News what an embarrassment- Robert walls

[Sin City]

You are full of shit.


5 players that 'laid the foundation for thier premiership's. Out of 45 players recruited in those 5 years, the majority of whom were complete hacks.

I took the liberty of itallicising the genuine players for you in case you got confused with such AFL Legends as John Klug, Paul Spargo and Andrew Gowling.

Nicely done

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

Nothing is wrong with Egan.

He was a gun that had his career cut short by injuries and I've never said any differently.

He was, however, taken with pick 62 in the draft.

I remember having conversations with MCB (aka JBLUES) through 2006 and 2007 where he rued Carlton overlooking Egan with pick 9 in favour of Russell.

Don't even think about telling me that you agree with him.

Sorry mate didn't realize he was that late a pick. Guess a lot of clubs stuffed up.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I realise that an engine and hard body is built over years not one preseason. But the point you missed here is there is no reason whatsoverer this can't be fast tracked by giving specific programs to specific players to give them as much chance to succeed in that position. If your attitude is it takes 7 years to accomplish then that is a negative mindset and gets us nowhere. So rather than a generic thought that it takes years to accomplish , i would rather have the thought of what can we do to make it 4 years or less. Nothing is impossible, just requires some lateral thinkers and new programs set in place and not lemmings like yourself that can't think outside the box.

One example of fast tracking is to get all of Carltons sons on a program from a young age. obviously more generic when they are young and more specific when they realise what kind of player he suits.

Many probably think this is a retaliatory post to the lemming bake. And as stinging as that was, they would be mistaken.

No this retort is to encourage your "lateral" thinking. Why start with the sons of Carlton, why not an in womb program, of course very very generic, then we can get more specific after birth, then even more specific once we know what kind of player he suits, to use your words.

Better yet, and this is not only out of the box, its out of the store the box was bought in, how about a current player sperm training program. You can never get too far out of that box you know. I mean why wait? Lets get started today.

Brilliant group of Nobel laureates we have here, last week it was the new breed of super human (footballus supermanus?) that self heals during the intervals and now this, the early development club for toddlers and tweens.

For the serious posters here, I acknowledge that a faster track to success is what all 16 clubs are looking for, but most also acknowledge that in some things there are no short cuts, 100 years of football development have taught clubs a thing or 2. But hey who am I to rain on your parade 7

 

[Malifice]

Nicely done

I could add the following 15 premiership players (from the 22 that played off in the 2001 flag) that were not recruited in the 5 years from 1991-1995:

Johnathon Brown, Allistar Lynch, Simon Black, Luke Power, Martin Pike, Shaun Hart (Norm smith), Brad Scott, Marcus Ashcroft, Christopher Johnson, Mal Michael, Beau Mcdonald, Clark Keating, Tim Notting, Robert Copeland.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I could add the following 15 premiership players (from the 22 that played off in the 2001 flag) that were not recruited in the 5 years from 1991-1995:

Johnathon Brown, Allistar Lynch, Simon Black, Luke Power, Martin Pike, Shaun Hart (Norm smith), Brad Scott, Marcus Ashcroft, Christopher Johnson, Mal Michael, Beau Mcdonald, Clark Keating, Tim Notting, Robert Copeland.

Apologies for crossing threads on this and going off topic. But;

Mal, this is what I dont get, I am neither pissing in your pocket or trying to pick a fight, but how is it that you can post such a brilliantly constructed argument like this post and your post previous, a slam dunk rebuttal of the other posters claims, and then on the same day claim you would be mighty angry if WH does not take player X if he falls to our first pick 4 months from now?

You have done the research for this rebuttal, and made your point brilliantly and yet you dont allow for WH doing his research (much much more than you could possibly know) about the potential flaws or strengths of whoever he ends up selecting or not. How do you not allow for that by being annoyed in advance if he makes a different call to you based on his research and how does that sit with your obvious understanding of building a case?

Sorry Mal, saw your reply to my post in the other thread and have answered there, I should not have crossed threads, sorry guys.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

I could add the following 15 premiership players (from the 22 that played off in the 2001 flag) that were not recruited in the 5 years from 1991-1995:

Johnathon Brown, Allistar Lynch, Simon Black, Luke Power, Martin Pike, Shaun Hart (Norm smith), Brad Scott, Marcus Ashcroft, Christopher Johnson, Mal Michael, Beau Mcdonald, Clark Keating, Tim Notting, Robert Copeland.

Think he was just trying to defend Walls' credibility without actually doing any research.

I wouldn't say he's FULL of shit though, you've gotta remember Walls is a legend of our club and well remembered/respected by a lot of supporters so it's only natural that he will be defended.

 

[pgm87]

1993 Pre and Midseason Draft:
Brendon Mcormack
Martin Heffernan
Adrian Fletcher
Craig MCrae
Darren Mead
Julien Waite
John Klug
Julian Burton
Danny Craven
Damien Burke
Damien Ryan

thats 6...

 

[elgranto]

truth is what would Robert Walls know about recruiting? When he was at Carlton who did he get? the best tallent from around the country was bought before the draft and salary caps started. anyone would have been able to see that the likes of sticks (decision before walls as well), bradley, doratich, motley etc were great pick ups.

yes he had some great acheivements at our great club, but as a player he had plenty of quality around him and as a coach he was given the best players.

maybe it could be said that he is a great due to fortunate circumstances.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Apologies for crossing threads on this and going off topic. But;

Mal, this is what I dont get, I am neither pissing in your pocket or trying to pick a fight, but how is it that you can post such a brilliantly constructed argument like this post and your post previous, a slam dunk rebuttal of the other posters claims, and then on the same day claim you would be mighty angry if WH does not take player X if he falls to our first pick 4 months from now?

You have done the research for this rebuttal, and made your point brilliantly and yet you dont allow for WH doing his research (much much more than you could possibly know) about the potential flaws or strengths of whoever he ends up selecting or not. How do you not allow for that by being annoyed in advance if he makes a different call to you based on his research and how does that sit with your obvious understanding of building a case?

Sorry Mal, saw your reply to my post in the other thread and have answered there, I should not have crossed threads, sorry guys.

Because he's not a sheep like you to go and follow what the other posters are saying. Plus, the point he made in this thread was completely unrelated to what he said in the other thread.

If anything, he just highlighted how wrong recruiters can get it. Take note.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Because he's not a sheep like you to go and follow what the other posters are saying. Plus, the point he made in this thread was completely unrelated to what he said in the other thread.

If anything, he just highlighted how wrong recruiters can get it. Take note.

And how right BF posters get it. Hows that rectal problem you have going for ya?

 

[Stig O'Hara]

We have players playing some poor football right now, individually and collectively. That is clear.
The exact reason for this I may only speculate on from this distance, but I'd venture to say that some would have a much better inkling than me.

I am not disappointed with our recruiting.
I have been disappointed with our coaching from time to time, but I don't mind taking a step back to go forward either.
I am though largely disappointed for our team for the past two months, with wildly sub-standard performances taking into account all varying factors (i.e. youth, lack of key forwards etc.)
Simply put: As a unit, we are not giving it our best shot.
A backline that last year looked on the brink of being tight and tough has dropped well off the pace.
Our mids don't seem to know which way to run right now, and to be fair our forwards are learning on the run.

Right now fingers are being pointed all over the shop and every man and his dog are prepared to put their slant on our situation, yet most don't really have a clue, including myself.....

This

 

[Hollow Knight]

Pretty carefully timed article by Wallsy.

Hates Essendon as much as anyone, doing all he can to fire you up.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

And how right BF posters get it. Hows that rectal problem you have going for ya?

Look up the meaning of figuratively. You are figuratively a pain in the arse not literally.

As for the BF posters, are you saying that Splendini is full of it when he posts his phantom draft? Careful, you might get yourself into the bad books and we all know you don't wanna do that now because you like to role with the pack.

I actually wonder if you even have an opinion, or just follow what the majority of posters are saying all the time.

 

[Blu_Outlaw]

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

Nothing is wrong with Egan.

He was a gun that had his career cut short by injuries and I've never said any differently.

He was, however, taken with pick 62 in the draft.

I remember having conversations with MCB (aka JBLUES) through 2006 and 2007 where he rued Carlton overlooking Egan with pick 9 in favour of Russell.

Don't even think about telling me that you agree with him.

If that is the case I say sack WH and give JBLUES aka MCB the job.

 

[Silvagnis]

Pretty carefully timed article by Wallsy.

Hates Essendon as much as anyone, doing all he can to fire you up.

I believe the great man supported Essendon growing up...

Walls would have hated Sheedy's Essendon because he came from Richmond who were gutless cowards.

Balme smashed Southby in a GF and broke his jaw in two places.

Heard Balme was going for Vin Waite who used to belt them and run away, but Southby was in the vicinity.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I've just read the article and sorry to have missed the fireworks here over the past couple of hours.

Some of what Walls has to say has some merit I guess, but plenty is just reactionary tripe expected from an impetuous juvenile.

We have players playing some poor football right now, individually and collectively. That is clear.
The exact reason for this I may only speculate on from this distance, but I'd venture to say that some would have a much better inkling than me.

I am not disappointed with our recruiting.
I have been disappointed with our coaching from time to time, but I don't mind taking a step back to go forward either.
I am though largely disappointed for our team for the past two months, with wildly sub-standard performances taking into account all varying factors (i.e. youth, lack of key forwards etc.)
Simply put: As a unit, we are not giving it our best shot.
A backline that last year looked on the brink of being tight and tough has dropped well off the pace.
Our mids don't seem to know which way to run right now, and to be fair our forwards are learning on the run.

Right now fingers are being pointed all over the shop and every man and his dog are prepared to put their slant on our situation, yet most don't really have a clue, including myself.

All these woes may turn into dust tonight and I hope they do, but if for whatever reason there are underlying issues getting in the way of our team, they would need immediate addressing and I for one would not expect anything less from the CFC.

I concur with most of your post. A reasoned and balanced post.

Whilst it is hard to watch at the time I am not terribly worried about short bursts of form (either good nor bad but obviously bad is harder to watch) in years before we are set as genuine contenders. Good runs can do as much damage as poor ones, can lead to hubris and poor work habits and I think we have witnessed a little of that at times this year. But both poor and good form bursts are all part of the learning cycle and if you study the path most sustained successful teams have taken there is a fair serving of both.

This story will play out over about 100 rounds of footy so one isolated patch of poor form over 7 weeks is of no real concern. If we go without a win to the middle of next season then it is more than an isolated period but lets wait and see. I have no doubt that we have issues, but who realistically thought we would not. I am also convinced that we have to have these form bursts to learn what needs to be learned and we have to go through the process to get the minds and bodies to where they need to be to be a genuine and prolonged contender.

Good post though.

 

[ratten7]

Many probably think this is a retaliatory post to the lemming bake. And as stinging as that was, they would be mistaken.

No this retort is to encourage your "lateral" thinking. Why start with the sons of Carlton, why not an in womb program, of course very very generic, then we can get more specific after birth, then even more specific once we know what kind of player he suits, to use your words.

Better yet, and this is not only out of the box, its out of the store the box was bought in, how about a current player sperm training program. You can never get too far out of that box you know. I mean why wait? Lets get started today.

Brilliant group of Nobel laureates we have here, last week it was the new breed of super human (footballus supermanus?) that self heals during the intervals and now this, the early development club for toddlers and tweens.

For the serious posters here, I acknowledge that a faster track to success is what all 16 clubs are looking for, but most also acknowledge that in some things there are no short cuts, 100 years of football development have taught clubs a thing or 2. But hey who am I to rain on your parade 7

If you don't see the vision of AFL teams helping players become the best they can so they possibly have an advantage over the next person knowing that you can pick him when he's 17/18 then you are blind. One thing i would make sure is he is ambidextrous, can kick and handbal bothe feet and hands. that can be taught at an early age and it already gives you an advantage.

The world ,people, technology etc.. is constantly evolving, what was pertinent in the last 100 years isn't necessarily relevant today.I am not saying dismiss it by any means, but don't take it as gospel either.

All you have to do is compare the last few years first year players to 20 years ago and you will see they are much better prepared now than they were then. If anything the last 100 years of footbal has taught us that we have a long way to go in terms of evolution of what the person is capable of.

Also there is no law or reason why a second ,3rd year player can't have positve and consistant impact in games ,I am sure there are many examples of this. Open your eyes son. Hopefully carlton don't hire people with your limited mindset and that can't be done attitude.

By the way,I am being dead serious

 

[Go_Blues!]

I concur with most of your post. A reasoned and balanced post.

Whilst it is hard to watch at the time I am not terribly worried about short bursts of form (either good nor bad but obviously bad is harder to watch) in years before we are set as genuine contenders. Good runs can do as much damage as poor ones, can lead to hubris and poor work habits and I think we have witnessed a little of that at times this year. But both poor and good form bursts are all part of the learning cycle and if you study the path most sustained successful teams have taken there is a fair serving of both.

This story will play out over about 100 rounds of footy so one isolated patch of poor form over 7 weeks is of no real concern. If we go without a win to the middle of next season then it is more than an isolated period but lets wait and see. I have no doubt that we have issues, but who realistically thought we would not. I am also convinced that we have to have these form bursts to learn what needs to be learned and we have to go through the process to get the minds and bodies to where they need to be to be a genuine and prolonged contender.

Good post though.

I agree with this.....if the cycle of footy is, as it seems to be, measured in many years, we can't possibly make any sort of judgement over 6 weeks of good or bad performances.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Look up the meaning of figuratively. You are figuratively a pain in the arse not literally.

As for the BF posters, are you saying that Splendini is full of it when he posts his phantom draft? Careful, you might get yourself into the bad books and we all know you don't wanna do that now because you like to role with the pack.

I actually wonder if you even have an opinion, or just follow what the majority of posters are saying all the time.

You should figuratively get that derrière looked at, because you are literally speaking out of it.

Like I care what you or any other poster thinks of me. I dont roll with anyone here, in fact I rarely remember who I agreed with yesterday and who I am arguing with today. I just say what I think.

I will tell you who you will rarely if ever see me argue with, the club. If you took every poster here, including Splendini, accumulated knowledge of footy and weighed it (figuratively speaking), Ratts would still have forgotten more than the entire collective wisdom here literally.

So I welcome Splendinis phantom drafts and wait in anticipation of it, but the anticipation pales next to that reserved for draft day to hear what WH and the team actually do, and in their collective wisdom I trust, because the alternative, you bunch of tossers, is just a joke, Spendini or no Splendini.

 

[JBLUES]

You are full of shit.

Brisbane Recruiting 1991-1995:

1991 pre draft trades:
Colin Alexander (5)
Russell Jeffrey (8)
Rod Owen (9)
Brendon Retzlaff (15)

1991 Draft:
Pick 1 John Hutton (18)
Pick 14 Fabian Francis (22)
Pick 27 Terry Board (0)
Pick 65 Heath Sheppard (4)
Pick 76 Matt Rendell (13)

1992 pre draft rades:
Dion Scott
Paul Pios
Paul Spargo

1992 Draft:
Pick 2 Nathan Chapman
Pick 4 Justin Leppitsh
Pick 51 Adam Williamson
Pick 66 Aaron Lord

1993 Pre and Midseason Draft:
Brendon Mcormack
Martin Heffernan
Adrian Fletcher
Craig MCrae
Darren Mead
Julien Waite
John Klug
Julian Burton
Danny Craven
Damien Burke
Damien Ryan

1993 ND:
Pick 2 Nigel Lappin
Pick 12 Chris Scott
Pick 21 Shane Hodges
Pick 45 Trent Bartlett
Pick 64 Shane Hamilton

1993 PSD:
Andrew Bews
Craig Lambert

1994 Zone selection:
Jason Akermanis (zone selection)

1994 Draft:
Gerard Jess
Michael Agnello
Michael Murphy

1994 PSD:
Ross Lyon
Shannon Corcoran

1995 Draft:
Pick 12 Andrew Gowling
Pick 28 Nicholas Trask
Pick 42 Troy Johnson
Pick 56 Daniel Bradshaw

5 players that 'laid the foundation for thier premiership's. Out of 45 players recruited in those 5 years, the majority of whom were complete hacks.

I took the liberty of itallicising the genuine players for you in case you got confused with such AFL Legends as John Klug, Paul Spargo and Andrew Gowling.

Oh no my mistake.
Lappin, Leppitsch, Chris Scott, Aker, Bradshaw were obviously not that important to the Lions success. You have also omitted Voss who Walls was important in recruiting. (Not to mention Buckley who eventually left to the Magpies.) Look obviously not every player from their premiership teams would have been recruited in the 1991-1995 period. But lots were!
Bradshaw, Lappin, Leppitsch, Scott, Aker and Voss were 6 key players in their premiership treble. Not to mention walls brought the lions from the laughing stock of the competition to the finals in that period, no mean feat, and they more than any other team challenged us in September 95 before making a prelim the year after.

Look I realize this doesn't compare to Splendini's outstanding record of making the trek to TAC games each week but surely it deserves a bit of acknowledgement.

 

[40yearBLUE]

If you don't see the vision of AFL teams helping players become the best they can so they possibly have an advantage over the next person knowing that you can pick him when he's 17/18 then you are blind. One thing i would make sure is he is ambidextrous, can kick and handbal bothe feet and hands. that can be taught at an early age and it already gives you an advantage.

The world ,people, technology etc.. is constantly evolving, what was pertinent in the last 100 years isn't necessarily relevant today.I am not saying dismiss it by any means, but don't take it as gospel either.

All you have to do is compare the last few years first year players to 20 years ago and you will see they are much better prepared now than they were then. If anything the last 100 years of footbal has taught us that we have a long way to go in terms of evolution of what the person is capable of.

Also there is no law or reason why a second ,3rd year player can't have positve and consistant impact in games ,I am sure there are many examples of this. Open your eyes son. Hopefully carlton don't hire people with your limited mindset and that can't be done attitude.

By the way,I am being dead serious

I can tell. You said you were so you must be.

Look I am not saying anything can or cannot be done, despite my sarcastic and tongue in cheek neo natal theory of player development. What I am saying is sometimes there are no short cuts. We employ teams of specialists to look for them, but sometimes, and I know it is a cliche, sometimes there is a process that must be gone through. By all means who wouldnt want a faster track to success, but my point is if it cant be found (by anyone not just our staff) lets not get carried away by the poor results in some of the cycles of the process, they are part of the process. They are unpleasant yes but they are part of what most if not all successfully built teams go through. Be patient grasshopper.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Oh no my mistake.
Lappin, Leppitsch, Chris Scott, Aker, Bradshaw were obviously not that important to the Lions success. You have also omitted Voss who Walls was important in recruiting. (Not to mention Buckley who eventually left to the Magpies.) Look obviously not every player from their premiership teams would have been recruited in the 1991-1995 period. But lots were!
Bradshaw, Lappin, Leppitsch, Scott, Aker and Voss were 6 key players in their premiership treble. Not to mention walls brought the lions from the laughing stock of the competition to the finals in that period, no mean feat, and they more than any other team challenged us in September 95 before making a prelim the year after.

Look I realize this doesn't compare to Splendini's outstanding record of making the trek to TAC games each week but surely it deserves a bit of acknowledgement.

Most clubs that dont have super long term coaches have players recruited under the previous coach, so what. It does not make your point. It just is. And in case you hadnt noticed, the entire rules system with regard to drafts and salary caps is designed to churn the clubs around, top to bottom and bottom to top. It is designed that way, so yes, its true that Walls was the coach that took them from bottom to about 8th but the system did a lot of the heavy lifting. If you dont then go the rest of the way you are no better than a Wallets or a Frawley......they had perennial bottom dwellers move up to ninth then back down again.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

You should figuratively get that derrière looked at, because you are literally speaking out of it.

No, you don't literally speak on an internet discussion forum and you certainly don't literally speak out of your arse either. Maybe you should look up literally as well.

Like I care what you or any other poster thinks of me. I dont roll with anyone here, in fact I rarely remember who I agreed with yesterday and who I am arguing with today. I just say what I think.

bullshit.

I will tell you who you will rarely if ever see me argue with, the club. If you took every poster here, including Splendini, accumulated knowledge of footy and weighed it (figuratively speaking), Ratts would still have forgotten more than the entire collective wisdom here literally.

We havn't won a premiership in 15 years. I suppose the club isn't to blame for that, especially the salary penalties which hampered us for the most of it.

So I welcome Splendinis phantom drafts and wait in anticipation of it, but the anticipation pales next to that reserved for draft day to hear what WH and the team actually do, and in their collective wisdom I trust, because the alternative, you bunch of tossers, is just a joke, Spendini or no Splendini.

Pinched a nerve have we?

 

[Malifice]

I wouldn't say he's FULL of shit though, you've gotta remember Walls is a legend of our club and well remembered/respected by a lot of supporters so it's only natural that he will be defended.

As a player yes:

Walls would go on to play in three premierships with Carlton – in 1968, 1970 and 1972. He was judged Man of the Match in the 1972 VFL Grand Final when he kicked six goals against arch-rivals Richmond in a masterful display. He played 218 games and scored 367 goals for Carlton.

As a coach, not so much.

He'd know a bit about Coaches getting sacked:

Walls joined Carlton from Fitzroy at the start of the 1986 season in a direct swap with David Parkin. Thanks in part to an influx of interstate recruits including Stephen Kernahan, Craig Bradley and Peter Motley, he had immediate success, taking the side to a Grand Final in 1986 and a premiership in 1987.

The Blues made the finals again in 1988 but by mid-1989 they were struggling and Walls was sacked after the team lost a home match to the lowly Brisbane Bears.

It was revealed in the video "Passion To Play" that in Walls first year as Bears coach in 1991, as disciplinary action Walls authorised his players to don boxing gloves and beat 21 year old teammate Shane Strempel repetitively in the head[1] until he was severely bashed and bloodied after which Strempel quit playing football. Walls' coaching style was criticized about the incident by Kevin Sheedy who has several times questioned his credibility as a football coach.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Walls#cite_note-1

In his last season, 1995, he had been told after Round 15 that with 4 wins and 11 losses for the season, he would not be re-appointed for 1996.

The Richmond Football Club appointed Walls as senior coach for the 1996 season. He was sacked after a 137 point defeat by the Adelaide Crows in Round 17, 1997.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Walls#Brisbane_Bears

We sacked him, Richmond sacked him and even the Bears sacked him.

 

[JBLUES]

Most clubs that dont have super long term coaches have players recruited under the previous coach, so what. It does not make your point. It just is. And in case you hadnt noticed, the entire rules system with regard to drafts and salary caps is designed to churn the clubs around, top to bottom and bottom to top. It is designed that way, so yes, its true that Walls was the coach that took them from bottom to about 8th but the system did a lot of the heavy lifting. If you dont then go the rest of the way you are no better than a Wallets or a Frawley......they had perennial bottom dwellers move up to ninth then back down again.

All fair enough.
But I'm not trying to prove Walls should be our head recruiter, just that Splendini has no right to say Walls has no credibility when it comes to commenting on recruiting. Walls as a senior coach has had ample experience with the recruiting process both pre draft and with the draft system. When he says our recruiting has been poor, I am happy for Splendini to debate that. What I am not happy for him to do is say "what does Walls know about recruiting, how many TAC cup games does he attend."

My question to you and Splendini is this.
I agree with Walls that our recruiting has been poor.
Please name a couple of picks Carlton have had outside say the top 10 that we have had since 2004 that has really made their mark on the competition. I believe other clubs have had such picks and we haven't.

I'll start off with Adelaide: Bernie Vince and Kurt Tippet