2nds West Coast Eagles WAFL Watch 2024

[Alesana]

Is the game being broadcast anywhere?

There should a link on this page once it's live

AFL - News, Fixtures, Scores & Results - AFL.com.au

Australian Football League. All the latest AFL news, video, results and information

www.afl.com.au

 

[amazingjoshy]

Are we in a totally different football environment from, say, Adelaide and Port? Who are unhappy with their current setup but looking to put their standalone reserves into the VFL rather than go back to spreading players around the SANFL?



I’ve explained at least three times today and more than a dozen times in this thread what I think needs to change.

I’m not an advocate for keeping the status quo.

But a national ressies comp isn't happening anytime soon from the sounds of it. And unless some miracle happens with the Perth members we also aren't getting an alignment next year

Which, in the meantime, leaves us with the Beagles or farming the players out

You keep comparing us to the rest of the league in your argument against farming the players out, but we're in a completely different situation from nearly all of them

Freo, Port or Adelaide are the only comparable sides, and quite frankly how many flags have been won between those teams in the last 15 years? Maybe we shouldn't be following their leads...

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

But a national ressies comp isn't happening anytime soon from the sounds of it. And unless some miracle happens with the Perth members we also aren't getting an alignment next year

Which, in the meantime, leaves us with the Beagles or farming the players out

We’ve already agreed to field a standalone side in the WAFL in 2025 so we’re doing that next year. We may as well commit to it fully. For a year at least. Going forward the club needs to make a solid decision about what it wants and go at that hard - whether it’s trying to twist the AFL’s arm about subsidizing our VFL entry, or twisting Perth’s arm about an alignment, or committing more long-term to the current model and putting adequate resources behind it.

Or … abandoning the whole thing and going back to farming the players out. Which is “clearly the best model” even though no one else is doing it, and that doesn’t matter because no one else is in the same situation as us except the clubs that are in the same situation as us and still not doing it. It’s clearly the best.

You keep comparing us to the rest of the league in your argument against farming the players out, but we're in a completely different situation from nearly all of them

Freo, Port or Adelaide are the only comparable sides, and quite frankly how many flags have been won between those teams in the last 15 years? Maybe we shouldn't be following their leads...

If we’re talking about what systems win flags, 24 of the last 26 premiers have had all their reserves playing together. Everyone except us in 2006 and Port in 2004. Even our last flag came in the fifth year of having all our ressies playing together at East Perth.

But we’re not allowed to count any of the rest because they’re not from WA or SA so it’s a moot point.

 

[amazingjoshy]

We’ve already agreed to field a standalone side in the WAFL in 2025 so we’re doing that next year. We may as well commit to it fully. For a year at least.

Well it's started well, let's hope we find some players soon hey?

Going forward the club needs to make a solid decision about what it wants and go at that hard - whether it’s trying to twist the AFL’s arm about subsidizing our VFL entry, or twisting Perth’s arm about an alignment, or committing more long-term to the current model and putting adequate resources behind it.

Or … abandoning the whole thing and going back to farming the players out. Which is “clearly the best model” even though no one else is doing it, and that doesn’t matter because no one else is in the same situation as us except the clubs that are in the same situation as us and still not doing it. It’s clearly the best.

Why do we need to be like everyone else? Its a really weird obsession you have. And regardless, theres only 2 other teams in our situation (both the SA sides) and neither of them like it. But you'll keep bringing it up

If we’re talking about what systems win flags, 24 of the last 26 premiers have had all their reserves playing together. Everyone except us in 2006 and Port in 2004. Even our last flag came in the fifth year of having all our ressies playing together at East Perth.

But we’re not allowed to count any of the rest because they’re not from WA or SA so it’s a moot point.

No but none have had a standalone side full of kids and ammos in an already established comp of other sides full of grown men. If i say it another 50 times you might get the difference

Or maybe not

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Why do we need to be like everyone else? Its a really weird obsession you have.

Don’t make me tap the sign.

I need to get a sign made up so I can just tap it rather than say this every time.

If every other AFL club has their reserves playing together, then being the one club that spreads them out would be either a competitive advantage or a competitive disadvantage.

And I don’t see how it can possibly be an advantage.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Don’t make me tap the sign.

Serious question

Do you think Harry Barnett would've got more out of rucking against WAFL reserves ruckman and learning his craft while trying to earn a spot in a senior WAFL side in the last couple of years?

Or doing what he has done and clearly being out of his depth against guys much stronger then being shunted fwd/back in an uncompetitive team?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Serious question

Do you think Harry Barnett would've got more out of rucking against WAFL reserves ruckman and learning his craft while trying to earn a spot in a senior WAFL side in the last couple of years?

Or doing what he has done and clearly being out of his depth against guys much stronger then being shunted fwd/back in an uncompetitive team?

The former. But I’m not sure of the point. How many sides can currently put their young developing rucks in a reserve State league side? Pretty sure it’s only Freo.

Everyone else seems to manage.

 

[amazingjoshy]

The former. But I’m not sure of the point. How many sides can currently put their young developing rucks in a reserve State league side? Pretty sure it’s only Freo.

Everyone else seems to manage.

If we farmed out the players to WAFL teams he would most likely be playing ressies and trying to earn his spot in the seniors

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

If we farmed out the players to WAFL teams he would most likely be playing ressies and trying to earn his spot in the seniors

Or if we aligned with Perth.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Or if we aligned with Perth.

Obviously, alignment is the best solution

But as thats not happening, at least for next year unless something drastically changes, farming the players out in the meantime does offer some competitive advantage no?

 

[TOA.]

Obviously, alignment is the best solution

But as thats not happening, at least for next year unless something drastically changes, farming the players out in the meantime does offer some competitive advantage no?

Farming the players has to have an advantage over the complete disaster that is occurring at the moment.

I am not too bothered about competitive advantage compared to other clubs. Our system has to be the worst in the whole league at the moment? Do any other AFL clubs have completely disjointed seconds team that comes last every year and is barely competitive with young draftees playining and learning with surburban players?

 

[squashface]

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Obviously, alignment is the best solution

But as thats not happening, at least for next year unless something drastically changes, farming the players out in the meantime does offer some competitive advantage no?

But that’s also not happening at least for the next year, since we’ve committed to running the Beagles in 2025.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Farming the players has to have an advantage over the complete disaster that is occurring at the moment.

I am not too bothered about competitive advantage compared to other clubs. Our system has to be the worst in the whole league at the moment? Do any other AFL clubs have completely disjointed seconds team that comes last every year and is barely competitive with young draftees playining and learning with surburban players?

How many bottom AFL clubs have a strong seconds side? It doesn’t work like that. Your reserves side is representative of how your senior side operates.
Our senior side has been a shambles for 4 years. It’s not a coincidence our reserves side has been also. No matter how much we love to blame all in sundry it’s just how it goes.

 

[Astro35]

The simplest solution is to remove the restrictions yes? Alignments and farming players should be last resorts

 

[JoshWoodenSpoon]

Gilbee you’d assume would’ve been the clubs call. Seemed to love his role and popped up on the Eagles Podcast a lot.

Had to have been, was a dream gig. On the poddy it never sounded like he had anything major to do - just rolling around, drive out to the off clinic - and no sense of actual responsibility. Could well have been a bit between he and Thumper, but you sense there was truth to it. I imagine Pyke oversaw a year of it and rightly thought this is a piss-take and not the 'everyone improving every day' sensibility that he's looking to see and install. I love the Milkman, but he really rung out at as the kind of unserious fixture you'd never see at a success-possessed footy club - you can be a 'vibes' character and still have standards.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The simplest solution is to remove the restrictions yes? Alignments and farming players should be last resorts

They are virtually all gone now. The only one left is the salary cap and that can never be lifted.

 

[LittleFires]

Nelson is a big loss. May not have played a game this year but he’s in that bracket of players the Beagles have desperately been searching for.

In his prime (28 years old), a quality state level player and provides much-needed leadership to the younger guys. Seems like a great character so he’ll be tough to replace.

With Ruscoe and Gillbee on the way out as well, I’m a little concerned how we’re going to lure players over to replace them. Based on the last few years it’s not exactly an attractive proposition for potential inclusions.

Just hoping with Steve Trewhella now instated as a genuine football manager for the WAFL team (and Woosha overseeing his role) we can start turning it into something resembling more of an actual footy club, and that the results flow from there. Not holding my breath though

 

[Grahame]

But in all reality fixing the seniors will be the priority.

I agree to a point. I think fixing the seniors should be a priority. I’m not sure if the seniors can get anywhere near full potential while the fringe players are getting SFA development.

I’d think you could make an argument it is more important to prioritise the Beagles given the relatively huge dollars, staff and focus on the seniors.

I’m guessing the worst players in the seniors will still be of a better AFL standard than the worst Beagles are WAFL standard. ????

Plus we could probably say with confidence that the (younger) senior players will develop - because they’ll be dropped if they don’t. Same doesn’t apply for the Beagles.

TLDR: having a credible Beagles side is critical to realising the (full?) potential of the Eagles.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

How many bottom AFL clubs have a strong seconds side? It doesn’t work like that. Your reserves side is representative of how your senior side operates.

Richmond’s reserves won 10/18 games and played finals. North’s reserves won 8/18 games.

Last year Box Hill and North Melbourne both played VFL finals despite their AFL counterparts finishing in the bottom three. And Gold Coast’s reserves were VFL premiers, the seniors finished 15th.

So in answer to your question, pretty much everyone but us.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I agree to a point. I think fixing the seniors should be a priority. I’m not sure if the seniors can get anywhere near full potential while the fringe players are getting SFA development.

I’d think you could make an argument it is more important to prioritise the Beagles given the relatively huge dollars, staff and focus on the seniors.

I’m guessing the worst players in the seniors will still be of a better AFL standard than the worst Beagles are WAFL standard. ????

Plus we could probably say with confidence that the (younger) senior players will develop - because they’ll be dropped if they don’t. Same doesn’t apply for the Beagles.

TLDR: having a credible Beagles side is critical to realising the (full?) potential of the Eagles.

Of course you want a good seconds team to put pressure on your seniors, but if you simply do t have that talent then it’s not there. Having good coaching talent don’t change players ability. You can’t make an average player into a great player. And if you can then it’s one in a thousand.
We have recruited poorly at the Eag;es for many years now, and been coached poorly for many years. It’s the perfect storm.
Yet it’s others fault apparantly.

 

[TOA.]

Of course you want a good seconds team to put pressure on your seniors, but if you simply do t have that talent then it’s not there. Having good coaching talent don’t change players ability. You can’t make an average player into a great player. And if you can then it’s one in a thousand.
We have recruited poorly at the Eag;es for many years now, and been coached poorly for many years. It’s the perfect storm.
Yet it’s others fault apparantly.

I dont think anyone is saying the Beagles is solely to blame and everyone would agree is the combination of poor drafting, poor coaching, poor development via the Beagles that have got us here (and other stuff). We have changed our RM, we have changed our coach, I think some of us want to see change at the Beagles and how our reserves are set up. I think that is fair.

 

[Cuzz09]

Another problem is fringe guys just getting cut when given the choice probably would rather play in lower local Vic leagues than WAFL for WCE because they would have more eyes on them from AFL recruiters.

Which lessens the pool

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Astro35]

They are virtually all gone now. The only one left is the salary cap and that can never be lifted.

Oh, didn't know that. So we can recruit like the other WAFL clubs?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Oh, didn't know that. So we can recruit like the other WAFL clubs?

Yes those restrictions were nearly all gone this year, we chose to not recruit and use our points allocation.
Or we couldn’t find anyone available to play for us?
Recruiting should no longer be an excuse.

 

[chaddy22]

For those who are wondering here we stand as regard the beagles for 2025

Up to eighty-three (83) cumulative player points• Up to twenty (22) Protected Players• Minimum of 25 WAFL Contracted players listed at all times.• Total Player Payments: 65% + Competitive BalanceBase TPP + (Super) $152,750 + ($18,330)Competitive Balance Rules + (Super) $13,000 + ($1,560)Total Ex $165,750 + ($19,890)Total Inc. Super $185,640.00

To put this in perspective Peel have 80 points and run a league and reserves teams and a minimum 55 players on their list.
The beagles have 83 points and a minimum 25 players. It looks like we can have as many players as we like so long as they don't exceed the 83 points cap.as a comparison East Perth, West Perth ,Claremont, Subiaco, Swans and East Freo have 90 points. Souths and Perth have more points under the competitive model.

The salary cap is two thirds of most wafl clubs. Remember Wafl have a minimum 55 players on their list and have to pay all their Wafl players match payments unlike the Beagles who will have Afl listed players on Afl contracts who are not included in the Beagles TPP.

It is really up to the Beagles to recruit decent players from Other leagues.
East Perth have lost Crowden and Schumacher to the Sanfl. They have recruited delisted Afl Geelong/Hawthorn player Cooper Stephens. I suspect he will be one of the better paid players at East Perth and the club will find him a decent job.

No reason the Beagles can't do the same especially with so many players leaving the club.