Strategy What to do with pick 1 now we’ve got it - Do We Need Reid or is it Curtins

[Dylan82]

I've had enough of all of these kents already.

Nothing would satisfy me more right now than drafting H.Reid and watch him kick a bag against the tin-rattlers.


And anyone else wanting to entertain splitting the pick in this massively compromised draft needs to give themselves an uppercut as well.

 

[Lynch takes a mark]

Luke Hodge (via trade, hawks finished 6th that year), Des Headland

Des Headland

Age

44

Ht

186cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.8

4star

in what turned out to be one of the greatest teams of all time, Tom Boyd (premiership after being traded) and Drew Banfield

Drew Banfield

Age

50

Ht

184cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.8

3star

(in a premiership year after trading Scott Watters to Sydney).

Those are the #1 draft picks who have gone on to win premierships, I doubt it matters a huge amount, it's a roll of the dice to get a generational player, way too many variables and development pathways.

 

[TerryFilk]

Ño Point wringing your hands over it. What's done is done.


People are also underestimating how important a win against the odds, away from home, when you've copped heat from all angles is to a young team.

You can't just go from intentionally losing to suddenly flicking a switch and say "OK, let's win now."

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see Clarko ultimately fail, the regime change at North and go through another down period before they properly contend again. Once losing becomes a priority, it infects all facets of a club an it needs a complete overhaul to change to a winning mindset.

You should never prioritise losing over winning.

Look at how long Carlton and Melbourne have taken to recover after intentionally losing for a number of years?

I understand, it’s just a hard pill to swallow. I’ve watched Reid for 2 years, we had him in our hands for several months and with 2 weeks left we finally decide to play with some effort, just stings a little bit.

 

[Mulldogg]

Not sure if posted earlier but both Reid and McKercher were injured in their respective Coates Talent League games this weekend.

Unsure of the extent of either injury but saw a tweet suggesting crutches and ice for McKercher.

 

[bzparkes]

I understand, it’s just a hard pill to swallow. I’ve watched Reid for 2 years, we had him in our hands for several months and with 2 weeks left we finally decide to play with some effort, just stings a little bit.

Oh I feel you. At least we can look forward to the boys hooefully sending Hurn & Shuey off in style next week without feeling guilt about wanting to lose.

Just look at the send offs Cunnington and Ziebell got? 2 club stalwarts had to play their last games in a side that didn't want to win, and their fans are stoked about losing.

What a sad end to their careers.

 

[TerryFilk]

Oh I feel you. At least we can look forward to the boys hooefully sending Hurn & Shuey off in style next week without feeling guilt about wanting to lose.

Just look at the send offs Cunnington and Ziebell got? 2 club stalwarts had to play their last games in a side that didn't want to win, and their fans are stoked about losing.

What a sad end to their careers.

I do agree with this, I’m glad I can relax at least, that is unless North stun the Suns.

I think we screwed up big time by not focusing on losing that North game, it would’ve essentially allowed us to win 2 more games.

 

[Tugga27]

Winning one game isn’t going to develop a winning culture. It’ll be hilarious when we win 2-3 games next year as well and the excuse for missing out on Reid is “winning culture because we won a game that took us to 17th”

So you pretty much wanted us to tank?

 

[bzparkes]

I do agree with this, I’m glad I can relax at least, that is unless North stun the Suns.

I think we screwed up big time by not focusing on losing that North game, it would’ve essentially allowed us to win 2 more games.

Pretty sure we were trying to lose but you can't out-lose a team like North.

It's in their DNA now.

 

[Tugga27]

Ño Point wringing your hands over it. What's done is done.


People are also underestimating how important a win against the odds, away from home, when you've copped heat from all angles is to a young team.

You can't just go from intentionally losing to suddenly flicking a switch and say "OK, let's win now."

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see Clarko ultimately fail, the regime change at North and go through another down period before they properly contend again. Once losing becomes a priority, it infects all facets of a club an it needs a complete overhaul to change to a winning mindset.

You should never prioritise losing over winning.

Look at how long Carlton and Melbourne have taken to recover after intentionally losing for a number of years?

These posters who are basically advocating that we tank.
Perhaps should think about the coach who is fighting for his job and some players who are fight for their careers.

But that's ok.
Lie down boys, I won't be here and neither will some of you. but at least Harley will be.

 

[Godfather32]

These posters who are basically advocating that we tank.
Perhaps should think about the coach who is fighting for his job and some players who are fight for their careers.

But that's ok.
Lie down boys, I won't be here and neither will some of you. but at least Harley will be.

My Norf mate who's a member said he got an email from the club that Simmo was a lock to come back into a role in their football department and was just trying to actively sabotage us as much as possible before he leaves.
The AFL are in on it as well which is why they didn't overturn the Adelaide result.

 

[Coasters7]

So you pretty much wanted us to tank?

Things like not burning Yeo out with more time in the middle than he was supposed to (and more ToG in the Bombers game) wouldn’t be tanking given it went against the pre match plans but those sorts of things would get us the loss.

Going above and beyond to win when it’s close, rather than just letting it be with the plans and structures we’d put in place, has cooked us. No need to try our guts out now when the seasons been done for months.

Go out there to win for sure, but to put this sort of effort in now (especially after the piss poor effort put in only a week ago) is borderline insulting as a fan and epitomises the last 3 years

 

[dkalphy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH are you guys happy? wowhoooe we won a dead rubber match which sets us back even more, wooooooooo.

Well done on being the worst team in AFL history with countless 100+ losses and to show for this we miss out on not only pick 1 but pick 2 also.

Is everyone happy now? woooohooo, go Oscar having a great game when he does not need to play and should be on ice.

Norf have been tanking, resting LDU + Wardlaw etc etc... we fricken have no idea.

 

[TerryFilk]

So you pretty much wanted us to tank?

Yes I wanted to tank that one game. Would’ve then allowed us to win 2 more games after it + secure Reid.

 

[archiemoses]

You can lose a game of footy without directly telling the players to lose.

 

[plays tall 1]

Winning one game isn’t going to develop a winning culture. It’ll be hilarious when we win 2-3 games next year as well and the excuse for missing out on Reid is “winning culture because we won a game that took us to 17th”

Exactly. So many cheerleaders on here talking up a massive culture boost because the guys decided they’d put in today (for a change). Never mind the debacle last week. Or the truckload of other debacles this year and last. And the number of conditional efforts over many years.

I enjoyed the game, but the result is damaging. Even if we didn’t want Reid, to have picks 1 and 19 provides a lot of bargaining power. We lost that today.

We have an old list. The old players were huge today. They’ll be gone soon. They rarely play as it is. And they choose when they put in. Conditional, occasional effort: that’s our culture now, no matter what happened today.

The suggestion that pick 1 is not that valuable based on stats which are claimed to show low correlation between pick 1s and flags is ridiculous. Does that mean that if, say, more pick 15s or pick 23s in the comp currently have won flags, then it follows that picks 15 or 23 are more valuable? Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[bzparkes]

Exactly. So many cheerleaders on here talking up a massive culture boost because the guys decided they’d put in today (for a change). Never mind the debacle last week. Or the truckload of other debacles this year and last. And the number of conditional efforts over many years.

I enjoyed the game, but the result is damaging. Even if we didn’t want Reid, to have picks 1 and 19 provides a lot of bargaining power. We lost that today.

We have an old list. The old players were huge today. They’ll be gone soon. They rarely play as it is. And they choose when they put in. Conditional, occasional effort: that’s our culture now, no matter what happened today.

The suggestion that pick 1 is not that valuable based on stats which are claimed to show low correlation between pick 1s and flags is ridiculous. Does that mean that if, say, more pick 15s or pick 23s in the comp currently have won flags, then it follows that picks 15 or 23 are more valuable? Correlation does not equal causation.

What do you think the most important thing is when it comes to winning games?

The number players were drafted at?

 

[plays tall 1]

These posters who are basically advocating that we tank.
Perhaps should think about the coach who is fighting for his job and some players who are fight for their careers.

But that's ok.
Lie down boys, I won't be here and neither will some of you. but at least Harley will be.

Are you happy with the efforts of the club these last few years? Could/should they have done much better?

What do you think of the club culture?

You really think this is a turning point?

 

[archiemoses]

We just needed to manage the last two games, get effort but not the result. The repercussions are significant for the draft picks we have given up.

All for a fleeting feel good story that will mean absolutely nothing the next time we get belted by 100.

And if simmo leaves it means even less.

 

[plays tall 1]

What do you think the most important thing is when it comes to winning games?

The number players were drafted at?

Hard to say what’s most important. So many components to success including talent, availability, development, culture and opportunity.

But I know that pick 1 provides a great opportunity to boost talent, whether by selecting a player with that pick or by trading down for multiple picks.

 

[bzparkes]

Hard to say what’s most important. So many components to success including talent, availability, development, culture and opportunity.

But I know that pick 1 provides a great opportunity to boost talent, whether by selecting at player with that pick or by trading down for multiple picks.

How did all that 'talent' serve the Wester Bulldogs today?

How about North, having more top 10 draft picks than pretty much anyone not GWS/GC?

I'd have preferred to have had Reid this year also but not at the cost of the team deliberately losing.

Players aren't stupid, they know when the coaches aren't coaching to win. North players absolutely know it, it's why they look like they don't give 2 shits whether they win or lose, they're just happy to rock up and get paid.

All the draft picks under the sun isn't going to turn their fortunes around when players know the club would rather lose than get them a win.

 

[Coasters7]

We just needed to manage the last two games, get effort but not the result. The repercussions are significant for the draft picks we have given up.

All for a fleeting feel good story that will mean absolutely nothing the next time we get belted by 100.

And if simmo leaves it means even less.

Realistically not even that. Manage the North game then come home as strong as you like

 

[King LeBron]

I can't believe there are people here who actively wanted us to lose. As much as I would have loved Reid, while watching the game the inner supporter in me wanted that win as much as any other game. I couldn't feel any other way despite knowing the consequences of a win, and I'd question the true loyalty of any supporter here who felt any different.

 

[TerryFilk]

We just needed to manage the last two games, get effort but not the result. The repercussions are significant for the draft picks we have given up.

All for a fleeting feel good story that will mean absolutely nothing the next time we get belted by 100.

And if simmo leaves it means even less.

I think Simmo still leaves and this was just his parting gift.

 

[plays tall 1]

How did all that 'talent' serve the Wester Bulldogs today?

How about North, having more top 10 draft picks than pretty much anyone not GWS/GC?

I'd have preferred to have had Reid this year also but not at the cost of the team deliberately losing.

Players aren't stupid, they know when the coaches aren't coaching to win. North players absolutely know it, it's why they look like they don't give 2 shits whether they win or lose, they're just happy to rock up and get paid.

All the draft picks under the sun isn't going to turn their fortunes around when players know the club would rather lose than get them a win.

Do you think we’ve got a winning culture at the club currently? Or over the last few years? Do you think players give their best each week?

I think the club culture is stale, complacent and conservative. Essendon and Carlton had winning cultures once, look at them now.

We need new leaders to drive a cultural refresh. This pop-up effort because Simmo copped a bit of flak this week is not significant.

 

[the big lebowski]

How did all that 'talent' serve the Wester Bulldogs today?

How about North, having more top 10 draft picks than pretty much anyone not GWS/GC?

I'd have preferred to have had Reid this year also but not at the cost of the team deliberately losing.

Players aren't stupid, they know when the coaches aren't coaching to win. North players absolutely know it, it's why they look like they don't give 2 shits whether they win or lose, they're just happy to rock up and get paid.

All the draft picks under the sun isn't going to turn their fortunes around when players know the club would rather lose than get them a win.

We are that shit mate we aren’t doing it on purpose. We are basically bereft of any above average player over the age of 25. We are playing Kayne turner. Not because he’s good but because there is no one better fit in the vfl. Our list is completely unbalanced. And we could delist/retire 14 this year and not blink an eye.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

I think Simmo still leaves and this was just his parting gift.