What’s wrong with the dogs?

[The_Flying_Egg]

There is a reason they are considered one of the worst premiership teams in the history of the game.

They actually aren't very good but the premiership fooled people into thinking they are a decent team. Their most highly paid player is a guy who struggles to get a touch in the VFL, let alone the AFL.

Do you realise how stupid this sounds??

"They actually aren't very good but the premiership fooled people into thinking they are a decent team."

 

[cecil]

There is a reason they are considered one of the worst premiership teams in the history of the game.

They actually aren't very good but the premiership fooled people into thinking they are a decent team. Their most highly paid player is a guy who struggles to get a touch in the VFL, let alone the AFL.

You'd probably find Marcus Bontempelli is our highest paid player and is pretty handy in the AFL. Our highest paid player in 2016 is the rightful Norm Smith medallist

 

[Anja_Nees]

I sometimes wonder if the form after the flag has annoyed opposition supporters more than the Dogs actually winning it, particularly for supporters of clubs that would consider they’ve had better seasons but not won one and it grates against the sore feeling of opportunity missed.

It’s absolutely this, particularly in the case of North. They thought they had a mortgage on the heroic delivery of straight sets exits and honourable prelim appearances (even if they got flogged in the end), only to see the Dogs sweep through and eclipse their 14/15 efforts the following year.

 

[cecil]

It’s absolutely this, particularly in the case of North. They thought they had a mortgage on the heroic delivery of straight sets exits and honourable prelim appearances (even if they got flogged in the end), only to see the Dogs sweep through and eclipse their 14/15 efforts the following year.

I still remember when Bevo started him saying he wanted to make us hated and no longer everyone's second team. Seems he succeeded. The trolls are just annoyed because they can't bring up a flag drought anymore or call us irrelevant.

 

[Damon_3388]

As for non selections we've been playing about 5 afl listed players in some vfl games. So there's not a lot to draw from. We tend to bring players back conservatively so Roughead and Trengove spent a couple of weeks there before coming back, as is Schache, but that's about it.

I think it's moreso people wondering why unproven youngsters are favoured over senior players (age-wise, 25+) like Lin Jong, Fletcher Roberts, Tom Campbell (named in the best in the VFL three weeks straight, but can't get a senior game when you're desperate for a ruckman), Shane Biggs (gone from playing every game in 2016 to on the outer it seems), etc. If it's that the club at this still-relatively-early stage of the season doesn't see an AFL future for those blokes, and they're just going to be playing out time in the ressies to allow the club to "play the kids", then the list in greater trouble depth-wise than first thought.

 

[Anja_Nees]

I think it's moreso people wondering why unproven youngsters are favoured over senior players (age-wise, 25+) like Lin Jong, Fletcher Roberts, Tom Campbell (named in the best in the VFL three weeks straight, but can't get a senior game when you're desperate for a ruckman), Shane Biggs (gone from playing every game in 2016 to on the outer it seems), etc. If it's that the club at this still-relatively-early stage of the season doesn't see an AFL future for those blokes, and they're just going to be playing out time in the ressies to allow the club to "play the kids", then the list in greater trouble depth-wise than first thought.

Jong was given a pretty good go and to be fair is coming back from an ACL so will no doubt get further opportunities. His skill level was poor in his games.

Campbell gets a hand to it in the middle but cannot get around the ground quickly enough or apply pressure. Roberts can be ok as a stopper but offers nothing offensively.

Biggs is hopelessly out of form and can’t hit a target.

I think Bevo would love the above players to start doing what he asks but our problem is not endeavour, it’s execution, and none of the above offer any improvement there.

 

[MowShow]

The fact that each week they field 15+ players who would be considered fringe players and battling for games each week if at other clubs might have something to do with it. Once you get past their top couple of players, the next few would be outside the top 10 at most decent teams.

Not a good list. Should be very, very happy that they somehow managed to get their hands on a flag with this current crop. One of the great overachievements.

 

[Damon_3388]

The fact that each week they field 15+ players who would be considered fringe players and battling for games each week if at other clubs might have something to do with it. Once you get past their top couple of players, the next few would be outside the top 10 at most decent teams.

Not a good list. Should be very, very happy that they somehow managed to get their hands on a flag with this current crop. One of the great overachievements.

It's a bit misleading and lazy to present it like that.

From the 22 that played in the 2016 GF, three aren't on their list anymore (Matthew Boyd, Joel Hamling, Jake Stringer), and two others (Dale Morris, Liam Picken) are yet to play a match in 2018. Another six (Tom Boyd, Tory Dickson, Shane Biggs, Jordan Roughead, Fletcher Roberts, Tom Liberatore) have played 5 or less senior games so far this year, through either form or injury. That's literally half the Premirship side the Dogs haven't got the full value from right off the bat.

It's not like they're going out there with the majority of the premiership side, fit and playing the same positions, and just losing or playing half-arsed. In fact, given it was such an all-in collective effort to win the flag, not being able to keep the same side together fit and in-form is probably their main undoing.

 

[cecil]

I think it's moreso people wondering why unproven youngsters are favoured over senior players (age-wise, 25+) like Lin Jong, Fletcher Roberts, Tom Campbell (named in the best in the VFL three weeks straight, but can't get a senior game when you're desperate for a ruckman), Shane Biggs (gone from playing every game in 2016 to on the outer it seems), etc. If it's that the club at this still-relatively-early stage of the season doesn't see an AFL future for those blokes, and they're just going to be playing out time in the ressies to allow the club to "play the kids", then the list in greater trouble depth-wise than first thought.

Jong has played most of the year in the seniors. Campbell hasn't played a game, but we've played either English or Boyd every game, and they have his covered. We tried to move him off the list last year but a deal with Brisbane didn't eventuate. We are actuslly extremely well stocked for KPD and that's why Roberts hasn't got a game, because Trengove and Cordy are ahead of him and Naughton came out of nowhere. Biggs is the one guy who could come in, but his form has fallen off a cliff

 

[TW Sherrin]

the experienced players have all fallen off a cliff
they literally should all be playing VFL except suckling.

There have been a few baffling positon moves. Eg Wood playing forward.

 

[Adz]

Players like Honeychurch who ate into their 4th year still play like rookies. The development since Macca left has been awful.

 

[MowShow]

It's a bit misleading and lazy to present it like that.

From the 22 that played in the 2016 GF, three aren't on their list anymore (Matthew Boyd, Joel Hamling, Jake Stringer), and two others (Dale Morris, Liam Picken) are yet to play a match in 2018. Another six (Tom Boyd, Tory Dickson, Shane Biggs, Jordan Roughead, Fletcher Roberts, Tom Liberatore) have played 5 or less senior games so far this year, through either form or injury. That's literally half the Premirship side the Dogs haven't got the full value from right off the bat.

It's not like they're going out there with the majority of the premiership side, fit and playing the same positions, and just losing or playing half-arsed. In fact, given it was such an all-in collective effort to win the flag, not being able to keep the same side together fit and in-form is probably their main undoing.

You are not wrong.

However everything you have said just adds to the problem/reasons they've overachieved. That's a huge chunk of their premiership side and looking through the names, there really isn't that much quality. Again, most of those names (a couple aside) would be battling to get games in a decent side.

 

[cecil]

You are not wrong.

However everything you have said just adds to the problem/reasons they've overachieved. That's a huge chunk of their premiership side and looking through the names, there really isn't that much quality. Again, most of those names (a couple aside) would be battling to get games in a decent side.

Biggs, Roberts and Roughead? Every premiership team has guys like that. Matt Spangher, Nick Davis, Matt Suckling, Taylor Dureau, Leigh Brown etc etc.

 

[MowShow]

Biggs, Roberts and Roughead? Every premiership team has guys like that. Matt Spangher, Nick Davis, Matt Suckling, Taylor Dureau, Leigh Brown etc etc.

That's fine, and even required at times when there's 3-5 of those guys. This is a case of 15 playing in the same side at any one point in time.

 

[Damon_3388]

That's fine, and even required at times when there's 3-5 of those guys. This is a case of 15 playing in the same side at any one point in time.

Given it's a team sport, I don't think it should be a knock on them that they were able to win as a unit without a perceived high level of individual talent.

 

[MowShow]

Given it's a team sport, I don't think it should be a knock on them that they were able to win as a unit without a perceived high level of individual talent.

It's definitely not a knock on them. They overachieved and should be very, very happy with the heights they reached.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

There have been a few baffling positon moves. Eg Wood playing forward.

Woods form has completely dropped off the last year. If he wasn't captain I think he would have been dropped at times

 

[Back One Out]

2016 Premiership side.

Johannisen Hamling Boyd
Roberts* Morris Wood
Hunter Bontempelli Picken
Dunkley Cordy Stringer
Dickson Boyd Smith
Roughead Dahlhaus Liberatore
Macrae McLean Biggs* Daniel

Bolded are either gone or been out all/most of the year with injuries.
* aren't playing good enough footy to be getting a game.
Cordy has swapped from CHF to CHB.

The guys who have replaced the unavailable players include:
Naughton - 8 games
Richards - 8 games
Lipinski - 6 games
Gowers - 9 games
Williams - 26 games
Dale - 39 games
Webb - 23 games
Honeychurch - 29 games
English - 9 games
Young - 9 games

Plus a few players with experience in Suckling (9 games this year), Trengove (3 games this year), Crozier (5 games this year) and Wallis (7 games this year).

Anyone saying "lul that team won a premiership 18 months ago and now suck" is an idiot. It's not the same team. The team that was has since been decimated by injury and retirements and replaced with guys who are completely inexperienced. The forward line alone, which was notably a patch job of not typical forward players has lost the only two guys who were actual forwards and could reliably kick goals.
Our backline last week didn't have a single player who played there in the premiership year. That's an entire back 6 system gone, and has been in a constant state of being unsettled since the start of 2017.

Yes, some players haven't taken a step up since then, and aren't playing the footy some people expected of them. JJ and Dahlhaus would be the obvious choices, and some would suggest Boyd as well, but he's had his well publicised issues. Dunkley probably hasn't progressed as some would like either.
There are also players like McLean who has massively improved and is a genuine gun, Macrae who has taken an extra step over what he was already producing, Hunter who has turned from purely outside and a bit of a frontrunner to a gut running machine constantly helping out the backline (I think I read someone referring to him as his former seagully self. If anyone thinks that, they simply don't watch him play), and Cordy who has been rock solid since mid last year.

There have been some weird team selections, coupled with some very dubious tactics (over handballing in the wet vs Adelaide the obvious one). Some moves that clearly don't work out, our choice to rotate our assistant coaches which I think has backfired tremendously, as well as the apparent need for every player to have "versatility" such as Wood training to be a forward all pre season only for us to figure out 20 mins into the season that that's a terrible idea, which have all contributed to us not doing as well as we could/should/might be able to do.

Some people have labelled it a rebuild. I think it's getting there, but it's more so through the hand being forced rather than any list management decisions. I don't understand why people choose to simply ignore the massive injury toll to key players that the club has endured the last 3 years.

Watching the same tilted posters still crying from 2016 truly is joyous though, and makes reading these kinds of thread worth it during a tough year. Whether it be emotional scarring from walking past a pub and being spooked by the loud noises, or John Longmire-esque blubbering about umpires, or just an already present hatred being fuelled by us beating you in finals, I hope you select few acknowledge who you are and take pride that you're doing all Bulldogs supporters a great service. Wear that badge with honour, friends.

Good post.

At least you didn't include Bob Murphy in your list of missing/departed experienced players like some others in this thread.
Murphy played just 3 games in 2016. The Bulldogs won the flag without him

What about Redpath? He also missed out on the flag because of a knee injury. Just 2 games this year. He's no superstar, but he throws his weight around and gives your team some muscle and a marking presence up forward. Has he been injured, or just out of form?

 

[Damon_3388]

It's definitely not a knock on them. They overachieved and should be very, very happy with the heights they reached.

In general, I think people need to get past this idea that a premiership isn't "valid" or "worthy" if it's only a singular win, and not part of a dynasty or series of wins. It's a credit to the evenness and competitiveness of the competition in a way when multiple premierships don't occur with a single club over a few years.

Sometimes following up can just come down to plain good/bad fortune. Hard to see any club having the same results after winning a flag if injuries hit, players leave, form dips massively, etc. A big part of the reason why Richmond have been able to maintain so far this year is that they still have all 22 premiership players on the list, and have consistently had the shortest injury/suspension list in the league so far this season too, and no long-term injuries to key senior players.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Good post.

At least you didn't include Bob Murphy in your list of missing/departed experienced players like some others in this thread.
Murphy played just 3 games in 2016. The Bulldogs won the flag without him

What about Redpath? He also missed out on the flag because of a knee injury. Just 2 games this year. He's no superstar, but he throws his weight around and gives your team some muscle and a marking presence up forward. Has he been injured, or just out of form?

Missed the first two through suspension. Came in and got a 12 week knee injury.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Players like Honeychurch who ate into their 4th year still play like rookies. The development since Macca left has been awful.

Lol a quarter of the premiership side were drafted after McCartney left. Meanwhile Wood and Bont became AA post McCartney with Macrae seemingly about to follow.

The Honeychurch point is like saying ‘Matthew Lokan never kicked on so Malthouse was bad at developing players.’ He’s just an poor player getting a game because of injuries.

 

[cecil]

That's fine, and even required at times when there's 3-5 of those guys. This is a case of 15 playing in the same side at any one point in time.

You think 15 in the premiership side were like that? Who?

J Johannisen - Good player, verging on star
J Hamling - Solid for Freo
M Boyd- Multiple AA, former club captain
S Biggs - Fringe
D Morris - One of the best defenders of the last decade
E Wood - Club captain, AA
L Hunter - has gone from a good player to top 5 for us this year
M Bontempelli - star being played as a Key Forward out of neccessity this year
L Picken- injured the whole year, but definitely not fringe
J Macrae - form player in the league
Z Cordy - has grown to be our best defender at only 21 or so
J Stringer - traded
T Dickson - 50 goal/yr forward, but injured
T Boyd - I would say most non dogs fans think he is fringe, but is highly rated by many of us. Not many rucks can avg a goal a game and 10-15 touches.
C Smith- Injuries probably cause him to be fringe, injured again
J Roughead - Fringe
L Dahlhaus - Would be in every teams 22
T Liberatore- a gun, but injured
T McLean - taken his game to new levels, gun
F Roberts - Fringe
J Dunkley- Fringe, but 3rd year player
C Daniel - probably just above fringe

 

[momentbymoment]

If anyone has any doubt that ump bias makes a difference, check out the Dogs trajectory over the last 5 years.

 

[ManOfClay]

If anyone has any doubt that ump bias makes a difference, check out the Dogs trajectory over the last 5 years.

Nothing will get you 2016

 

[cecil]

If anyone has any doubt that ump bias makes a difference, check out the Dogs.

something, something, cola. Am I doing it right? A team kicks 4 goals across 3 quarters in the grand final and thinks it's the umpires fault they lost....