Welcome Welcome to the Hawks Jack Scrimshaw

[SammyC]

I think he is fringe unless he develops more strings to his bow. Can he lock down if he has too? Play on different types? or consistently make a mid or fwd contribution? At the moment, no, no and no.

He is an attacking weapon but we want to release Sicily into that role and use CJ. How many do we need. Frost might be an inferior player but fills the role we need down back.

 

[Threadkilla]

I rate Scrim. I still can’t work out why he hasn’t been training more as a forward. He looked very dangerous up there in the Saints game late last year.

 

[chopflop]

Rate scrim as a third-man up intercept type. Don't rate his ability to defend. Offensively he doesn't overlap run like Birch used to (loved that dink kick through the middle, HB receive and long kick)... Think Sam wants HBFs who run and carry straight through the middle (bramble, Impey, CJ - far more dynamic in this area). Won't be surprised if he spends time in and out of the side.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Bramble has gone past him by the way he plays. Morris is still to come i think if he comes in do thet shift dimma forward

 

[Dewnior]

Bramble has gone past him by the way he plays. Morris is still to come i think if he comes in do thet shift dimma forward

We won't see Tank for a while though right?

 

[Dewnior]

I am big on consistency of performance and it has been an Achilles Heal for the team for the last 5 years.

Actually it's only 12 months for a full rupture.

 

[TheFourPillars]

We won't see Tank for a while though right?

2 to 3 weeks from joining skills

 

[Brishawk]

If he was a better runner, I’d love him to play on the wing. A tall outlet mark who can nail kicks inside fifty would be awesome. Think the way we used Dan Howe but better…

 

[The Chad and I]

Rate scrim as a third-man up intercept type. Don't rate his ability to defend. Offensively he doesn't overlap run like Birch used to (loved that dink kick through the middle, HB receive and long kick)... Think Sam wants HBFs who run and carry straight through the middle (bramble, Impey, CJ - far more dynamic in this area). Won't be surprised if he spends time in and out of the side.

LOL
No chance if he is healthy and fit.

 

[MrPremiership]

Hardwick - Blanck - Impey
Sicily - Frost - CJ

Think that is our starting back 6 right now.

The 7th spot / 1st rotation is probably between Bramble, Scrimshaw, DGB, Morris which will probably depend on form and match ups. You could also run a HBF like Day in there.

 

[burner1]

Rate scrim as a third-man up intercept type. Don't rate his ability to defend. Offensively he doesn't overlap run like Birch used to (loved that dink kick through the middle, HB receive and long kick)... Think Sam wants HBFs who run and carry straight through the middle (bramble, Impey, CJ - far more dynamic in this area). Won't be surprised if he spends time in and out of the side.

yep. We’re pretty stacked at half back and scrim while talented doesn’t fit our needs as well as others.

He really needs to evolve/improve his game - seems largely the same player he was when he started while others continue to evolve/improve their games or positional flexibility. Does he want it? We’ll find out this year.

 

[Mercy Seat]

If he was a better runner, I’d love him to play on the wing. A tall outlet mark who can nail kicks inside fifty would be awesome. Think the way we used Dan Howe but better…

Wasn't their legitimate talk of him making a move to the midfield last year?

 

[Dewnior]

Wasn't their legitimate talk of him making a move to the midfield last year?

Does he have the engine?

 

[Brishawk]

Wasn't their legitimate talk of him making a move to the midfield last year?

There was but outside a couple of cameos it never happened.

 

[KermitJagger]

Wasn't their legitimate talk of him making a move to the midfield last year?

Nah, a bit of wishful thinking. I felt he could play there because of his size, but it seems like we tried him in the midfield a few years back and made up our mind.

 

[AzzaLow]

Not sure how often people can bring up legitimate reasons why Scrimshaw appears to be less favoured by the coaches than other defenders only for you to blatantly ignore them before his becomes mind numbingly circular and repetitive.

Same can be said for both sides of the leisure though no one rates what the other is saying thats the beautiful thing about having a opinion. Sure Scrimmas played in the possibles and not the probables one week prior it should be noted, fast forward a week later he plays with the strong team for 4 quarters v Geelong which should also be noted. It was a day where multiple players struggled with fundamental skills & when you mix that with Sam Mitchell experimenting with the higher press & a couple other things a team like Geelong is always going to be able carve you up.

 

[KermitJagger]

Same can be said for both sides of the leisure though no one rates what the other is saying thats the beautiful thing about having a opinion. Sure Scrimmas played in the possibles and not the probables one week prior it should be noted, fast forward a week later he plays with the strong team for 4 quarters v Geelong which should also be noted. It was a day where multiple players struggled with fundamental skills & when you mix that with Sam Mitchell experimenting with the higher press & a couple other things a team like Geelong is always going to be able carve you up.

Seems to be only one side is saying stuff like "no idea how Scrimshaw isn't a lock in everyone's best 22" - there's flat out denying any concerns (what you and Simon Crawshay are doing) and being realistic that though Scrimshaw is definitely good, if not elite, at some things, he's poor at others which appear to be rated more highly by the coaches.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

You can argue this if you want and things can change but for now, all media, decision-making, track writeups and coach interviews have suggested that Blanck, Sic, Dimma, CJ, Frost and Impey are all starting. You're welcome to think that Scrim is a better player than Frost and Impey and whoever – he might very well be. But Frost and Impey were promoted to leadership group and haven't spent any time in the "2s", so logically, this leaves 1, max 2, spots for Morris, Scrim, DGB and Bramble.

The coaches would be looking at the strengths/weaknesses of those 4 relative to the starting 6:

Morris – Defence-oriented, biggest benefit is he frees Hardwick up to move up the ground. Not sure he offers too much offensively directly and is pretty inexperienced. Not a heap of run and carry but is super tough and could definitely develop that side of his game. Don't think he will get games unless we lose a D-first player like Frost/Blanck/Dimma though

Scrim – Offensive-oriented, excellent penetrating kick and excellent intercept marker. Can easily get involved and impact games, is one of our more consistent players and brings experience (and an experienced body). I think consistency is his best trait for a young and inherently inconsistent side. However, he is a below-average defender, provides minimal run and carry, and has in the past struggled in big moments in games. I’m not sure his strengths – aerial work, intercepts and kicking – provide much point of difference in our current setup. I think he will get a bench spot for our R1 team on talent alone but it wouldn’t surprise me if he is moved out of the rotation here and there if the coaches prioritise run and carry.

DGB – Defence-oriented, mostly I think we would be playing him for developmental purposes. I’m not sure his body is there yet to play a full season as a hugely impactful player. I think he will be in and out of the team but I hope he manages to become a regular in the last half of the season. Denver being in the side (along with Frost) helps Sicily do weird shit like play in the midfield, swing forward etc. Always handy to give the team’s best player more versatility, even if it just means he can be a bit less accountable. Not sure he will get games immediately but will definitely feature in 2023.

Bramble – Offensive-oriented, was pretty rusty with his kicking but is usually a pretty good kick. Provides excellent run and carry and has demonstrated great delivery inside F50 (the highlight for me was his game vs GWS in 2021 with Moore). The coaches have been praising him all summer, and we can’t underrate how important connection will be with such a young side. However his defensive work is pretty bad, although there’s no reason he can’t improve that. He doesn’t provide much aerially either (but with CJ, Sic etc. not sure we need that). From memory he's a hard-worker in-game and definitely is off the field, knows how to get involved. Might not have enough tricks and consistency to make it long-term in the AFL, but if he can start consistently winning the ball 20+ times a game the coaches might see that making up for his defensive short-comings. I personally think he has the most unique skillset to our defense of any of the four, but that's just my opinion.

So you'd pick Scrim for consistency, ball use and intercepting, Bramble for run and carry and delivery by foot on the move, and Morris + DGB for development, mongrel and versatility. It's going to be super interesting to see what the coaches do – especially with a new defensive coach for the first time in a while who might see things a bit differently to Newman.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

You can argue this if you want and things can change but for now, all media, decision-making, track writeups and coach interviews have suggested that Blanck, Sic, Dimma, CJ, Frost and Impey are all starting. You're welcome to think that Scrim is a better player than Frost and Impey and whoever – he might very well be. But Frost and Impey were promoted to leadership group and haven't spent any time in the "2s", so logically, this leaves 1, max 2, spots for Morris, Scrim, DGB and Bramble.

The coaches would be looking at the strengths/weaknesses of those 4 relative to the starting 6:

Morris – Defence-oriented, biggest benefit is he frees Hardwick up to move up the ground. Not sure he offers too much offensively directly and is pretty inexperienced. Not a heap of run and carry but is super tough and could definitely develop that side of his game. Don't think he will get games unless we lose a D-first player like Frost/Blanck/Dimma though

Scrim – Offensive-oriented, excellent penetrating kick and excellent intercept marker. Can easily get involved and impact games, is one of our more consistent players and brings experience (and an experienced body). I think consistency is his best trait for a young and inherently inconsistent side. However, he is a below-average defender, provides minimal run and carry, and has in the past struggled in big moments in games. I’m not sure his strengths – aerial work, intercepts and kicking – provide much point of difference in our current setup. I think he will get a bench spot for our R1 team on talent alone but it wouldn’t surprise me if he is moved out of the rotation here and there if the coaches prioritise run and carry.

DGB – Defence-oriented, mostly I think we would be playing him for developmental purposes. I’m not sure his body is there yet to play a full season as a hugely impactful player. I think he will be in and out of the team but I hope he manages to become a regular in the last half of the season. Denver being in the side (along with Frost) helps Sicily do weird s**t like play in the midfield, swing forward etc. Always handy to give the team’s best player more versatility, even if it just means he can be a bit less accountable. Not sure he will get games immediately but will definitely feature in 2023.

Bramble – Offensive-oriented, was pretty rusty with his kicking but is usually a pretty good kick. Provides excellent run and carry and has demonstrated great delivery inside F50 (the highlight for me was his game vs GWS in 2021 with Moore). The coaches have been praising him all summer, and we can’t underrate how important connection will be with such a young side. However his defensive work is pretty bad, although there’s no reason he can’t improve that. He doesn’t provide much aerially either (but with CJ, Sic etc. not sure we need that). From memory he's a hard-worker in-game and definitely is off the field, knows how to get involved. Might not have enough tricks and consistency to make it long-term in the AFL, but if he can start consistently winning the ball 20+ times a game the coaches might see that making up for his defensive short-comings. I personally think he has the most unique skillset to our defense of any of the four, but that's just my opinion.

So you'd pick Scrim for consistency, ball use and intercepting, Bramble for run and carry and delivery by foot on the move, and Morris + DGB for development, mongrel and versatility. It's going to be super interesting to see what the coaches do – especially with a new defensive coach for the first time in a while who might see things a bit differently to Newman.

Great analysis, very fair to all the players

The only thing i would add is that Scrimmers also has a pretty handy side step which always made me wonder if he could play as a tall midfielder aka Scott Pendlebury.

I would add that personally my worry is that if we play Scrimmers in the VFL he could get discgruntled and might seek greener pastures elsewhere and I don’t want the club to lose a 24 year old with his level of talent and consistency just cause of team balance.

 

[KermitJagger]

Great analysis, very fair to all the players

The only thing i would add is that Scrimmers also has a pretty handy side step which always made me wonder if he could play as a tall midfielder aka Scott Pendlebury.

I would add that personally my worry is that if we play Scrimmers in the VFL he could get discgruntled and might seek greener pastures elsewhere and I don’t want the club to lose a 24 year old with his level of talent and consistency just cause of team balance.

Say Scrimshaw is being asked to improve his game and is dropped, if his response to that is to be disgruntled and move, how is that a trait you want on the list? I sincerely doubt he would, just unsure how it's a serious concern.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Say Scrimshaw is being asked to improve his game and is dropped, if his response to that is to be disgruntled and move, how is that a trait you want on the list? I sincerely doubt he would, just unsure how it's a serious concern.

I'm only postulating but if I am a 24 year old who has just finished top ten in the club B&F and I am getting dropped for team balance (for players who are quite frankly not as talented or consistent as I am) I'd be miffed in his shoes.

And don't worry there are plenty of clubs who would be contacting his manager in that scenario, Jack is a talent and would slot into most teams best 22.

 

[KermitJagger]

I'm only postulating but if I am a 24 year old who has just finished top ten in the club B&F and I am getting dropped for team balance (for players who are quite frankly not as talented or consistent as I am) I'd be miffed in his shoes.

And don't worry there are plenty of clubs who would be contacting his manager in that scenario, Jack is a talent and would slot into most teams best 22.

He's never finished inside the top 10 of our B&F and there's a very good case to be made that he would have missed his 10th place finish this year if we hadn't had so many players, namely Gunston (6 games) who he just edged out, CJ (8 games) and Frost (10 games), miss so much footy.

As it sits, Scrimshaw just scraped in to the top 10 of a bottom 8 teams B&F. It's no resounding success. Both Howe and Shiels were in the top 10 for us in 2021 and both were delisted this season.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Bramble has gone past him by the way he plays. Morris is still to come i think if he comes in do thet shift dimma forward

Dimma is our best lockdown defender, stop trying.

Bramble isn't better than Scrim, Scrim is a much better kick, and a much better intercept player, and defends better.

Bramble can run but we have, Impey, CJ etc, we need more elite ball users.

Bramble is better suited to wing.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Dimma is our best lockdown defender, stop trying.

Bramble isn't better than Scrim, Scrim is a much better kick, and a much better intercept player, and defends better.

Bramble can run but we have, Impey, CJ etc, we need more elite ball users.

Bramble is better suited to wing.

Bramble is not a wingman. people keep saying this but he has consistently trained with the back six for pretty much his entire career, it isn't gonna change for at least this year.

Nobody is arguing that "x" player is better than "y" player. We are simply looking at the potential reasons why the coaches have been so bullish on Bramble and less so on Scrim in the lead up to the season.

 

[KermitJagger]

Bramble is not a wingman. people keep saying this but he has consistently trained with the back six for pretty much his entire career, it isn't gonna change for at least this year.

Nobody is arguing that "x" player is better than "y" player. We are simply looking at the potential reasons why the coaches have been so bullish on Bramble and less so on Scrim in the lead up to the season.

This is the point that seems to continually get lost.

I've said a few times now, it really is up to Scrimshaw whether he's in the 22 or not. Obviously the most talented of the players available and you could make a case that he's the second most talented defender on our list, but it's clear that there is something he isn't doing that the coaches are really looking for. Despite better availability than a lot of others, and perceived consistency from a lot of posters here, he's rarely been singled out for praise nor factored heavily in the B&F or in the AFLCA voting.

It's just silly to ignore at this point.