Player Watch Welcome to Hawthorn, James Worpel, pick #43 2017 - Peter Crimmins medalist 2019

[BrunoV]

Mitchell’s presence wasn’t the problem. We did ask him to be more accountable but basically he just became easy to push off the ball. He stopped being able to keep his feet and he is extremely fumbly. Just doesn’t seem to have the power and balance in the contest he used to, which is odd because he is still young and no real history of injury outside a recent shoulder.

I'm not here to tell you about players you know better than me but there isn't much there that you wouldn't put down to some injury niggles and confidence.

Defensive roles on ball are not simple. These guys are largely recruited because the are ball winners. Finding the timing between playing the ball on its merits and stopping an opponent seems to me to be a very difficult balance to strike. You're playing 2 ways in the midfield whereas defending in defence is very much one way with the ball coming at the defender (even of it goes over the back defender and forward are still reacting in the same way).

Get that timing wrong and all of the sudden you're off balance, or have your momentum going the wrong way and you're being brushed off.

It seems to me that the zone papers over the cracks of not having defensive specialists in the middle for a lot of teams.

I think many coaches delude themselves into thinking that the zones work or work well enough to load a midfield with players who are fundamentally attacking.

I know at Essendon, not that we're an example of anything other than incompetence, we haven't had a defensive midfielder since Hocking (who was last AFL standard in 2014 or maybe 2015). It appears this trend has finally broken with the intended use of Setterfield.

Commentary about the game tends to fail analysis, too. The focus on possessions has not been helped by supercoach, etc.

The Hawks 3 peat midfield was average at ball winning as was Richmond but they had defensively disciplined players in the middle. Melbourne came good because it supported dominant Oliver and Petracca with a largely defensive group of players. Coming at it from the other side powerhouse midfield groups such as GWS or the Dogs can't seem to get past a prelim without a favourable match-up and then wilt in a GF.

This is the context in which you have to try to understand what is happening with a guy like Worpel. He may not be capable of evolving his game and is probably not good enough to bal hunt. I don't accept for a second that, short of issues with psychology or professionalism that go to much more seriously problems, that players just lose ability. The attention of run-with players, etc is not something which many players are required to deal with, certainly not Worpel.

It gets back to the confluence of circumstances. Who do you want ball in hand to kick out of stoppages, etc, Ward/Day/McKenzie or Worpel? Teams set up to get the ball into the hands of the players they want to have it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

He has had an extended period of poor form over multiple seasons with a downward trajectory, I think people are well within their rights to think Worpel will struggle to recapture his form from 4 years ago

Then they’re being overly simplistic. Basically.

Every year is different for players, whether it’s due to the preseason they have had, their home life, their role in the team, other players roles in the team, their confidence, their body…. Worpel had poor form in 2022, then busted his shoulder and missed half the year. Half his preseason has been non-contact and he started hitting match sim just before Christmas(from memory).

He’s now been given 1 match simulation against opposition in February to recapture his form?

Throwing out a “well he wasn’t great last year or the year before, so I’m just going to say he can’t ever be good again” is quite ignorant of the work that both players and coaches continually do to get players right for the season and find their mojo.

What’s wrong with giving him 2, 3 or 4 games to see if he can find some form, rather then writing him off after a single game in Feb?

 

[MrPremiership]

I'd imagine the coaches will give him a decent run in the seniors to find his form. Maybe 10 weeks.

If he's still struggling after that, then its problems.

 

[Brishawk]

I'm not here to tell you about players you know better than me but there isn't much there that you wouldn't put down to some injury niggles and confidence.

Defensive roles on ball are not simple. These guys are largely recruited because the are ball winners. Finding the timing between playing the ball on its merits and stopping an opponent seems to me to be a very difficult balance to strike. You're playing 2 ways in the midfield whereas defending in defence is very much one way with the ball coming at the defender (even of it goes over the back defender and forward are still reacting in the same way).

Get that timing wrong and all of the sudden you're off balance, or have your momentum going the wrong way and you're being brushed off.

It seems to me that the zone papers over the cracks of not having defensive specialists in the middle for a lot of teams.

I think many coaches delude themselves into thinking that the zones work or work well enough to load a midfield with players who are fundamentally attacking.

I know at Essendon, not that we're an example of anything other than incompetence, we haven't had a defensive midfielder since Hocking (who was last AFL standard in 2014 or maybe 2015). It appears this trend has finally broken with the intended use of Setterfield.

Commentary about the game tends to fail analysis, too. The focus on possessions has not been helped by supercoach, etc.

The Hawks 3 peat midfield was average at ball winning as was Richmond but they had defensively disciplined players in the middle. Melbourne came good because it supported dominant Oliver and Petracca with a largely defensive group of players. Coming at it from the other side powerhouse midfield groups such as GWS or the Dogs can't seem to get past a prelim without a favourable match-up and then wilt in a GF.

This is the context in which you have to try to understand what is happening with a guy like Worpel. He may not be capable of evolving his game and is probably not good enough to bal hunt. I don't accept for a second that, short of issues with psychology or professionalism that go to much more seriously problems, that players just lose ability. The attention of run-with players, etc is not something which many players are required to deal with, certainly not Worpel.

It gets back to the confluence of circumstances. Who do you want ball in hand to kick out of stoppages, etc, Ward/Day/McKenzie or Worpel? Teams set up to get the ball into the hands of the players they want to have it.

Appreciate your post but I’m talking about fundamental football skills deserting him. Last year we pushed omear and Mitchell out of the middle to give him and Newcombe more opportunity. Newcombe thrive but Worpel struggled and got moved to a hff where he couldn’t win a contest or run. Some of his issue was flagged as a loss of running capacity and they put him on a program to improve that this offseason. Let’s see if he can get some confidence from that. I think Mitch will give him a chance to be a starting mid unless his form is simply too poor to allow it.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I'd imagine the coaches will give him a decent run in the seniors to find his form. Maybe 10 weeks.

If he's still struggling after that, then its problems.

I doubt it will be 10 weeks but yes, they will give him a run.

 

[MrPremiership]

I doubt it will be 10 weeks but yes, they will give him a run.

I think it will be significant, because this is his last shot. If he fails, he will see his contract out at BHH and would need a lot of luck to get another one.

I still have hope that he will find his form, and not writing him off due to the Geelong match sim.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Then they’re being overly simplistic. Basically.

Every year is different for players, whether it’s due to the preseason they have had, their home life, their role in the team, other players roles in the team, their confidence, their body…. Worpel had poor form in 2022, then busted his shoulder and missed half the year. Half his preseason has been non-contact and he started hitting match sim just before Christmas(from memory).

He’s now been given 1 match simulation against opposition in February to recapture his form?

Throwing out a “well he wasn’t great last year or the year before, so I’m just going to say he can’t ever be good again” is quite ignorant of the work that both players and coaches continually do to get players right for the season and find their mojo.

What’s wrong with giving him 2, 3 or 4 games to see if he can find some form, rather then writing him off after a single game in Feb?

I'm not saying he wont ever be good again but I think it is valid to question his viability going forward when he has regressed quite a lot.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

He's had three years of average to poor form with no sign of him being able to arrest the tide.

The main issues that plagued him even during his one good season were his kicking, decision making and keeping his feet in the contest - all of which were on display last week against the Cats.

Odds, history, common sense, etc. all tell us that this is just his actual level and the 2019 version was the anomaly. Hopefully we are wrong and we get the good version back, but I just can't see it happening. It would be a huge plus for our rebuild if he does though and just a bonus for the season.

 

[The Chad and I]

Worpel gonna smash it.
LFG!!

 

[Clickgotheshears]

In deciding whether or not to delist Worps (or any other player) three questions I'd ask would be:

What metric(s) does he underperform in?
Which way is that data trending?
What is the catalyst for change?

Delivery inside forward 50 seems to be an issue for Worps (although I don't have any data to support my hypothesis). Why do we see this changing in the future? (He's working on this in training? He's speaking to a psychologist?)

It's easy to be a critic from the outside, but it's important to understand we also don't always have access to important information which may change the assumptions we initially had.

 

[Sixpence]

He's had three years of average to poor form with no sign of him being able to arrest the tide.

The main issues that plagued him even during his one good season were his kicking, decision making and keeping his feet in the contest - all of which were on display last week against the Cats.

Odds, history, common sense, etc. all tell us that this is just his actual level and the 2019 version was the anomaly. Hopefully we are wrong and we get the good version back, but I just can't see it happening. It would be a huge plus for our rebuild if he does though and just a bonus for the season.

Yes and no, you can't play at a higher level than what you're capable of, so technically what he showed in 2019, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to get back to that. Though, like you, we're all pretty stumped why he hasn't!

 

[HedgeFund]

Yes and no, you can't play at a higher level than what you're capable of, so technically what he showed in 2019, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to get back to that. Though, like you, we're all pretty stumped why he hasn't!

Tom Phillips in 2018 was 6th in the Copeland trophy (age 22) when they almost won the flag, and then finished 8th in 2019.

Had plenty of “upside” as a 23 year old about to reach his prime.

Three seasons later he isn’t even an AFL listed player.

Would anyone have suggested he couldn’t reach his 2018 form when he came to us in 2021?

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

What’s wrong with giving him 2, 3 or 4 games to see if he can find some form, rather then writing him off after a single game in Feb?

The issue isn't his form - he's shown he can get the ball. What's holding him back is his disposal efficiency. If anything it's regressed from what we've seen so far this year.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The issue isn't his form - he's shown he can get the ball. What's holding him back is his disposal efficiency. If anything it's regressed from what we've seen so far this year.

You’re judging him from a game in February.

Not to say that his disposal efficiency is going to shoot through the roof but judging any players disposals in February is pretty ridiculous to me.

People need to be patient before jumping to conclusions on whether he can re-capture his best form.

 

[tommyk72]

You’re judging him from a game in February.

Not to say that his disposal efficiency is going to shoot through the roof but judging any players disposals in February is pretty ridiculous to me.

People need to be patient before jumping to conclusions on whether he can re-capture his best form.

It's not just judging from Feb though. It's judging from the last three years, with many of us keeping a keen eye to try and see if there appears to be any tangible improvement over the preseason. So far, there's little to give us optimism that he's addressed the issues with his disposal that we all know plague his game.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's not just judging from Feb though. It's judging from the last three years, with many of us keeping a keen eye to try and see if there appears to be any tangible improvement over the preseason. So far, there's little to give us optimism that he's addressed the issues with his disposal that we all know plague his game.

It isnt just February though, as every year is different.

He’s not come into this year at the same weight, with the same plan, with the same coaching, with the same role.

He acknowledged he had a bad year in 2022. We know he’s coming back from a shoulder. He acknowledged that he and Sam had spoken about his output in 2022. He acknowledged that he wanted to lose some weight and play lighter.

And what does he get for that? Does he get supporters saying “I hope he can put into play the things he and Sam want to see him improve on, in a different role, with different players around him… I’ll give him some games to see if he can do it.”?

No, instead I read pages of people readying their knives after a SINGLE match simulation in February.

 

[tommyk72]

It isnt just February though, as every year is different.

He’s not come into this year at the same weight, with the same plan, with the same coaching, with the same role.

He acknowledged he had a bad year in 2022. We know he’s coming back from a shoulder. He acknowledged that he and Sam had spoken about his output in 2022. He acknowledged that he wanted to lose some weight and play lighter.

And what does he get for that? Does he get supporters saying “I hope he can put into play the things he and Sam want to see him improve on, in a different role, with different players around him… I’ll give him some games to see if he can do it.”?

No, instead I read pages of people readying their knives after a SINGLE match simulation in February.

I think people would be ecstatic to see him earn a place in the side. I think what people are also saying is that if he keeps on playing the same way he has played in BOTH the intraclub and the simulation then that will be unlikely. Should the latter occur, he'll struggle to stay on the list.

Yes there are lots of potentially mitigating factors, but many people have been burnt in years gone by hoping for improvement in form by James, and it just hasn't happened. I really hope this year is the year.

 

[Yardie]

I think people would be ecstatic to see him earn a place in the side. I think what people are also saying is that if he keeps on playing the same way he has played in BOTH the intraclub and the simulation then that will be unlikely. Should the latter occur, he'll struggle to stay on the list.

Yes there are lots of potentially mitigating factors, but many people have been burnt in years gone by hoping for improvement in form by James, and it just hasn't happened. I really hope this year is the year.

Sam has to be ruthless if it is required. (But he has to be given the chance in season proper)

What does worry me is that all coaches see a bit of themselves in certain players and can push for them when they really need to take off the blinkers. I can see it a bit here with Worpel/Sam and also think might be the case of Bramble/Kade.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

You’re judging him from a game in February.

Not to say that his disposal efficiency is going to shoot through the roof but judging any players disposals in February is pretty ridiculous to me.

People need to be patient before jumping to conclusions on whether he can re-capture his best form.

He's being judged on his three previous years though. It's not as if there was a magical reset at the end of last season and 2020 to 2022 were just wiped from our memories.

It will be interesting to see whether Mitchell gives Worpel the season, even if he's playing like he did over the last three years - or will he drop him for the likes of Mackenzie, Stephens, Butler/Brockman (and rotating Moore/MacDonald through the middle more) and only bring him in when they are sore.

I suppose it will never be as cut and dry as that, but I suspect Mitchell will favour the second option if Worpel struggles early on.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

He's being judged on his three previous years though. It's not as if there was a magical reset at the end of last season and 2020 to 2022 were just wiped from our memories.

Did you read my post at all?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Did you read my post at all?

You’re judging him from a game in February.

Not to say that his disposal efficiency is going to shoot through the roof but judging any players disposals in February is pretty ridiculous to me.

People need to be patient before jumping to conclusions on whether he can re-capture his best form.

Yes. What part of my post doesn't respond to any of that?

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

No, instead I read pages of people readying their knives after a SINGLE match simulation in February.

I'm not sharpening anything but I do know that from the intraclub and the matchsim his disposal has been a talking point in the stats box.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

You’re judging him from a game in February.

Not to say that his disposal efficiency is going to shoot through the roof but judging any players disposals in February is pretty ridiculous to me.

People need to be patient before jumping to conclusions on whether he can re-capture his best form.

I'm judging him on the last 36 months, anything productive we get out of Worpel now is a bonus. 2019 was a long time ago.

 

[theiaofseed]

I'm judging him on the last 36 months, anything productive we get out of Worpel now is a bonus. 2019 was a long time ago.

Averaging 20+ disposals and 4+ clearances over 2020 and 2021 isn't awful I'm not sure why people are acting like it is.

 

[Brishawk]

I think we have little to lose and much to gain by giving him a run of games in the seniors to find his confidence and form. Let’s see if he even gets picked for round , I guess. Will tell us a bit about the coaches view.