Western Region FL - Division One - Part 3

[PhiloBeddoe]

The TAC clubs are instructed by the AFL .....

Top post Tige. The AFL may have a hand in the identification process but then you have the problem with the interpretation of these guidelines. Once again, the questions arise, how qualified are the recruiters and what are they being asked to look for? I'm not buying the 'AFL Coaches in waiting' line that the talent pool is shallow. One of these coaches had a good squad a few years back but his perception of some of these boys was tainted by influential others. Same goes for some of the coaches of the younger development teams who were writing off players. Could have sworn that the boss was a ventriloquist. If you know what I mean?


If the athletes to footballer focus is on the money, players of the Majak Daw ilk wouldn't get a look in. Doesn't disappoint me.

 

[Centimetreperfect]

We surely cant blame the Jets for everything. Firstly our Interleague program in the WRFL hasn't been too successful over the years. From memory the only successful year was the year half the StBernards team were in it at u15 level Wallis,LIbba, MItchell, Schroder. all draftable kids.

every other year our interleague has struggled at all age groups.
I have coached under 18s in recent years in our comp, and i think players get ample oppurtunity to tryout. If our boys deserved a shot surely our 18 or u16 Interleague squads would not have had their pants pulled down against Calder and i think even Riddell this year.

 

[tige19]

We surely cant blame the Jets for everything. Firstly our Interleague program in the WRFL hasn't been too successful over the years. From memory the only successful year was the year half the StBernards team were in it at u15 level Wallis,LIbba, MItchell, Schroder. all draftable kids.

every other year our interleague has struggled at all age groups.
I have coached under 18s in recent years in our comp, and i think players get ample oppurtunity to tryout. If our boys deserved a shot surely our 18 or u16 Interleague squads would not have had their pants pulled down against Calder and i think even Riddell this year.

So both the EDFL and Riddell beat you? As far as junior leagues both are 2 of the better going around, it's no disgrace being beaten by the RDFL, the league draws on players from Sunbury,Melton,Gisborne,Rupertswood,Melton Sth etc who are all huge junior clubs who have fantastic junior programs and coaches. Reading the local rag here recently the coach of the Cannons praised the junior coaches from local clubs in the Calder region and placed alot of the reason for being so dominate with those junior clubs and coaches.
I agree and believe that overall this region probably doesn't have the depth of talent that say Calder do but I doubt there should be that much of a difference in the top 22 from each region, the coaches and staff need to take some form of responsibility. In saying that I can't ever remember losing to the WRFL or Jets in my time of playing against this region! I don't think the Jets or WRFL rep teams have had any form of success over the last decade so it may be a combination of poor recruiting and coaching as well as lack in depth of talent, It probably Is time for a rehall of the system for the Jets.

 

[w.weapons]

We surely cant blame the Jets for everything. Firstly our Interleague program in the WRFL hasn't been too successful over the years. From memory the only successful year was the year half the StBernards team were in it at u15 level Wallis,LIbba, MItchell, Schroder. all draftable kids.

every other year our interleague has struggled at all age groups.
I have coached under 18s in recent years in our comp, and i think players get ample oppurtunity to tryout. If our boys deserved a shot surely our 18 or u16 Interleague squads would not have had their pants pulled down against Calder and i think even Riddell this year.

nope they havnt!!! 2005 or 06 our(wrfl) 15 div 1 side made the grand final......played northern and they had the likes of kruzer and another top 5 afl draft pick(cant remember his name) in their squad too!!!from memory 2 of the kids from the wrfl side played jets and are on vfl lists.......

the runners up medal is somewhere in the trophy cabinet!!!

unlike some wrfl rep coaches the coach and i went to 30-35 matches over a period of time to pick the squad for the carnival.....a's b's and c's....where most kids who play in earlier rep teams get an automatic look in their future years......has the selection process changed these days???

 

[Centimetreperfect]

How many kids in the last 5 unsuccessful years at the jets, have been overlooked by the jets and gone on to play regular AFL or even senior VFL footy??? i cant think of 1.

i personally think there are 2 major issues in our region.
1)Lack of quality coaches at u16/18 level. 2 few good coaches barring your spottys/willi/werribee/hopper/stalbans. all the kids flock to these clubs whcih in turn thins out the talent pool and creates an uneven competition.
2)we as coaches tend to treat our so-called guns like Gods.When they are required to step up to the next level they dont have the drive/work ethic/mental application to compete with other regions.

i read an article about Ben Cunnington not so long ago. when he was bored he would take off on 20km runs. this would happen quite a few times a week. same with Scully, would go for a run or gym session 7 days a week from the time he was 14 to get himself drafted. Now these are the extremes, but how many of our boys in the WRFL go to this level to benefit their footy.

Talent only takes you so far. I know the boys that ive coached although some had talent, NONE have shown the type of dedication it takes to be a successful TAC Cup player and therefore go and put themselves in a position to be drafted.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

How many kids in the last 5 unsuccessful years at the jets, have been overlooked by the jets and gone on to play regular AFL or even senior VFL footy??? i cant think of 1.

i personally think there are 2 major issues in our region.
1)Lack of quality coaches at u16/18 level. ......

1) Realistically the numbers of Jets rejects to get a game at VFL/AFL level will be low anyway. There are also socioeconomic variables which may make travel to Port or even Werribee an issue. Not many would get a look in at Willi due to the Jets connection.
2) You can't speak of extremes and then compare our boys to that. Regardless, players are labeled at U16 level and it sticks.
3) the mentoring at the Jets is an issue if they can't get the majority of the boys to show some dedication. I think they may have cried foul due to a dud zone for too long. Have they learned to be helpless and hopeless when it comes to motivating the boys out west? If so, they are not doing their jobs.
4) Player/s this year have been suspended for 'insubordination' for seeking clarification on issues regarding selection, positioning etc. Last I heard, AFL coaches like Roos and co were embracing Gen Y's need for more information and openness.
5) yes talent will only get you so far but encouraging the hard work ethic beneath the talent just doesn't get done well enough by the adults at the Jets. Blaming the coaches has also been the line taken by the Jets for a few years now. Looks like we are in need of intervention.

E.g. One player who's work ethic could never be questioned was cut part way through the year because he 'wasn't good enough'. A real hard nut that got heaps of it but was a little rough. Another player with Daicos like talent, who was lazy and showed very poor commitment was kept on the list and played. This is only one example of many. So much for the lack of work ethic being an issue.

 

[Centimetreperfect]

1) Realistically the numbers of Jets rejects to get a game at VFL/AFL level will be low anyway. There are also socioeconomic variables which may make travel to Port or even Werribee an issue. Not many would get a look in at Willi due to the Jets connection.
2) You can't speak of extremes and then compare our boys to that. Regardless, players are labeled at U16 level and it sticks.
3) the mentoring at the Jets is an issue if they can't get the majority of the boys to show some dedication. I think they may have cried foul due to a dud zone for too long. Have they learned to be helpless and hopeless when it comes to motivating the boys out west? If so, they are not doing their jobs.
4) Player/s this year have been suspended for 'insubordination' for seeking clarification on issues regarding selection, positioning etc. Last I heard, AFL coaches like Roos and co were embracing Gen Y's need for more information and openness.
5) yes talent will only get you so far but encouraging the hard work ethic beneath the talent just doesn't get done well enough by the adults at the Jets. Blaming the coaches has also been the line taken by the Jets for a few years now. Looks like we are in need of intervention.

E.g. One player who's work ethic could never be questioned was cut part way through the year because he 'wasn't good enough'. A real hard nut that got heaps of it but was a little rough. Another player with Daicos like talent, who was lazy and showed very poor commitment was kept on the list and played. This is only one example of many. So much for the lack of work ethic being an issue.

Yeah some valid points. i think the socio-econominc factor is a bullsh it 1 to be honest. Just making excuses for boys in the west. If they want to make it they'll work their butts off to do it, and if that means the extra travel or a bit more costly. Geez if i had half the talent i would have caught a bus to training every night to make that dream a reality. Although i agree with the Willi thing- would be very difficult to get a gig down there, but im pretty sure Weribee is very accomadating.

 

[footies changed]

Yeah some valid points. i think the socio-econominc factor is a bullsh it 1 to be honest. Just making excuses for boys in the west. If they want to make it they'll work their butts off to do it, and if that means the extra travel or a bit more costly. Geez if i had half the talent i would have caught a bus to training every night to make that dream a reality. Although i agree with the Willi thing- would be very difficult to get a gig down there, but im pretty sure Weribee is very accomadating.

I am sure werribee would love to take them, especially the local guys around werribee, but I believe willi get first dibs on them and don't have to clear them. So unfortunately it isn't that easy.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Yeah some valid points. i think the socio-econominc factor is a bullsh it 1 to be honest. Just making excuses for boys in the west. If they want to make it they'll work their butts off to do it, and if that means the extra travel or a bit more costly. Geez if i had half the talent i would have caught a bus to training every night to make that dream a reality. Although i agree with the Willi thing- would be very difficult to get a gig down there, but im pretty sure Weribee is very accomadating.

I can tell you that the socio-economic factor is far from bullsh!t. I'd be the last to clutch at straws for an excuse for those who are not driven but it's easy to say that a bit more travel or money are irrelevant if you want it enough. I know it's an issue, have seen far too many cases to just pull one out of my half an acre. Don't be fooled by the amount of gold jewellery and news cars flashed around Pt Cook, Tarneit etc because people are mortgaged and financed up to their eyeballs. Local employers (won't name them) are not too accommodating of teens wanting time for school work let alone football dreams. Part time work is often a necessity.
This debate can rage on forever but you and I have the benefit of hindsight and maybe a different era. Some parents may the sacrifice because they have a choice whereas others don't have the luxury.

 

[table tennis]

Plenty of kids in the bush travel hours to games every week, and there has never been a shortage on talent coming from rural Victoria.

In the west, things like drugs and becoming an emo suicidal alcoholic or train station thug are more appealing, especially when centerlink are lining these little chrome heads pockets.

Our school system is full of kids brought up by slack parents, this mentality rubs off on other kids and is seen as cool.
As long as the west Is full of drongo's, whores, drug addicts, commission housing, relaxed schooling and more centrelink offices than supermarkets, the number of kids excelling will be limited. We are all a product of our surroundings.

End of rant

 

[Centre Corridor]

Guys - talking about WRFL v EDFL I can tell you that from U14 up EDFL start squad training in November, so by the time the season starts they pretty much have a settled 25 - 30 in each age group, with a few minor changes to follow. WRFL generally don't start putting squads together until the season start.

This may be coahes not able to put time in, and just because simply this is the way its been done for years. Whatever the reason, change is needed, and hopefully this will help produce better footballers so they are better grounded when they hit the older Jets squads. Sure some of the kids train together at Jet squads, but league squads are different, some kids go back to their leagues and others come in.

 

[tige19]

Plenty of kids in the bush travel hours to games every week, and there has never been a shortage on talent coming from rural Victoria.

In the west, things like drugs and becoming an emo suicidal alcoholic or train station thug are more appealing, especially when centerlink are lining these little chrome heads pockets.

Our school system is full of kids brought up by slack parents, this mentality rubs off on other kids and is seen as cool.
As long as the west Is full of drongo's, whores, drug addicts, commission housing, relaxed schooling and more centrelink offices than supermarkets, the number of kids excelling will be limited. We are all a product of our surroundings.

End of rant

Spot on, this post is the absolute truth, in saying that the responsibility of developing these kids needs to fall back to the coaches of the Jets although it must be hard when these kids role models are dole bludging bums.

I know from around my area (essendon and surrounding suburbs) there are an array of both private and public schools that offer sports programs and in particular football. Schools like PEGS, Essendon Keilor College, St Bernards and now a new school out in Maribyrnong! I may not be as educated in the schooling sector of the west but i'd be almost certain they don't have schools with such options, this is a huge factor as to young peoples thought process. Kids in this area grow up with footy and from high school they play in school comps like the Sun shield, APS and ACC, it's a shame kids in the west don't get the same exposure.

 

[typewriter]

Spot on, this post is the absolute truth, in saying that the responsibility of developing these kids needs to fall back to the coaches of the Jets although it must be hard when these kids role models are dole bludging bums.

I know from around my area (essendon and surrounding suburbs) there are an array of both private and public schools that offer sports programs and in particular football. Schools like PEGS, Essendon Keilor College, St Bernards and now a new school out in Maribyrnong! I may not be as educated in the schooling sector of the west but i'd be almost certain they don't have schools with such options, this is a huge factor as to young peoples thought process. Kids in this area grow up with footy and from high school they play in school comps like the Sun shield, APS and ACC, it's a shame kids in the west don't get the same exposure.

Couldnt agree with you more about the schools in the area. Our schools are really no match for the likes of PEGS/St Bernards. We do have one school in the west making some real headway with their football program - Caroline Springs College. Yes I'm a bit biased but the football program being run there is giving a real avenue for kids out west to concentrate on their footy and id developing at a rate of knots, hilighted by kids wanting to leave the likes of Ess Keil Coll and come to CSC. At Year 9/10 level they made the state final this year and had about 4 kids make the intial u16 Metro squad, along with an AIS representative. These kids are all in the Jets region, so i would hope this would/could translate into a bit more success for the region.

I know at U15/16 level in 2010 the Jets performed very well beating Northern and Calder quite convincingly at various stages, but time will tell if that translates into TAC Cup success over the next few years.

 

[table tennis]

Western jets should be working with certain schools to develop the youth of the area. The outer west has nothing, mackilop had produced a couple, but that can be put down to sheer weight of students attending.

If my kid showed talent in his footy, I would move heaven and earth to get him to the right school, just like if I had a daughter who was good at art, I would get her to a great art school.

 

[typewriter]

Western jets should be working with certain schools to develop the youth of the area. The outer west has nothing, mackilop had produced a couple, but that can be put down to sheer weight of students attending.

If my kid showed talent in his footy, I would move heaven and earth to get him to the right school, just like if I had a daughter who was good at art, I would get her to a great art school.

Spot On!!!

 

[bangfrom50]

Spot On!!!

Is this thread WRFL Div 1? Wouldn't know it from the last 2 pages of tripe being written. Start up your own thread fools, we don't care about where 16yo kids go to school, part time jobs or the Western Jets.
Now let's get back on track
We want news on B&F's & footy trips

 

[typewriter]

Sorry Bangers. The last 2 pages of western jets talk is disrupting the other enthralling coversation that has taken place on here over the last week.

 

[table tennis]

Is this thread WRFL Div 1? Wouldn't know it from the last 2 pages of tripe being written. Start up your own thread fools, we don't care about where 16yo kids go to school, part time jobs or the Western Jets.
Now let's get back on track
We want news on B&F's & footy trips

Its all relevant. The reason why the WRFL standard has fallen away, is interlinked with the demise of the Jets. IF the are no good Juniors coming through the region, then all local sides will improve.

 

[Golden Tonsils]

Is this thread WRFL Div 1? Wouldn't know it from the last 2 pages of tripe being written. Start up your own thread fools, we don't care about where 16yo kids go to school, part time jobs or the Western Jets.
Now let's get back on track
We want news on B&F's & footy trips

How are the B&F's looking, curious to see how Johnny Haldane would go at the Albion vote count, after winning the Herb Pascarl Medal?

 

[footy power]

Sorry Bangers. The last 2 pages of western jets talk is disrupting the other enthralling coversation that has taken place on here over the last week.

Lets talk about ALBION winning the flag again..

In fact lets talk about how no one from Spotty congratulated the CATS on BF and mentioned how they were beaten by the better side!
All the Snr Spotty players got on here talking it up how the have a new coach and how good he will go bla blah!! none of them failed to mention there loss, especially how cocky they were on here all season!!

 

[secure38]

WRFL under 18 interleague squads are selected with the exclusion of Jets listed players. Not sure about the rest of the squads and I have no idea about the other comps. Apparently it is designed these days to showcase the talent that is not at the Jets. A good idea would be to have the previous years premiership coach coach the rep side. So next year it would be Phil O'keefe?

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Spot on, this post is the absolute truth, in saying that the responsibility of developing these kids needs to fall back to the coaches of the Jets although it must be hard when these kids role models are dole bludging bums.

I know from around my area (essendon and surrounding suburbs) there are an array of both private and public schools that offer sports programs and in particular football. Schools like PEGS, Essendon Keilor College, St Bernards and now a new school out in Maribyrnong! I may not be as educated in the schooling sector of the west but i'd be almost certain they don't have schools with such options, this is a huge factor as to young peoples thought process. Kids in this area grow up with footy and from high school they play in school comps like the Sun shield, APS and ACC, it's a shame kids in the west don't get the same exposure.

At the same time, if this is the overwhelming perception of our kids (mentioned in post you replied to) brought about by a few bad eggs, then fold the Jets and send a select few to the Falcons and Cannons now. I wonder if the TAC governing body feels the same and views the zone as a basket case? If so, then they'd let it run its course, use the club as a ladder filler and not even attempt to pump extra resources into it. At last count, the Jets has one full time employee, the GM(think it's the right title)...hardly adequate. Unsure if it has changed in the last few years.

Apart from the private/catholic schools schools who have the cash, resources and freedom to run specialist programs, EKC and Marby College would have obtained extra funds and resources to build such programs. Other government schools out west have no freedom, time, extra funds or resources to run them. The government is not usually going to agree to more schools requesting permission specialist sports programs because it means more dollars. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as saying 'let's run a specialist sports program.' There's plenty of red tape and financial constraints to make it very hard if not impossible for most schools out west.

 

[GameOver]

So we blow up the Jets because it's full of no-hopers?? Let's put this into perspective.

Western Jets
2010 - 3 wins, finished 11th
2009 - 6 wins, 11th
2008 - 11 wins, 7th

Bendigo Pioneers
2010 - 1 win, last place
2009 - 4 wins, 12th
2008 - 5 wins, 10th

Bendigo have finished in last place 5 times, Jets 3 times. Neither has ever won the comp. Bendigo were runners-up in 2001. Jets 1992/93 (combined with Calder Cannons though).

Notable names drafted from both clubs:
Jets - Brad Johnson (not in Calder zone), Giansiracusa, Callan Ward, Houli, Prismall, Rischitelli, Scotland, Brad Miller
Pioneers - Selwood brothers, Dustin Martin, Sylvia, Andrew Walker, Dal Santo, Daniel Harris, Tarrant, Solomon

Pioneers seems to have the better list there.

Sandringham Dragons - Have finished last place 4 times (1992, 96,07, 09) won only once.

 

[tige19]

You can hardly use sandringham as a comparison as 70% of there kids play private school footy which takes priority over TAC Cup, they basically field there 2nd side for most of the year.

The Pioneers one is s funny one, no doubt things need to be looked at there as well, they have such a huge array of kids to select from you have to wonder why they do no good especially when footy is drummed into them at a young age.

There is no doubt that the kids in the west aren't supported by there parents as strongly as other regions to reach there full potential as footballers. Whether that be financialy or not, the fact alot of kids attend sub standard public schools were they are influenced and surrounded by peers who are not interested in making a go of playing footy at a high standard certainly hurts the area. I know growing up in Sunbury and attending a fairly poor public school and then moving onto a much better school in essendon for VCE was a real opener! I can say without any hesitation that I was shielded from the reality of what it took to commit to footy and get the best out of my self, I really wished I had moved alot earlier.

At the end of the day it's about opportunity and that is something the Jets kids don't get, there will a select few who will make but I'm sure plenty more would with a different region. We want a strong Jets side because that will filter back to the WRFL! Half the reason the EDFL and EFL are so strong is because they have alot of there good TAC players come back to play.

 

[STRONGBOW]

Lets talk about ALBION winning the flag again..

In fact lets talk about how no one from Spotty congratulated the CATS on BF and mentioned how they were beaten by the better side!
All the Snr Spotty players got on here talking it up how the have a new coach and how good he will go bla blah!! none of them failed to mention there loss, especially how cocky they were on here all season!!

hey dick nose when have any of the spotty senior players been on bf being cocky or any spotty player being cocky. may take a fair bit of reading back over past posts, waiting for your response