mdavideedee_man64
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- Jun 11, 2019
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- #101
wtf why denmark, thats a country
What size should the AFL be?
- Thread starter R Chee Manning
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What about this set up for the AFL to be up and running by 2026?
Sorry about the length of the post but I think I’ve covered all the existing AFL problems, annoyances and inequalities in one shot.
For 2026 it could be 20 teams playing in the AFL Premier League (Div 1) and AFL Championship (Div 2) comprising 10 teams in each division.
I have added 2 new teams and rebranded 2 existing teams.
Gold Coast Suns have not worked in their current set up and are currently doomed to join the long list of failed Gold Coast sporting franchises. Rename them as the Northern Suns and play their home games across 3 venues at Metricon Stadium, Darwin and Alice Springs. This gives the AFL fans living in Darwin and Alice Springs a home team to barrack for a few times a year, rather than just 2 fly in fly out clubs who promote the game and hold coaching clinics for one week and are never seen otherwise. No need to radically revamp the Guernsey or colours – and the NT along with PNG can become the exclusive recruiting zone of the Northern Suns players.
Rebrand GWS to the Eastern Giants and relocate half of their home games to Canberra. The western suburbs of Sydney are rugby and soccer fans and will only be token passive fans of GWS at best. Canberra has a ready-made AFL fan base just waiting for a team to support and like Darwin and Alice Springs deserves the chance to have a home team to follow.
19th team to join the AFL – Tasmania – no further discussion needed here.
20th team? Has to be either a third Perth or Adelaide team. Both cities have recently built sensational stadiums that host AFL games just once a week for the season. They, like the MCG and Marvel could easily host 2 games a weekend. Perth is the city with the rapidly expanding population growth but a new 3rd team may have trouble attracting fans who are rusted on West Coast or Freo folk. Subiaco are the dominant WAFL team but the WAFL has little profile or support in Perth. Under 19000 attended the 2019 WAFL Grand Final where Subiaco belted South Fremantle by 96 points. Adelaide has an advantage over Perth as the SANFL competition still has some profile and healthier attendances than the WAFL. SANFL teams Norwood and Sturt are neighbouring clubs who offered to merge to join the AFL in the mid-1990s and they remain SANFL powerhouses with healthy memberships. Anecdotally thousands of Crows fans were Norwood and Sturt fans prior to 1991 and if the Crows continue to disappoint their members, then many of them could join “Sturtwood” if the merger was done fairly and not a case of one club swallowing the other. Interesting that the plans to build a hotel attached to Adelaide Oval got approved in seemingly record time – perfect for travelling footy fans to camp in when travelling to Adelaide for AFL games. This gives Adelaide Oval a big advantage over Perth’s stadium. For the purpose of this post let’s say the 20th team into the AFL comp is Sturtwood.
Division One (based on top 10 teams from the 2019 season) – Richmond, Eastern Giants, Geelong, Collingwood, Brisbane, West Coast, Bulldogs, Essendon, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide.
Division Two – Adelaide, North Melb, Fremantle, St Kilda, Sydney, Carlton, Melbourne, Northern Suns, Tasmania, Sturtwood.
For the minor round each team plays 18 games – 9 home and 9 away. Port fans would note that there would be no Showdown against the Crows but would they care seeing their 9 home games would be against Richmond, Giants, Geelong, Collingwood, Brisbane, West Coast, Bulldogs, Essendon and Hawthorn?
Bragging rights would be simply reminding Crows fans “We’re in the big time you’re not…”
West Coast, Eastern Giants and Brisbane fans would also enjoy this scenario.
So the minor round consists of 90 games (18 rounds @ 5 games) for each division = 180 games in total with 10 games a week – hence the AFL could program Thursday night games which could become Div 2 Night and maybe some Friday night double headers featuring Perth night games to commence after an Eastern State game has finished.
In 2019 there were 198 minor round games followed by 9 finals matches – a total of 207 games for the season.
In 2026 the finals would be top 6 for each of the 10 team divisions. That would create 5 finals for each division and 10 finals in all bringing the total number of games for the season to 190. Seventeen games fewer than the current fixture but all irregularities and unfairness with double up games has been removed – each team simply plays everyone else in their division once at home and once away. No more double up games and bonus wins against weak opposition simply because your club resides in the same state as the weak team – think of Sydney/GWS and WC/Freo in the early years and the current Brisbane/Gold Coast situation.
The Finals have the traditional method for a top 6 finals series.
Week 1 – Semi Finals - 3v6 and 4v5
Week 2 – Prelim Finals – 1 v winner of 4/5 and 2 v winner of 3/6
Week 3 – two winners play in Grand Final
Yearly promotion and relegation is easy – the 4 teams that miss the Div 1 finals would be relegated to be replaced by the 4 Preliminary Finalists from Div 2.
No Div 1 teams tanking to improve draft selections – simply if you miss the finals you’re relegated.
The Div 2 Semi Finals between 3/6 and 4/5 would become epics as the 2 winners earn promotion for Div 1.
September in 2026 would be scheduled like this:
September Week 4 – Sat Arvo - Div 1 GF – all us traditionalists remain very happy.
September Week 3 – Fri Night – Div 1 Prelim Final; Sat Arvo – Div 1 Prelim Final; Sat Night – Div 2 GF – the AFL and TV networks get their much wanted night grand final to be played in the home state of the higher ranked team. Sunday would be kept AFL-free for the various state league grand finals.
September Week 2 – Fri Night – Div 1 Semi Final; Sat Arvo – Div 2 PF; Sat Twilight – Div 2 PF; Sat Night – Div 1 Semi Final.
September Week 1– Fri Night – Div 2 Semi Final; Sat Night – Div 2 Semi Final – The AFL keeps the pre finals bye for the Div 1 teams. The focus this weekend is then solely on which 2 Div 2 teams earn promotion to Div 1 for next year.
August Week 4 – Floating Final minor round for both divisions – have all 5 Div 2 games done by Saturday night. Some Div 1 games can play on Sunday seeing that they have the following week off.
Minor round would be 18 games so mid-season split rounds would still exist to keep the players union happy. There would still be time for Port to win another Chinese premiership mid-season.
Pre-season games? Easy – each team plays two games as usual but against teams from the ‘other division’. So states would still get a showdown or local derby of sorts should their two state teams be in different divisions for the upcoming regular season.
Round One of the minor round would be very enticing – no team would have played each other at all in the build up to the season and also no more Richmond/Carlton supposed blockbuster to kick things off. The first game of Round One should be the previous season’s Division Grand Finalists playing on a Friday night in the home state of the reigning premier who can then unfurl their premiership banner and perform all other premiership ceremonies at the perfect time for their fans and the massive TV audience.
Anzac Day at the MCG – time to remove the Essendon/Collingwood ownership. Simply make the MCG Anzac Day game played between the two highest ranked Victorian teams of the previous season – in this example Richmond and Geelong players and fans get the opportunity to enjoy the Anzac Day experience.
The draft would be as normal with the bottom team of div 2 getting the first pick and then work your way up – each round is 20 picks – no trading of future year’s picks allowed – that is one of my personal irritants.
The Brownlow Medal remains as is for Division One – a new medal would be created for the Division Two League – players would be polling votes for the Adam Goodes Medal – this allows the AFL to properly recognise the on and off field achievements of the much-loved dual Brownlow Medalist.
Should I send this to Gill at the AFL?
After all AFLX got born during his reign…
Sorry about the length of the post but I think I’ve covered all the existing AFL problems, annoyances and inequalities in one shot.
For 2026 it could be 20 teams playing in the AFL Premier League (Div 1) and AFL Championship (Div 2) comprising 10 teams in each division.
I have added 2 new teams and rebranded 2 existing teams.
Gold Coast Suns have not worked in their current set up and are currently doomed to join the long list of failed Gold Coast sporting franchises. Rename them as the Northern Suns and play their home games across 3 venues at Metricon Stadium, Darwin and Alice Springs. This gives the AFL fans living in Darwin and Alice Springs a home team to barrack for a few times a year, rather than just 2 fly in fly out clubs who promote the game and hold coaching clinics for one week and are never seen otherwise. No need to radically revamp the Guernsey or colours – and the NT along with PNG can become the exclusive recruiting zone of the Northern Suns players.
Rebrand GWS to the Eastern Giants and relocate half of their home games to Canberra. The western suburbs of Sydney are rugby and soccer fans and will only be token passive fans of GWS at best. Canberra has a ready-made AFL fan base just waiting for a team to support and like Darwin and Alice Springs deserves the chance to have a home team to follow.
19th team to join the AFL – Tasmania – no further discussion needed here.
20th team? Has to be either a third Perth or Adelaide team. Both cities have recently built sensational stadiums that host AFL games just once a week for the season. They, like the MCG and Marvel could easily host 2 games a weekend. Perth is the city with the rapidly expanding population growth but a new 3rd team may have trouble attracting fans who are rusted on West Coast or Freo folk. Subiaco are the dominant WAFL team but the WAFL has little profile or support in Perth. Under 19000 attended the 2019 WAFL Grand Final where Subiaco belted South Fremantle by 96 points. Adelaide has an advantage over Perth as the SANFL competition still has some profile and healthier attendances than the WAFL. SANFL teams Norwood and Sturt are neighbouring clubs who offered to merge to join the AFL in the mid-1990s and they remain SANFL powerhouses with healthy memberships. Anecdotally thousands of Crows fans were Norwood and Sturt fans prior to 1991 and if the Crows continue to disappoint their members, then many of them could join “Sturtwood” if the merger was done fairly and not a case of one club swallowing the other. Interesting that the plans to build a hotel attached to Adelaide Oval got approved in seemingly record time – perfect for travelling footy fans to camp in when travelling to Adelaide for AFL games. This gives Adelaide Oval a big advantage over Perth’s stadium. For the purpose of this post let’s say the 20th team into the AFL comp is Sturtwood.
Division One (based on top 10 teams from the 2019 season) – Richmond, Eastern Giants, Geelong, Collingwood, Brisbane, West Coast, Bulldogs, Essendon, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide.
Division Two – Adelaide, North Melb, Fremantle, St Kilda, Sydney, Carlton, Melbourne, Northern Suns, Tasmania, Sturtwood.
For the minor round each team plays 18 games – 9 home and 9 away. Port fans would note that there would be no Showdown against the Crows but would they care seeing their 9 home games would be against Richmond, Giants, Geelong, Collingwood, Brisbane, West Coast, Bulldogs, Essendon and Hawthorn?
Bragging rights would be simply reminding Crows fans “We’re in the big time you’re not…”
West Coast, Eastern Giants and Brisbane fans would also enjoy this scenario.
So the minor round consists of 90 games (18 rounds @ 5 games) for each division = 180 games in total with 10 games a week – hence the AFL could program Thursday night games which could become Div 2 Night and maybe some Friday night double headers featuring Perth night games to commence after an Eastern State game has finished.
In 2019 there were 198 minor round games followed by 9 finals matches – a total of 207 games for the season.
In 2026 the finals would be top 6 for each of the 10 team divisions. That would create 5 finals for each division and 10 finals in all bringing the total number of games for the season to 190. Seventeen games fewer than the current fixture but all irregularities and unfairness with double up games has been removed – each team simply plays everyone else in their division once at home and once away. No more double up games and bonus wins against weak opposition simply because your club resides in the same state as the weak team – think of Sydney/GWS and WC/Freo in the early years and the current Brisbane/Gold Coast situation.
The Finals have the traditional method for a top 6 finals series.
Week 1 – Semi Finals - 3v6 and 4v5
Week 2 – Prelim Finals – 1 v winner of 4/5 and 2 v winner of 3/6
Week 3 – two winners play in Grand Final
Yearly promotion and relegation is easy – the 4 teams that miss the Div 1 finals would be relegated to be replaced by the 4 Preliminary Finalists from Div 2.
No Div 1 teams tanking to improve draft selections – simply if you miss the finals you’re relegated.
The Div 2 Semi Finals between 3/6 and 4/5 would become epics as the 2 winners earn promotion for Div 1.
September in 2026 would be scheduled like this:
September Week 4 – Sat Arvo - Div 1 GF – all us traditionalists remain very happy.
September Week 3 – Fri Night – Div 1 Prelim Final; Sat Arvo – Div 1 Prelim Final; Sat Night – Div 2 GF – the AFL and TV networks get their much wanted night grand final to be played in the home state of the higher ranked team. Sunday would be kept AFL-free for the various state league grand finals.
September Week 2 – Fri Night – Div 1 Semi Final; Sat Arvo – Div 2 PF; Sat Twilight – Div 2 PF; Sat Night – Div 1 Semi Final.
September Week 1– Fri Night – Div 2 Semi Final; Sat Night – Div 2 Semi Final – The AFL keeps the pre finals bye for the Div 1 teams. The focus this weekend is then solely on which 2 Div 2 teams earn promotion to Div 1 for next year.
August Week 4 – Floating Final minor round for both divisions – have all 5 Div 2 games done by Saturday night. Some Div 1 games can play on Sunday seeing that they have the following week off.
Minor round would be 18 games so mid-season split rounds would still exist to keep the players union happy. There would still be time for Port to win another Chinese premiership mid-season.
Pre-season games? Easy – each team plays two games as usual but against teams from the ‘other division’. So states would still get a showdown or local derby of sorts should their two state teams be in different divisions for the upcoming regular season.
Round One of the minor round would be very enticing – no team would have played each other at all in the build up to the season and also no more Richmond/Carlton supposed blockbuster to kick things off. The first game of Round One should be the previous season’s Division Grand Finalists playing on a Friday night in the home state of the reigning premier who can then unfurl their premiership banner and perform all other premiership ceremonies at the perfect time for their fans and the massive TV audience.
Anzac Day at the MCG – time to remove the Essendon/Collingwood ownership. Simply make the MCG Anzac Day game played between the two highest ranked Victorian teams of the previous season – in this example Richmond and Geelong players and fans get the opportunity to enjoy the Anzac Day experience.
The draft would be as normal with the bottom team of div 2 getting the first pick and then work your way up – each round is 20 picks – no trading of future year’s picks allowed – that is one of my personal irritants.
The Brownlow Medal remains as is for Division One – a new medal would be created for the Division Two League – players would be polling votes for the Adam Goodes Medal – this allows the AFL to properly recognise the on and off field achievements of the much-loved dual Brownlow Medalist.
Should I send this to Gill at the AFL?
After all AFLX got born during his reign…
- Aug 15, 2019
- 773
- 850
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Hull City, Wests Tigers
whilst it's not going to happen, it would create more meaningful matches and a more even draw.
I'd make it only 2 up and 2 down, 40% going up is heaps... maybe 3 go up and down?
And I'd be interested to see how salary cap works, assume D2 is lower, but this would be extremely challenging to manage if a d1 team is relegated and their cap is at 100%
while we're at it lets add an FA cup stlye competition, and the top non affiliated team from VFL, SANFL, WAFL and NEAFL are included
I'd make it only 2 up and 2 down, 40% going up is heaps... maybe 3 go up and down?
And I'd be interested to see how salary cap works, assume D2 is lower, but this would be extremely challenging to manage if a d1 team is relegated and their cap is at 100%
while we're at it lets add an FA cup stlye competition, and the top non affiliated team from VFL, SANFL, WAFL and NEAFL are included
And Tasmania isn't a single population centre. Once you get regular games people won't travel after the novelty wears off. Plus the sponsorship, Tasmania simply doesn't have an economy the equal of nay mojr centre (even Adelaide), despite being a better performer in more recent years as the arse fell out of the booming economies and Tas basically held steady because it hadn't had those booms. Who is going to spend $100k+ on a corporate box with no decision makers to schmooze up to for large sales and contracts?
And **** knows what happens in the north of the state once its inevitably decided all finals will be in Hobart.
I went 4 up and down mainly to avoid the EPL situation of the same clubs remaining at the top. This way if you miss the Div 1 finals you're down to Div 2 - no tanking. Salary cap the same for all 20 teams - if anything you could have the D2 teams cap slightly higher than D1. FA Cup may work but the huge gap in ability between the AFL and State League teams would be a problem.
That's a nice idea, but not really going to work in our game. The gap between the top tier of full professionals and the second tier, where maybe one or two SANFL players are on half an AFL rookie salary, is too vast. And "park the bus and hope to score one on the counter" isn't really viable.
If we still had a pre-season comp, adding rep teams from those leagues might add a bit of flavour (and a way to scout for mature age rookies for the following year) but not individuals clubs. SANFL v St Kilda or WAFL v Gold Coast might be competitive games, particularly if the AFL club rested some players; Subiaco v Gold Coast would not.
- Aug 15, 2019
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agree the gap right now is too big, but if we're creating a 2 tiered competition in this hypothetical world then perhaps it becomes more feasible
In a perfect world our national Australian Rules football comp would be a 12 team comp.
But how it came about was always going to make that impossible.
But under no scenario can I see there being more than 14 teams in the comp in three or four decades, the Salary cap will eventually go or get to a point where some clubs simply can't maintain being in it. Player greed will become more and more as the years and decades pass and TV rights and the AFL won't be able to keep up with what they want.
But how it came about was always going to make that impossible.
But under no scenario can I see there being more than 14 teams in the comp in three or four decades, the Salary cap will eventually go or get to a point where some clubs simply can't maintain being in it. Player greed will become more and more as the years and decades pass and TV rights and the AFL won't be able to keep up with what they want.
The Foxtel Cup was devised a few years ago to give the State League teams some national profile but sadly the leading SANFL clubs behaved very arrogantly and refused to participate in it. So there will be no more national chances for the State League clubs, no more genuine State of Origin matches except charity SOO and so I think the best direction is to add 2 more teams, split the 20 teams into 2 divisions as I pasted previously and in the future decades add more teams 2 at a time via Division 2 - so we may have 22 teams (11 per division by 2035) 24 teams (12 per division by 2050) and so on.
Two divisions would be the death knell of any relegated club, without the AFL massively increasing the unequal payments. How a second divsion would work with salary caps is another big problem. If the cap is close to that of the top division, then those payments may need to be in the $30m realm at times. If not, relegated clubs will have to sack a lot of players at the end of the year - who will then mostly end up at newly promoted clubs that get relegated again because they have the same lack of plauyer base.
Then there's the draft. Will the #1 draft pick be goping into the second division?
And I can't see the AFL allowing Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast; maybe Richmond; to drop to the second division.
I could eventually see a 22 team, 21 round, competition. But not promotion/relegation without other huge changes to the structure.
#1 draft pick would be going to team ranked #20 - the wooden spooners of div 2 and then work your way up the div 2 ladder with subsequent draft picks. Salary cap for all 20 teams across the 2 divisions would be as it is now.
The EPL would have to allow Man Utd or Liverpool to get relegated should they ever stumble badly in one season - plenty of famous English soccer clubs have been relegated over the past century. The look on Eddie Maguire's face if Collingwood got relegated one year would be priceless !
telsor
Hall of Famer
How do you think the AFL's billion dollar investment in NSW & QLD would go if both the clubs in either (let along both) states were in Div 2?
Support, sponsors, players...bye bye.
Maybe if the word "Division" is replaced by the word "Conference" and 8 teams each year will be "swapped" from one Conference to the other Conference rather than 4 teams being promoted and 4 teams being relegated. A lot of media and high ranking AFL names are in love with a Conference set up. It's all important as to what words are used in the AFL spin...
telsor
Hall of Famer
Media and high ranking AFL types love it...Why do you think they don't do it?
Could it be something to do with beaing aware of the consequences?
You can call it what you want, but people (and sponsors, and TV execs) aren't stupid. They'll recognise a 2nd division for what it is.
The AFL aren't stupid but they (like the major political parties) treat the fans (alias voters) as if they were stupid. The AFL tut-tuts about problem gambling whilst announcing they have just entered a new five year partnership deal with BetEasy as their official wagering partner. An "Official" wagering partner!?! "Don't you go losing your money betting on AFL games with company XYZ - you're meant to be losing your money betting on AFL games with our official wagering partner."
Anyway back to my previous suggestion - I have 20 teams playing in 2 Conferences with 8 teams swapping Conferences after each season with all 10 games each week receiving full tv and media coverage, with a night grand final (away from the MCG) occurring every year. Throw in the official AFL recognition of Adam Goodes and I think I have ticked every PC Box for the AFL and the media.
Instead of moving clubs back and forth in conferences, just have two conferences a vic already has 10 and a non vic. The champs play a one off championship game. Sorted.
The problem with Conferences is that one group ends up containing teams that are far stronger than the other group yet the weaker group gets teams into the finals series that don't deserve to be there as seen with the 2019 AFLW season. English soccer has 4 "Conferences" that play the entire season within their own group and then promotions and relegations occur at the conclusion of the season - that process has worked without issues for many decades and everyone understands and accepts the rules - surely the AFL could do similar with 2 divisions - or conferences as the trendies in the media call them.
Yeah I get that, and the stronger one by virtue of market share would be the vic one - I doubt the quality would be any different though.
I don't think you can attach EPL to the argument, for starters none of the market or near zero are going to support a relegation system, secondly the EPL is not equalised through salary capping - it's a free for few and a struggle for many.
My thought of a conference model for the AFL has benefactors: (If it were a vic and non vic)
- Fixture and travel equity - For vic this would be zero but for non vic the benefits over the current system are obvious.
- No travel for vic fans, and obviously much less for all the other fans.
- No complaining about where the GF is, the vic conference one will be obviously the G. The non vic can be decided on merit - more equalisation.
- There's two "equal quality" conferences to tune into. For example as a Pie fan I'd still be Kayoing the showdown glued to my seat, and you'd have two Friday night games (or marquee tv games) for fans to tune into.
The issue I have with your relegation model is that it implies there's two levels of football quality, if you were to use the now competing teams as an example, given that the comp is more even than it's ever been (apart from GC) the fans won't go for it. Not to mention your model doesn't give the impression of a championship decider, if that's the case the fans DEFINITELY WON'T go for that.
Yep we will never fully agree on the pros and cons of Conferences versus Divisions. I like Divisions as each division (as fully explained in my very long post from last week) would have a completely fair home and away fixture, a Brownlow or Goodes Medal, a finals series for the top six, a grand final and rewards for the better performed teams in the form of promotion to a higher division. Your conference plan has good points - I worry that the various tv footy shows being produced in Melbourne would end up paying scant attention to the non VIC conference and so all the better players from the non VIC conference would end up switching to the VIC conference to test and prove themselves in the big time. In the 1960s - 80s the leading players from SA,WA and TAS all joined the VFL to be a part of the big time and that problem could return with VIC and non-VIC conferences.
That's already happening, the bulk of footy media is centred around the vic clubs because of the vic market. The market dictates the current landscape and whatever conference / relegation hypothetical you wish to think of.
IF We went down either path, wherever the vic teams end up in the 1st relegation or 2nd or the vic conference, regardless they'll still attract media attention even the smaller vic clubs because they're vic. No escaping that - fans will go where their teams go. A lot easier if they don't have to - see next paragraph.
I get the equalisation sentiment behind it, fair enough. The benefit of a vic and non vic conference is that there's LESS travel for all teams and fans, wc and freo will still travel more than your mob but less than in the current model, less travel disparity and teams are likely to get more 'home' time.
If you're worried about the best of non vic going to the vic conference, I don't think it'll be like it was when I was a teen. There's enough professionalism now that the effect wouldn't be like it used to i:e the quality of the conferences wouldn't differ and the market outside vic is huge enough to give it clout in the market like they do now.
- Apr 20, 2006
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The travel would be more for the non Vic sides compared to now. Adelaide and Sydney’s shortest and most traveled trip is currently to Melbourne. They lose this. Also all teams have to travel to Perth twice which is the longest trip. Tassie makes it even worse.
I’m not sure who your other side would be and I’m just assuming Tassie is one....
I did a very long post last Wednesday at 11.20am - basically explained my reasons for why the AFL in a few years time could be a 20 team 2 division comp with 10 teams in each division and I managed to remove the various irritants that currently annoy fans in the current 18 team 22 games setup. Please scroll upwards to read it rather than save me the trouble of reposting the relevant sections that we've been analyzing since.
The 19th team is Tasmania - no disagreements there.
The 20th team is either a third Perth or Adelaide team - in my post I have leaned towards the third Adelaide team - named Sturtwood - just for fun being a merger of two current strong SANFL teams in Sturt and Norwood who back in the mid 1990s offered to merge to join the AFL as the second South Australian team ahead of Port Adelaide.
Yes I agree with your point that the non VIC teams get to do a lot of travelling around Australia while the VIC Conference teams are virtually back in the VFL. And Geelong would still have to play their home finals at the MCG as their would be no finals against Freo to be shipped down to their real home ground !
Yeah Tassie, and you might be right but at least there'd be no travel disparity between vic and non vic clubs.
So let's hypothesise that's 9 clubs if Tass (or 10 if we add another) that play each other twice h&a. So for example Tas play Hobart/ Launy then away at Optus in the one year. Same for every club............ Tas the only club without a derby / showdown.
Evens things up if we take vic clubs out doesn't it.
- Apr 20, 2006
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More even considering Vic teams are no longer taken into account but it doesn’t cut down on travel at all, it actually creates more for them.
More travel more equal, think we agree on that.
