the rest is more than adequate enough to have a real shot at the flag.

If Carlton try to simply run off us on Friday they will get flogged.

 

[OldStyle2007]

Lets settle a bit here....there is no way Menzel will play in front of Joel Corey or the club captain!! Nor should he. The kid has a great future but wont play finals footy this year.

I like T Hunt, and with Varcoe in the middle for longer periods Wojo on the ground, combined with Byrnes and Ablett ( speed underrated ) , further combined with the foot and hand skills of the rest is more than adequate enough to have a real shot at the flag.

If Carlton try to simply run off us on Friday they will get flogged.

I think if we drop all the young kids for the older guys we won't beat Collingwood. I think a tough call has to be made on at least 1, maybe 2 spots in the 22

We had enough class on the field with the line up against the Bulldogs the other night with Ablett and Selwood, Chapman, Kelly etc... What we need around that class is some really hard and quick running, some solid role playing and tackling

 

[Copernicus]

We were quicker for two reasons - the Bulldogs intensity really fell off and let us run rings around them, and I think the inclusions of Woj and Taylor Hunt were important. Both of those guys play in a similar way - hard at it, quick with the ball, and long kicks. In fact we seemed to do lot of long kicks in this game. We really look quick when we have the time and space to kick long to players running free. I don't know that we will have the same luxury in finals, but it is definitely something to keep up our sleeves if and when the game opens up.

 

[catters078]

I disagree with the leaving corey out part...

JC needs as much game time as possible, he will be crucial to our midfield depth in the finals, a classy corey outweighs any other option we use after the first wave of ablett, selwood and bartel needs rests on the bench..

I think coreys at a point where he basiaclly has to play now and get whatever improvment he can get now out...like otto last year

Fridays a dead rubber, im hoping corey comes up and there is some improvement (even just a little) in that knee..

 

[Partridge]

Re: We were quick-but why?

using alot of vacroe and wojcinski through the middle third of the ground is where we improved our leg speed..

its kind of funny, over the last two grand finals varcoe, byrnes, wojcinki and stokes were the players who were the borderline players who missed out on finals, this year they may be the key to winning it for us

They were anyway. There is also an important distinction between them. Byrnes and Wocjinski are 100% - 2 Grand Finals for 2 wins. Varcoe was horrendous in 2008 but partly atoned last year, while Stokes was even worse in 2008 and was thankfully absent last year.

Still not sure if everyone's fit you could squeeze the 3 small forwards in, but you would think Wocjinski is safe now.

Back to topic, it wasn't a coincidence that with Lonergan out (probably the big defender we don't need as we've already got Scarlett and Taylor), and Taylor Hunt, Wojo and even Laidler in we looked much, much faster running the ball out of defence.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: We were quick-but why?

They were anyway. There is also an important distinction between them. Byrnes and Wocjinski are 100% - 2 Grand Finals for 2 wins. Varcoe was horrendous in 2008 but partly atoned last year, while Stokes was even worse in 2008 and was thankfully absent last year.

Still not sure if everyone's fit you could squeeze the 3 small forwards in, but you would think Wocjinski is safe now.

Back to topic, it wasn't a coincidence that with Lonergan out (probably the big defender we don't need as we've already got Scarlett and Taylor), and Taylor Hunt, Wojo and even Laidler in we looked much, much faster running the ball out of defence.

I agree. To me it's not even that Stokes or Byrnes have been poor, they have both been decent. It's just that I think the extra pace, particularly considering our issues with Corey Ling etc is needed more through the midfield than it is through the forward line, and Wojo is much more capable of playing in the centre square and the wing than the other three are, so for me he can't be the one to miss out, and it's still got to be one of Stokes, Byrnes or Lonergan.

Interesting to see all the discussion on leaving JC out. While he has had trouble playing consecutive games and it's a worry, when he has played he's actually been serviceable, yes lacks a bit of speed but has been laying heaps of tackles and doing grunt work. I'm actually more worried about Ling, in terms of he's the one that looks more injured and crippled, but maybe my eyes deceive me.

 

[BONG RIPS MKII]

Does anyone else think selwood's pace is massively underrated? Last month or so he has genuinly looked to be breaking lines and finding heaps of space. Obviously not Wojac tier, but definately not the one paced inside mid some may pigeon hole him as.

agree 100%

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Re: We were quick-but why?

A number of reasons:

First use of the ball. Ottens and Hawkins gave our mids an armchair ride. Otto had 19 and Hawkins 14 in the ruck but it was the hitouts to advantage that started it all. Otto was at 30% and Hawkins at a massive 57%. Yes they weren't against the greatest but gee they got us going.

Defensive pressure. Just getting a hand on the opposition as the dispose of the ball can effect the kick / handball and open the game up with a turnover. The desperation, despite the margin, was fantastic on Saturday and will continue.

Movement. Against the Pies we handballed often to stationary targets when a quick kick may've been a better option. Putting teammates under pressure isn't a great way of moving the ball. Forever playing on just kept the ball in motion and the dogs (renowned for their leg speed) couldn't keep up. Ditto the Bombers a month or so ago.

Possession. You always look faster with the ball than without it.

On the highlighted sentence, did anyone else notice in the game against the Pies how often when one of their players was being tackled that they would get a scrubbly little kick forward whilst still being tackled and almost everytime it paid off for them?

Reminded me a bit of the freak from Hawthorn, James Morrissey. It seemed everytime they played the Cats he would hack the ball off the ground out of packs and it would hit a team mate lace out 40m away

I've been a pretty big critic of Wojcinski over the journey but I think he's been super this year and his pace has been very important. The criticism I used to have of him was that if he wasn't getting much of it he seemed to think he needed to have some sort of impact to justify his spot so he was forever running into packs and giving away stupid free kicks. It was especially noticeable in the '07 flag.