Bumped Welcome to Collingwood, Darcy Moore (new posts start at #761)

[Hagla]

We paid what he was worth. Therefore system worked. If you wanted him for a second round pick you must want a new system so we can rip off other teams?

Na I'm happy with what we paid but nothing is perfect and discussion is healthy. Just throwing out some ideas. I don't think we would have gotten him for a second round pick if the dogs passed on him anyway.

 

[TradeDraft]

I'm still pissed off the dogs bid on him with their first round pick regardless

Well we still had a Pick above them anyway

 

[Ricky90]

Just out of interest what would a guy like cloke press? 150?

Should be around about that. But those boys train for functional strength more so than something to brag about. So you never know, he might be more in the 120kg range.

I'm 5'11, don't train much anymore but at my peak I was weighing in at 85kg and could bench 130kg. Not bad for my size but the strength wasn't very functional.

Would also be interesting to note whether Darcy was talking about a 1 rep max or sets of 95kg. Because if it's 1RM, then 60kg to begin with is super, super light. That's like, never lifted a weight before in my life type stuff. So with that said, I'm glad he's quickly stacked the strength on.

 

[Dynamics]

Wow that's genuinely shocking... 60kg? That's a pretty miniscule bench. Glad he's already nudging 100 thanks to the preseason. You'd think that with his background and the facilities available to him prior to draft day that he'd finish school with a better bench than 60kg.

 

[TradeDraft]

Another Great Article and Got to love how he is a Big Fan of Bucks

He did not need Media Traininig

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-02-23/pies-injury-hurdle

 

[EGsolomon]

Was reading how Darcey is being groomed in the back line. not sure I agree with that. I understand versatility is important but with Reid, Brown, Keefe, and Frost back there as key bigs and at 200cm and his maturity I would be putting up forward day one.

Thoughts?

 

[ClaytonM]

Was reading how Darcey is being groomed in the back line. not sure I agree with that. I understand versatility is important but with Reid, Brown, Keefe, and Frost back there as key bigs and at 200cm and his maturity I would be putting up forward day one.

Thoughts?

I think it is for his early development. It is easier to get in to a game as a defender. Which will be good for his development.

I don't think or want Moore having a major role in the firsts this year so I am not fussed, but if he does come on quickly as a defender it may release Reid to go forward.

 

[ppoiter]

Eh, Im happy with pick 9 going for Moore. Im also more happy with the shear amount of laughs that I got out of that the Bulldogs traded their best player (by a long way) and gave up a top 10 pick for a kid who hasn't kicked 10 goals, gave him a million a year, as well as paying Griffens salary at a rival at the bottom of the ladder in the process. Yet some of the supporters don't think it's a bad trade. For mine, it is arguably the worst trade in history.

Hard to call a trade before either player has played a game but you're right, on paper that looks like an awful, awful deal. Tom Boyd will have to be freakishly good for that to work out in the Doggies favour

 

[Wooljay]

Was reading how Darcey is being groomed in the back line. not sure I agree with that. I understand versatility is important but with Reid, Brown, Keefe, and Frost back there as key bigs and at 200cm and his maturity I would be putting up forward day one.

Thoughts?

Know thy enemy.

Having learned his trade in the backline it will make him a smarter forward.

Also good to expose him to as much as possible in his first year.

 

[TradeDraft]

Was reading how Darcey is being groomed in the back line. not sure I agree with that. I understand versatility is important but with Reid, Brown, Keefe, and Frost back there as key bigs and at 200cm and his maturity I would be putting up forward day one.

Thoughts?

Moore has way more upside as a Forward and he could be a Game Changer up forward

 

[Copeland]

Moore will be the second forward by week 5 I think. Our forwards I think will Cloak Grundy Moore Elliot Fasolo and Broomhead.

Is he on the park yet?

 

[Apex36]

Was reading how Darcey is being groomed in the back line. not sure I agree with that. I understand versatility is important but with Reid, Brown, Keefe, and Frost back there as key bigs and at 200cm and his maturity I would be putting up forward day one.

Thoughts?

Listening to the interview he did on SEN last night, he was very coy about where he was going to be played. He said he trained before Xmas in defence, but not much more. Gave the impression that the end game for him is to play forward, but I might just be hearing what I want to hear...

 

[EGsolomon]

I think it is for his early development. It is easier to get in to a game as a defender. Which will be good for his development.

I don't think or want Moore having a major role in the firsts this year so I am not fussed, but if he does come on quickly as a defender it may release Reid to go forward.

I don't think Reid going back or forward would depend on Moore as they are trying to put Keefe Forward to allow Reid to go back. I think it's more that Reid is best in defense and Buck's knows he needs another tall in the forward line, which is why I think Moore makes his debut early.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Wow that's genuinely shocking... 60kg? That's a pretty miniscule bench. Glad he's already nudging 100 thanks to the preseason. You'd think that with his background and the facilities available to him prior to draft day that he'd finish school with a better bench than 60kg.

It's to do with his height (and arm length)- We're all talking about Travis Cloke and assuming he has the best bench at the club, but I remember hearing one of our guys on the radio that he's just middle of the pack. It's actually Dane Swan who has the best bench at the club (or at least used to).

Guys with long arms struggle with the angle of the bench press as their elbows start out further behind their bodies and make it harder for them to lift bigger weights. Especially if they're a young skinny kid, it's going to be really difficult for them.

At the NBA draft combine, they do a test of how many times they can bench-press 185lbs (84kgs), and while most of the 6'0" point guards can manage to do it, the gangly 6'10" Kevin Durant couldn't even do it once at his combine, but this wasn't because he totally lacked strength as much as it had to do with how long his arms were. In fact, there have been no 7-foot players in the Top 40 results of all time in the NBA combine bench press, because the leverage just works naturally against them at that height.

 

[Scodog10]

It's to do with his height (and arm length)- We're all talking about Travis Cloke and assuming he has the best bench at the club, but I remember hearing one of our guys on the radio that he's just middle of the pack. It's actually Dane Swan who has the best bench at the club (or at least used to).

Guys with long arms struggle with the angle of the bench press as their elbows start out further behind their bodies and make it harder for them to lift bigger weights. Especially if they're a young skinny kid, it's going to be really difficult for them.

At the NBA draft combine, they do a test of how many times they can bench-press 185lbs (84kgs), and while most of the 6'0" point guards can manage to do it, the gangly 6'10" Kevin Durant couldn't even do it once at his combine, but this wasn't because he totally lacked strength as much as it had to do with how long his arms were. In fact, there have been no 7-foot players in the Top 40 results of all time in the NBA combine bench press, because the leverage just works naturally against them at that height.

I'm not as sure blanket results are relevant here. The NFL combine was held just last week with defensive linesman, who would share wingspans with Moore, dominating the bench test 220lbs (100kg) in this instance.

I'm on the fence because I don't know Moore's prior lifting experience and would rather digress to an expert (I know someone on our board is just not sure who), but I would be more likely to lean towards Moore not lifting regularly before arriving at the club than his mechanics being the major limiter.

 

[Ricky90]

When you're taller, you have a longer range of motion. In physics, work is defined by force x distance. So you'd imagine someone with shorter arms you have less 'work' to do. In effect, it's easy for a shorter person.

However, the potential for strength is greater in a taller person. Their muscles are longer, meaning more muscle cells, meaning more room for growth.

 

[Apex36]

I'm not as sure blanket results are relevant here. The NFL combine was held just last week with defensive linesman, who would share wingspans with Moore, dominating the bench test 220lbs (100kg) in this instance.

I'm on the fence because I don't know Moore's prior lifting experience and would rather digress to an expert (I know someone on our board is just not sure who), but I would be more likely to lean towards Moore not lifting regularly before arriving at the club than his mechanics being the major limiter.

NFL draftees have usually gone through the college system haven't they? So they should be older and stronger in theory. 100kgs doesn't seem all that impressive if Moore is doing 90kgs after only 1 preseason...

 

[Scodog10]

NFL draftees have usually gone through the college system haven't they? So they should be older and stronger in theory. 100kgs doesn't seem all that impressive if Moore is doing 90kgs after only 1 preseason...

We're talking about 30-35 reps, no rest, with the NFL boys who do spend 2-4 years at college.

To the best of my knowledge that's also the case with the majority of NBA draftees hence why I'm less inclined to use combine results from the US.

I guess I'm just more inclined to lean towards time in the gym being the major limiter of that type of result as opposed to mechanics. Especially considering the spike in results that Moore has seen. It's an interesting discussion and one that has no real absolutes to it unless you're familiar with all the data the club have because for all I know it could be nutrition based.

 

[Dynamics]

It's to do with his height (and arm length)- We're all talking about Travis Cloke and assuming he has the best bench at the club, but I remember hearing one of our guys on the radio that he's just middle of the pack. It's actually Dane Swan who has the best bench at the club (or at least used to).

Guys with long arms struggle with the angle of the bench press as their elbows start out further behind their bodies and make it harder for them to lift bigger weights. Especially if they're a young skinny kid, it's going to be really difficult for them.

At the NBA draft combine, they do a test of how many times they can bench-press 185lbs (84kgs), and while most of the 6'0" point guards can manage to do it, the gangly 6'10" Kevin Durant couldn't even do it once at his combine, but this wasn't because he totally lacked strength as much as it had to do with how long his arms were. In fact, there have been no 7-foot players in the Top 40 results of all time in the NBA combine bench press, because the leverage just works naturally against them at that height.

I appreciate all that. I'm 195cm with a 200cm reach and I weighed 80kg at 18yo. At 18 I could bench 50 to 60kg and didn't play any competitive footy or do anything more than muck around in the gym when my mates went. I looked like a stick insect and I'm most definitely not "strong".

Darcy can now bench 95kg after one preseason. Therefore he wasn't stuck on 60kg because of leverage. He was stuck on 60 because of either laziness or crap training.

 

[Kilmo]

Maybe it's just because the bench press is more important for beach muscles than it is for playing football...

 

[TradeDraft]

It shows when you are in a Full Time AFL Environment how quickly they can improve

 

[Scodog10]

Maybe it's just because the bench press is more important for beach muscles than it is for playing football...

I'd disagree personally. Core, legs and chest are vital for KPP's, IMO.

Cloke's ability to push off of an opponent at the last moment to dive and mark doesn't come with an undeveloped chest. We're talking funcional strength after all and being able to bench only 60kg isn't functional for an AFL level KPP.

 

[bucksisbest]

I'd disagree personally. Core, legs and chest are vital for KPP's, IMO.

Cloke's ability to push off of an opponent at the last moment to dive and mark doesn't come with an undeveloped chest. We're talking funcional strength after all and being able to bench only 60kg isn't functional for an AFL level KPP.

Mostly agree, however gym strong can be different to football/functional strong, the gym is also about techniques in moving the object you are pushing/pulling/ carrying, while guile and familiarity with using your own body on a football field comes more naturally. I'm sure there are many AFL footballers who out lift there opponent on bench press, squat and deadlift, but still get moved around on the field.

He can't have been really physically weak if he was able to play as a KPD against forwards his age and not get dominated and also be able to physically stand up to VFL football. It appears he is just developing and learning about more serious gym training.
I've heard consistent stories that when Lance Franklin first came to the Hawks he apparently had trouble completing basic strength gym work.

 

[Dynamics]

That's what I find curious... He was obviously strong enough to complete very well. My guess is he just didn't dedicate much time to the gym... And now we will.

Upside of this is that the scope for strength and size gain is significant for Darce.

 

[Frankie23]

There is no way he spent a year out of school and came to the club only being able to bench press 60kg.

and there is no way he is now benching 100kg 2 months later..