Strategy A proper forward structure

[Harlott]

I feel like there’s a bit of seduction happening here on the weekend’s game. Saying that, my preference is always don’t mess with something that worked, especially how ridiculously it worked on Sat night.
If the selectors go with Marshall to replace Evans for whatever reason, I would want him to take whatever the team took before last Saturday’s game.
The last thing teammates would want to see is some of the efforts he’s dished up this year.

 

[pstew2dstew]

Right now we still have Marshall and Ivan an to a lesser extent Dante Lord that can replace Dixon.

They are not world beaters but handy enough to be a replacement.

Esava is a good problem to have

 

[raptalia]

I’d be grooming Lord to replace Dixon.


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Ollie Lord won't make it. He is another of the Hinkley failed talls. Ollie has had 19 games to show that he has what it takes and he has really only fired in one of them. There are only so many chances you can give a kid. Esava is 26 so he has 5-6 years left in his tank and we should focus on getting the best out of him rather than wasting our time . As has been suggested get Esava a kicking coach to sort out his kicking technique and he might surprise. Esava kicked 1.4 on Saturday and that could and maybe should have been 4.1.

Put Ollie Lord on the market, he is the grandson of a Brownlow Medallist in Alistair Lord so maybe Geelong will have some interest. Tom Hawkins is 36 so maybe they will see Ollie Lord as a potential replacement?

 

[1954]

Ollie Lord won't make it. He is another of the Hinkley failed talls. Ollie has had 19 games to show that he has what it takes and he has really only fired in one of them. There are only so many chances you can give a kid. Esava is 26 so he has 5-6 years left in his tank and we should focus on getting the best out of him rather than wasting our time . As has been suggested get Esava a kicking coach to sort out his kicking technique and he might surprise. Esava kicked 1.4 on Saturday and that could and maybe should have been 4.1.

Put Ollie Lord on the market, he is the grandson of a Brownlow Medallist in Alistair Lord so maybe Geelong will have some interest. Tom Hawkins is 36 so maybe they will see Ollie Lord as a potential replacement?

Lord's lack of form is definitely a concern, he should be the big bodied heir apparent to Dixon but take out his 4 goals against brisvegas and his highlights reel at AFL level would be just about empty, and apart from the occasional cameo he has never really turned it on for the Maggies either, but he isn't Robinson Crusoe in that department as a number of Power listed players have looked very ordinary at sanfl level.

In his defence he did have a late start to the season and Charlie's imminent retirement will probably save him, but another season like this one and the red pen would have to be hovering.

 

[The Hobo]

Perhaps won't happen this season and rightfully so given its late but Marshall should be developed as a utility in the offseason

He'd be the ideal sub for us. He can run, tackle and deliver inside 50 superbly. He can't take a contested mark, but he reads play really well that he could become a really solid intercept marker.

I'm not a fan of this - the sub needs to provide energy and effort. Not something I associate with Todd.
Additionally, you've stated he can run, tackle and deliver inside 50 - I don't think he can run or tackle effectively. Yes, his delivery inside 50 is elite.

There'll be games we play where the contested brutes like Esava and Dixon won't pay dividends due to opposition's defensive structure. That's where Marshall can provide a point of difference and uses his forward craft to lead into space, hoping someone chips the ball to him inside 50.

That's what Georgiadis is currently doing well for us.

And in games that are done early (win/loss), we can sub Dixon out at 3QT and Marshall can come in. That'd also help keep Dixon fresh and fit which is vital for us.

The only role that would not be a direct sub if we had Marshall is if we were subbing out a small forward. But I'd say we have enough versatility in the team to work something out.

We're currently a tall team, if we need to sub off a smaller player, where do we play Todd? Moving Esava back will ruin the chemistry we have there. And I don't think Todd is a genuine option to play on the wing/midfield - so then we're stuck playing Esava, Charlie, Georgy and TOdd in the one forward line. If it happens to be wet, the opposition will just run the ball out of our 50 at will.

 

[The Hobo]

I think Todd's go is playing higher because he's good that kick and a half from goal & delivering inside 50 to others, but he needs to be in form don't get me wrong I wanted him dropped a few weeks back because he looks low on confidence and is just loafing around. I rate Esava in the air always have it's everything else that's an issue his kicking and decision making is a lottery.

I agree - but if he can't provide a contest, he can't command a place in the team - regardless of the role or his potential.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Ollie Lord won't make it. He is another of the Hinkley failed talls. Ollie has had 19 games to show that he has what it takes and he has really only fired in one of them.

If you're referring to the final where he kicked multiple goals, when experienced teammates all over the ground could not, that's not his only good game.

I'd prefer to give a guy that's shown he has it in him to perform under finals pressure, a buttload of chances. Talls take longer to develop, we all know that. If Lord had had anywhere near the number of chances Shoulderless Todd has had, to come good, then there might be a conversation to be had.

 

[The Hobo]

Ollie Lord won't make it. He is another of the Hinkley failed talls. Ollie has had 19 games to show that he has what it takes and he has really only fired in one of them. There are only so many chances you can give a kid. Esava is 26 so he has 5-6 years left in his tank and we should focus on getting the best out of him rather than wasting our time . As has been suggested get Esava a kicking coach to sort out his kicking technique and he might surprise. Esava kicked 1.4 on Saturday and that could and maybe should have been 4.1.

Put Ollie Lord on the market, he is the grandson of a Brownlow Medallist in Alistair Lord so maybe Geelong will have some interest. Tom Hawkins is 36 so maybe they will see Ollie Lord as a potential replacement?

Rubbish, key position players take time to develop. Lord has shown plenty of promise last season (aside from his goalkicking).
It's far too early to call him a failure. Agree that this year has been a regression, but this is not at all unusual for young players.

Let's also not forget he also had a bad knee injury early which interrupted his season. I have plenty of faith in Lord, there's no way i'm writing him off anytime soon.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Ollie Lord has had to re-do 2 pre-seasons, with the lacerated kidney in 2023 and the knee injury in 2024.

 

[raptalia]

Rubbish, key position players take time to develop. Lord has shown plenty of promise last season (aside from his goalkicking).
It's far too early to call him a failure. Agree that this year has been a regression, but this is not at all unusual for young players.

Let's also not forget he also had a bad knee injury early which interrupted his season. I have plenty of faith in Lord, there's no way i'm writing him off anytime soon.

Tough call maybe but Ollie has not shown enough. He goes missing and does not impose himself on the game. You have obviously seen something in 18 games that I have missed. He averages 5.5 disposals with 2.3 marks per game and 1.0 goals a game and that is not nearly enough.

If Ollie's injury history is a problem then perhaps he should not have been selected in the AFL side? This is a team sport and we cannot afford to carry passengers.

 

[The Hobo]

Tough call maybe but Ollie has not shown enough. He goes missing and does not impose himself on the game. You have obviously seen something in 18 games that I have missed. He averages 5.5 disposals with 2.3 marks per game and 1.0 goals a game and that is not nearly enough.

If Ollie's injury history is a problem then perhaps he should not have been selected in the AFL side? This is a team sport and we cannot afford to carry passengers.

I'm not at all suggesting we play him right now, whilst we have 3 KF's in good form.

But he's shown enough to be worth persisting with into next season and potentially at least one more.

We all want players to develop quickly, but the reality is that KPP take longer to develop - particularly ones in the Lord mold, who are expected to physically compete with big gorilla key defenders. He needs to keep working on things like his strength etc.

I'm basing all my faith in him from what I saw last season (and not just the final, across his entire body of work last season). As I said, this season, he's regressed and been poor, but he looked extremely promising last season aside from his goalkicking. if he'd actually kicked straight, his numbers would look good. The important thing was that his misses were from very good kicking positions. So he's getting opportunities in good positions, and IF we can fix his kicking, then he becomes a massive threat.

I don't think his injury record is a concern since he's been here, he's had a few but nothing too concerning as far as I can see.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I am so sick of our forward line. It has to change.

Dixon is too immobile to be anything other than a forward/ruck because his immobility prevents us playing another forward/ruck. And in that role the more mobile Lord is probably in front of him.

Finlayson isn't a ruckman arseh*le. Never will be when it matters.

You can get away with one soft finisher but not two. Marshall or Finlayson. Pick one.

You can't play all defensive small forwards.

Georgie is our FF now. Base the forward line around him.

What it should looke like.

Rioli Georgiades Lord
SPP Marshall Rozee

With Rioli out we should play one of our young goal kicking forwards. If they aren't up to it yet recruit a mature ager from the 2s that actually kicks goals as a stop gap. We should have done this in the MSD.

Georgie as the FF and primary target.

Lord as the bail out option, not plan A. If he isn't cutting it as a FP or ruck play Dixon or Scully, or play 2 rucks.

SPP as the pressure forward. As he is injured play DBJ, or rotate through til one actually does his job.

Marshall needs to get in the boxing ring.

Then play a mid as the high half forward. We have enough that are dangerous forward to have rozee play the Steve Johnson role.

In other words just play a normally structured forward line. Dixon being plan A and not allowing us to play a proper forward/ruck has stuffed up our structure too long.


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We are much closer to this "proper forward line" now.

Dixon has become that 2nd ruck.

Esava is playing the more physical role I wanted Marshall to step up to.

Georgie is now our FF.

And Ollie, JHF and Willem stepping up has freed up Rozee and Butters to be damaging forward of centre.

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[ClintEastwood]

If Ollie's injury history is a problem then perhaps he should not have been selected in the AFL side? This is a team sport and we cannot afford to carry passengers.

I don't know where you stand on Toddles, but I'm gonna assume you're a fan. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll wait for that answer while I also wait to see how the "This is a team sport and we cannot afford to carry passengers" statement ages.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

It's an interesting point because as it stands we have Esava, Georgiades, Marshall, Lord, Scully, Finlayson

I think we need a KPF, maybe more if one of Marshall or Finlayson retire out of necessity. It'll depend on whether Dixon kicks on too.

One would argue we lack good quality depth in general other than HB and wing positions.

Our forward line is the main issue.
Dixon is on his last legs, Marshall is one huge hit from never playing AFL again, Finlayson is depth, Lord and Scully are young.
Georgiades has been a revelation and will be our spearhead for the next 10 years.
Esava, while not perfect, is a good mark and his frenetic nature suits playing half forward. He's quick and has good hands and when he brings the ball to ground is always looking for a runner but has to work on his kicking in the off season. It is a handful of games in but he is doing the job.

That's why I've said we should go for Lukosius but it seems he's a Cow supporter and although he is not perfect, it is just what we need for the team. He would add an extra dimension to the forward line. I think he would work really well with Georgiades and our forward line in general.

The guy that interests me on our list that I don't know a lot about is Xavier Walsh.

 

[Addy23]

Our forward line is the main issue.
Dixon is on his last legs, Marshall is one huge hit from never playing AFL again, Finlayson is depth, Lord and Scully are young.
Georgiades has been a revelation and will be our spearhead for the next 10 years.
Esava, while not perfect, is a good mark and his frenetic nature suits playing half forward. He's quick and has good hands and when he brings the ball to ground is always looking for a runner but has to work on his kicking in the off season. It is a handful of games in but he is doing the job.

That's why I've said we should go for Lukosius but it seems he's a Cow supporter and although he is not perfect, it is just what we need for the team. He would add an extra dimension to the forward line. I think he would work really well with Georgiades and our forward line in general.

The guy that interests me on our list that I don't know a lot about is Xavier Walsh.

I am not convinced that Luko will work in this team. It's the same issue as Marshall and MG. Ken's gameplan is better suited to 2 contested beasts like Esava and Dixon with Georgiades as a point of difference. I don't think we can fit MG and Marshall, and as much as people may disagree, Marshall's stats are similar if not better to Luko. So I think Luko is a no for me but I'm open to drafting KPFs

 

[Nemisis]

I would love to see Luko in our team.
There is a lot of love for Esava in this thread however I think the jury is still out. His kicking is terrible.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I am not convinced that Luko will work in this team. It's the same issue as Marshall and MG. Ken's gameplan is better suited to 2 contested beasts like Esava and Dixon with Georgiades as a point of difference. I don't think we can fit MG and Marshall, and as much as people may disagree, Marshall's stats are similar if not better to Luko. So I think Luko is a no for me but I'm open to drafting KPFs

I definitely get what you're saying but Luko can kick them from 60.

He's got foot skills, a good IQ and marking skills and likes to kick a goal. Not super hard at it. I could see Mitch and Luko working well together. They are both good on the lead too.

 

[RangaInTeal]

I am not convinced that Luko will work in this team. It's the same issue as Marshall and MG. Ken's gameplan is better suited to 2 contested beasts like Esava and Dixon with Georgiades as a point of difference. I don't think we can fit MG and Marshall, and as much as people may disagree, Marshall's stats are similar if not better to Luko. So I think Luko is a no for me but I'm open to drafting KPFs

Perfect replacement for Houston

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Perfect replacement for Houston

He supposedly doesn't want to play down back so that is a bit of a red flag.

 

[RangaInTeal]

He supposedly doesn't want to play down back so that is a bit of a red flag.

I call BS, you going to deny going from a Basketcase in the Gold Coast to the Second place team in the comp and dictate to them where you play. It’s up to the Coaching group to convince him this is how we want to play and how big a cog we see him moving forward.

Tell him he can Play CHF/FF in State of Origin games

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I call BS, you going to deny going from a Basketcase in the Gold Coast to the Second place team in the comp and dictate to them where you play. It’s up to the Coaching group to convince him this is how we want to play and how big a cog we see him moving forward.

Tell him he can Play CHF/FF in State of Origin games

I dunno.

He had a very good year down back in 2021 and never went back.

If you have a look at his stats, he can play the half back quarterback easily. He has some crazy metres gained games that look like he could easily play the Houston or Bergman role.

 

[Addy23]

I definitely get what you're saying but Luko can kick them from 60.

He's got foot skills, a good IQ and marking skills and likes to kick a goal. Not super hard at it. I could see Mitch and Luko working well together. They are both good on the lead too.

This is exactly the issue though, we dont work well when we have 2 forwards that lead. Thats why Marshall and MG dont work that well together.

Perfect replacement for Houston

I agree on this, and have said in past that his best position is in the backline. He supposedly doesnt want to play there. And he's naturally not self-motivated. 2 red flags for me

I would love to see Luko in our team.
There is a lot of love for Esava in this thread however I think the jury is still out. His kicking is terrible.

Regarding Esava, I think the love he gets is because he competes and takes marks or worst case brings them to ground and tackles. Yes his kicking is terrible, but if you see Ken's plan of going long and bombing it in, Esava and Dixon are crucial to that. Vossy took our gameplan and implemented it at Carlton and while their issues lie elsewhere, their entries into fwd 50 are normally efficient cause they have McKay and Curnow. Dixon and Esava arent the same but all they have to do is bring the ball to ground. Often in the past, Marshall or Lord or Finlayson get outmarked and Dixon did too cause he had 2 on him. Now with Esava there, the match-ups have changed and ball retention inside 50 is much higher. I am shocked Ken & co pulled off this move (I was only waffling about it for 6 weeks before they did it) but I've never seen a change of this magnitude mid-season

 

[PJ Power]

I can’t remember Esava getting outmarked more than 5 times total in the last month. Against Buckley/Taylor in a few weeks, that will be important.

 

[philthy05]

This is exactly the issue though, we dont work well when we have 2 forwards that lead. Thats why Marshall and MG dont work that well together.

Mitch and Todd “not working well together” has no factual basis

 

[Addy23]

Mitch and Todd “not working well together” has no factual basis

Maybe my choice of words weren't accurate. Esava, Dixon and Georgiades are a better trio than Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades. There's reasons to that, some of which are mentioned in the Champion Data analysis below.



Based on this, unless you play 4 talls which is unlikely, I'd say the combo of Marshall and Georgiades alongside 1 of Dixon or Esava doesn't work as effectively for our gameplan. Its literally the 2 wicketkeepers concept and there indeed is facts to back it up.

I love Todd, been a huge fan of him since before he get drafted. Our gameplan simply doesnt fit both Marshall and Georgiades unless you try with 4 talls, which doesnt have much data. If our coach changed and ball movement with it, Todd could easily slot back in.