What if the AFL ignores the WADA decision

[blackshadow]

The AFL privately must be pretty pissed off with the time the process is taking (and ASADA are to blame for most of that ) and they may use that as a trigger for future reform.

Absolute bollocks.

The delays can be entirely sheeted home to Essendon. Essendon still cannot say exactly which drugs each player was injected with because they have failed to produce proper records.

 

[tesla1962]

Absolute bollocks.

The delays can be entirely sheeted home to Essendon. Essendon still cannot say exactly which drugs each player was injected with because they have failed to produce proper records.

I gave my reasons for why asada are responsible for most of the delays and wada agree with me. You and I could go round and round all night on this but I will exercise my option not to. Do tell us your wonderful story again about the rope fence and staring james hird down, it's a real cracker.

 

[Slax]

The AFL "3 Strikes" drug policy supported by the AFL and AFLPA has a lot to answer for in helping cover up the use/abuse of drugs in AFL clubs.

Ben Cousins should have been picked up much sooner and helped. Now he's just a train wreck of a man.

The less the AFL listens to the AFLPA the better off the sport will be.

 

[threesixpio]

I gave my reasons for why asada are responsible for most of the delays and wada agree with me. You and I could go round and round all night on this but I will exercise my option not to. Do tell us your wonderful story again about the rope fence and staring james hird down, it's a real cracker.

Do you agree with me that the feeling of delay is exacerbated by the fact that the investigation itself became public? What if we only found out about this from July 2014? And I do mean for the players rather than observers.

That said for summary offences in Vic charges have to be laid within 12 months of the offence. But you catch my drift yeah? A media ban on ASADA, Essendon and the AFL to discuss the investigation would have protected the players from scrutiny.

This may also be connected to the over-arching issue that anti-doping is narrowly focused on positive test cases (which in the main will be very efficient) as opposed to complex circumstancial cases which will understandably take a long time to investigate.

Forgive my ignorance but at what stage did we find out about Lance Armstrong - was it before or after he was served with the equivalent of an IN/SCN?

 

[Slax]

CAS will give all the "Austrian players" 2 years suspensions.

The AFL and ASADA will agree to back date the suspensions to 2012.

Big Footy will go into meltdown until the next big scandal.

Can't back date to 2012. September 2014 is the best that they can do.

 

[tesla1962]

Do you agree with me that the feeling of delay is exacerbated by the fact that the investigation itself became public? What if we only found out about this from July 2014? And I do mean for the players rather than observers.

That said for summary offences in Vic charges have to be laid within 12 months of the offence. But you catch my drift yeah? A media ban on ASADA, Essendon and the AFL to discuss the investigation would have protected the players from scrutiny.

This may also be connected to the over-arching issue that anti-doping is narrowly focused on positive test cases (which in the main will be very efficient) as opposed to complex circumstancial cases which will understandably take a long time to investigate.

Forgive my ignorance but at what stage did we find out about Lance Armstrong - was it before or after he was served with the equivalent of an IN/SCN?

I think you are correct about the public nature of the investigation and the perception of time based on that.

However, many in here confuse the delays with the length of the investigation. EFC and players fully cooperated but must take some responsibility for the length of the investigation if it was related to the state of their record keeping and poor governance.

Outside the length of the investigation there were significant, inexplicable and unnecessary delays due to asada and the aust govt. (WADAs words not mine). These were not EFCs fault.

EFC delayed the investigation due to the first court case but this was their right (so not an inexplicable delay) and as we found out wada themselves went through much angst internally about whether or not the joint investigation was legal so you can hardly blame EFC for testing it, particularly given the empty generic SCNs that immediately preceded the court challenge.

The hird appeal, which may have been pointless, didn't formally delay anything.

 

[davis_756]

I gave my reasons for why asada are responsible for most of the delays and wada agree with me. You and I could go round and round all night on this but I will exercise my option not to. Do tell us your wonderful story again about the rope fence and staring james hird down, it's a real cracker.

Its Essendon's fault, end of story, full stop. Have a nice day sunshine

 

[Proper Gander]

I think you are correct about the public nature of the investigation and the perception of time based on that.

However, many in here confuse the delays with the length of the investigation. EFC and players fully cooperated but must take some responsibility for the length of the investigation if it was related to the state of their record keeping and poor governance.

Outside the length of the investigation there were significant, inexplicable and unnecessary delays (WADAs words not mine). These were not EFCs fault.

They delayed the investigation due to the first court case but this was their right (so not an inexplicable dejay) and as we found out wada themselves weby through much angst internally about whether or not the joint investigation was legal so you can hardly blame EFC for testing it and particularly given the empty generic SCNs.

The hird appeal, which may have been pointless, didn't formally dejay anything.

On the appearance of what was actually produced - agree the investigation went way too long.

 

[Proper Gander]

Its Essendon's fault, end of story, full stop. Have a nice day sunshine

Hello WADA. No? Not WADA?

Enjoy your weekend

 

[threesixpio]

On the appearance of what was actually produced - agree the investigation went way too long.

Maybe the Judge Downes bit was long. For me this was the equivalent of the Sarge authorising a brief. Perhaps went too long. This delay was considered in the reduction of the Cronulla bans which is probably fair. But what other things could have been quicker? Bloody complex case

 

[Proper Gander]

Maybe the Judge Downes bit was long. For me this was the equivalent of the Sarge authorising a brief. Perhaps went too long. This delay was considered in the reduction of the Cronulla bans which is probably fair. But what other things could have been quicker? Bloody complex case

True I guess. ASADA can't execute warrants etc. Australia needs to work out how much they genuinely want what ASADA does, legislate for it and pay for it. Or not. But stapling ASADAs legs together then moaning about the time it takes to hop isn't satisfying anyone. I expect ASADA feel that more strongly then anyone.

 

[threesixpio]

True I guess. ASADA can't execute warrants etc. Australia needs to work out how much they genuinely want what ASADA does, legislate for it and pay for it. Or not. But stapling ASADAs legs together then moaning about the time it takes to hop isn't satisfying anyone. I expect ASADA feel that more strongly then anyone.

It's funny - you hear similar things about Child Protection. You speak to the workers and they tell you that they are completely under resourced.

Anyway this digression reminds me of your slightly philosophical thread a week or so ago about why posters care about THIS issue so much when there are so many other things in the world which suck so much more (like the Child Protection system/s).

 

[threesixpio]

I think you are correct about the public nature of the investigation and the perception of time based on that.

However, many in here confuse the delays with the length of the investigation. EFC and players fully cooperated but must take some responsibility for the length of the investigation if it was related to the state of their record keeping and poor governance.

Outside the length of the investigation there were significant, inexplicable and unnecessary delays due to asada and the aust govt. (WADAs words not mine). These were not EFCs fault.

EFC delayed the investigation due to the first court case but this was their right (so not an inexplicable dejay) and as we found out wada themselves weby through much angst internally about whether or not the joint investigation was legal so you can hardly blame EFC for testing it and particularly given the empty generic SCNs.

The hird appeal, which may have been pointless, didn't formally dejay anything.

But here's the thing about the joint investigation - it was likely the most efficient way of getting the information that they received. Ironic ?

 

[Proper Gander]

It's funny - you hear similar things about Child Protection. You speak to the workers and they tell you that they are completely under resourced.

Anyway this digression reminds me of your slightly philosophical thread a week or so ago about why posters care about THIS issue so much when there are so many other things in the world which suck so much more (like the Child Protection system/s).

Regulation is often underfunded I think. Politicians like the sound bites - law and order, stamp out whatever, but they hate the bottom line. AGIS investigations are astonishing in terms of what they cost compared to observable results. That's before you load on extras like forensic computer imaging (which I bid for constantly and mostly don't get - everyone wants a cheaper way).

 

[davis_756]

And while your there tell us how your great club is travelling, I series linked the biggest loser and it keeps recording the Carlton games... go figure.

As good as Essendon without the drugs, go figure that one chief

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Point well made, plus WA and SA (as people not as football clubs) have a distain for the Vic centric AFL who would be seen as just propping up another cheating vic club.

NSW and QLD people generally hate AFL

small correction people in NSW and QLD don't care about the AFL, which is worse.

 

[Obeanie1]

Government will remove all future funding.

And we are banned from playing AFL at the Olympics.

Actually the International Rules game might be affected as well.

But yes, government funding would be removed and the credibility of the competition would be tarnished. Soccer would be the big winner, just another reason for the 'soccer mums' to direct their sons to play soccer and not AFL.

'Packing up our lego' and not complying to the WADA code is not an very smart option.

 

[blackshadow]

The federal government has a huge stick in their pocket, at the moment the AFL is considered to be a non profit organisation and receives very generous tax breaks...

 

[The_Ru]

The interesting thing here is that the AFL would win in terms of public support if they took on government.

You do not **** with peoples national pastime.

Neither the liberal or the labour party would like to be the party that upsets the AFL because the message would go from the AFL to the clubs to throw their support behind certain parties and we all know there is enough tribalism in footy that the lower echelon of thinking fans would vote for whoever their footy club told them to.

This is why the average footy fan is so angry with Hird and Essendon. It's not WADA or ASADA that have caused this disaster.

Do we really want a free-for-all competition where the club that has the best biochemists wins?

 

[jenny61_99]

The government signed up to the WADA treaty and ratified enshrining it Australian Law. If The AFL step away from WADA, then the government are legally required to cease any funding of the AFL, which would include stadiums, or they could abandon WADA, which requires legislation and a major backlash from communities such as the athletics community.

The NFL gets away with it in the US because they don't receive any government funding anyway.

Not to mention the NFL Is rife with drug cheating. Is that what we want?

 

[onemancyclone]

Not to mention the NFL Is rife with drug cheating. Is that what we want?

We don't, Gill does.

 

[fishardansin]

Govt need AFL for stadiums more than the other way around. It is the fact that big grounds can be filled up a number of times a year that makes them viable. Having stadiums available allows us to host Cricket World Cup, Asian Cup, Common games and other large tournaments each year.

It is the AFL that makes boxing day cricket such a big deal.

 

[Obeanie1]

Govt need AFL for stadiums more than the other way around. It is the fact that big grounds can be filled up a number of times a year that makes them viable. Having stadiums available allows us to host Cricket World Cup, Asian Cup, Common games and other large tournaments each year.

It is the AFL that makes boxing day cricket such a big deal.

Really? I thought it was the cricket!

So the MCG doesn't stand for Melbourne Cricket Ground?

And if I recall it's the MCG Board that dictate / negotiate terms to the AFL.

SO if the AFL go it alone, don't bother with the WADA code, turn their backs on millions of federal government funding they would simply build their own 95,000 capacity stadium in Melbourne to just play AFL games?

All to protect clubs and players who are drug cheats?

Yep, sounds pretty logical to me!

Can't wait for your next 'pearl of wisdom' suggestion.[/QUOTE]

 

[threesixpio]

Govt need AFL for stadiums more than the other way around. It is the fact that big grounds can be filled up a number of times a year that makes them viable. Having stadiums available allows us to host Cricket World Cup, Asian Cup, Common games and other large tournaments each year.

It is the AFL that makes boxing day cricket such a big deal.

You need to fill it up regularly to pay for upkeep etc (I kinda agree in part)

 

[Boston tiger]

What if the CAS come up with the same finding and are damming of WADA etc . Do we give WADA the flick for being arse clowns?