Opinion What unpopular AFL opinions do you have? - Part 2

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Mr Meow said:
This isn't jumping on you, simply expressing the reasoning you ask for.

Carey was twice voted the League MVP. Few forwards have won it (Riewoldt is the only to win it this century) and only a handful of players in general have won it multiple times.

He was the best in his position for 8 consecutive years, only injury in 1997 stopped that being 8 consecutive AAs at CHF. That's incredibly rare. Besides Matthews and GAJ, who have had that claim over the past 50 years? Maybe Franklin as a CHF as well?

4 B&Fs as a key forward would also be considered quite rare I'd think.

His goal tally is strong but not as lofty as others who sat deeper - Ablett Senior being the exception. 17 disposals a game as a key forward in that era is equivalent to 20 plus today. He roamed up and down the ground and was a presence all over. CHF was basically modeled on how he played the position. He was the prototype.

It ended in disgrace and by all reports he is a prick, but he was considered arguably THE talismanic player of his generation and lead NM to multiple flags.
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I know Carey won a shit tonne of awards and stuff like that but I just look at his stats and I can't see why he was seen that way. I mean his stats are good, but they are not "best player of his generation" good.

I know stats don't tell the whole story but Carey played in an era where huge numbers of goals were being kicked by Key Forwards and comparatively compared to players who played in his era Carey kicked very few goals.
 
RUNVS said:
I know Carey won a s**t tonne of awards and stuff like that but I just look at his stats and I can't see why he was seen that way. I mean his stats are good, but they are not "best player of his generation" good.

I know stats don't tell the whole story but Carey played in an era where huge numbers of goals were being kicked by Key Forwards and comparatively compared to players who played in his era Carey kicked very few goals.
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If you compare him to FF's sure.

But he didn't play FF.
 

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RUNVS said:
Buddy's stats are mostly better than Carey's and Buddy played in the same position in an era where goal kicking was harder.
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He also played as the prime goal kicking target and he didn’t really play the same position. He played a more diverse position perhaps because of the sheer volume of ground he covered but he also spent plenty of time deep and as the main man.

For most of his career at north, Carey simply did not play a position that could be approximated as full forward. John Longmire did (and played it bloody well I might add)
 
RUNVS said:
Buddy's stats are mostly better than Carey's and Buddy played in the same position in an era where goal kicking was harder.
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Looking at stats alone (a few of these we only have 1998 onwards for Carey, so 3/6 recorded years were "weaker" ones - maybe cancelled out by excluding his rookie years):

-Franklin had an extra 0.3 goals, 2 uncontested possessions, 1.3 tackles and 2.2 clangers per game.

-Carey had an extra 1.7 disposals, 1.3 contested possessions, 1.3 marks, 0.6 contested marks (I think this one would have a bigger difference by including pre 1998), 0.3 inside 50s and 0.5 rebound 50s per game.

Carey had 30 disposals on 5 occasions. Franklin never did that despite being in a much higher disposal era. 10 plus games with 14 marks or more compared to none for Franklin.

So it seems like Carey got more of the ball and more contested footy then used it better, including better goal kicking accuracy.

Franklin had two extra bags of 9 goals or more and hit greater top goal tallies in a season.

Stats don't tell the full story anyway. You did watch Carey play right?

Both greats of their generation with different strengths. Franklin didn't play amongst quite as freakish a collection of forwards, that's all. Both with spectacular highlight reels and almost unstoppable for opposition defenders.
 
Mr Meow said:
Looking at stats alone (a few of these we only have 1998 onwards for Carey, so 3/6 recorded years were "weaker" ones - maybe cancelled out by excluding his rookie years):

-Franklin had an extra 0.3 goals, 2 uncontested possessions, 1.3 tackles and 2.2 clangers per game.

-Carey had an extra 1.7 disposals, 1.3 contested possessions, 1.3 marks, 0.6 contested marks (I think this one would have a bigger difference by including pre 1998), 0.3 inside 50s and 0.5 rebound 50s per game.

Carey had 30 disposals on 5 occasions. Franklin never did that despite being in a much higher disposal era. 10 plus games with 14 marks or more compared to none for Franklin.

So it seems like Carey got more of the ball and more contested footy then used it better, including better goal kicking accuracy.

Franklin had two extra bags of 9 goals or more and hit greater top goal tallies in a season.

Stats don't tell the full story anyway. You did watch Carey play right?

Both greats of their generation with different strengths. Franklin didn't play amongst quite as freakish a collection of forwards, that's all. Both with spectacular highlight reels and almost unstoppable for opposition defenders.
Click to expand...

I watched Carey but I admit it was later on in his career I started watching (sort of late 90's).

I am not saying Carey was a bad player, happy to acknowledge he was a top 30 player of all time, but there is nothing in his stats indicating he was more than that. He averaged more disposals than Buddy over the course of his career which is not nothing, but he also averaged viewer goals too. I can't think of many times in his career where a teammate kicked more goals in a season than Buddy, but it seemingly happened fairly frequently with Carey.

Again though, not saying he was a bad player, but I don't think he was the best player of all time.

In saying that though I wish there were more detailed stats of Carey's career, but unfortunately they were just not recorded like they are in the modern game.
 
RUNVS said:
I watched Carey but I admit it was later on in his career I started watching (sort of late 90's).

I am not saying Carey was a bad player, happy to acknowledge he was a top 30 player of all time, but there is nothing in his stats indicating he was more than that. He averaged more disposals than Buddy over the course of his career which is not nothing, but he also averaged viewer goals too. I can't think of many times in his career where a teammate kicked more goals in a season than Buddy, but it seemingly happened fairly frequently with Carey.

Again though, not saying he was a bad player, but I don't think he was the best player of all time.

In saying that though I wish there were more detailed stats of Carey's career, but unfortunately they were just not recorded like they are in the modern game.
Click to expand...
Carey had presence out on the field like no one else. A lot of the gloss has been removed from his career by his off field issues by most it seems. He was a must watch every week in the 90s
 
RUNVS said:
I watched Carey but I admit it was later on in his career I started watching (sort of late 90's).

I am not saying Carey was a bad player, happy to acknowledge he was a top 30 player of all time, but there is nothing in his stats indicating he was more than that. He averaged more disposals than Buddy over the course of his career which is not nothing, but he also averaged viewer goals too. I can't think of many times in his career where a teammate kicked more goals in a season than Buddy, but it seemingly happened fairly frequently with Carey.

Again though, not saying he was a bad player, but I don't think he was the best player of all time.

In saying that though I wish there were more detailed stats of Carey's career, but unfortunately they were just not recorded like they are in the modern game.
Click to expand...

Carey was brilliant and was almost unstoppable on his day. He and North made Friday night football what it is and North owned it pretty much. It wasn't until Eddie Maguire decided Collingwood would be an AFL franchise that Friday nights were taken away from North.
 
RUNVS said:
I watched Carey but I admit it was later on in his career I started watching (sort of late 90's).

I am not saying Carey was a bad player, happy to acknowledge he was a top 30 player of all time, but there is nothing in his stats indicating he was more than that. He averaged more disposals than Buddy over the course of his career which is not nothing, but he also averaged viewer goals too. I can't think of many times in his career where a teammate kicked more goals in a season than Buddy, but it seemingly happened fairly frequently with Carey.

Again though, not saying he was a bad player, but I don't think he was the best player of all time.

In saying that though I wish there were more detailed stats of Carey's career, but unfortunately they were just not recorded like they are in the modern game.
Click to expand...
Carey marked in packs like Charlie and turned for goal in ways we've only seen Buddy and Charlie do since.

He was also so nimble for a guy of his size, you could easily mistake him for a midfielder when he was at full flight. He was mercurial like Daicos too, slotting them from anywhere and everywhere and drew opposition players to him.

He's my GOAT
 
ChristianBoy said:
Carey was brilliant and was almost unstoppable on his day. He and North made Friday night football what it is and North owned it pretty much. It wasn't until Eddie Maguire decided Collingwood would be an AFL franchise that Friday nights were taken away from North.
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Im not even mad just impressed that you can even turn a conversation about Carey into a Collingwood melt. You are something special
 
BringFevBack2021 said:
Carey marked in packs like Charlie and turned for goal in ways we've only seen Buddy and Charlie do since.

He was also so nimble for a guy of his size, you could easily mistake him for a midfielder when he was at full flight. He was mercurial like Daicos too, slotting them from anywhere and everywhere and drew opposition players to him.

He's my GOAT
Click to expand...
The left foot banana from the pocket against Essendon that time was off the charts
 

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BringFevBack2021 said:
Carey marked in packs like Charlie and turned for goal in ways we've only seen Buddy and Charlie do since.

He was also so nimble for a guy of his size, you could easily mistake him for a midfielder when he was at full flight. He was mercurial like Daicos too, slotting them from anywhere and everywhere and drew opposition players to him.

He's my GOAT
Click to expand...

and yet despite his amazing marking ability he didn't kick that many goals.
 
RUNVS said:
and yet despite his amazing marking ability he didn't kick that many goals.
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You're being deliberately obtuse now when I just provided a statistical comparison. 0.3 less goals per game are quite easily compensated by the rest, especially when Carey had 2 less clangers per game despite winning more of the footy and more in contested situations.

Buddy roamed up the field but also spent a lot more time deep inside 50. Carey was a classic CHF, involved in setting goals up as much as kicking them. Twice league MVP, best in his position for an 8 year period. Probably the toughest player in the league to stop. It's silly to ignore all that.

Like you said you caught a bit of his late 90s career. How many matches, a dozen? Two? You're not really an expert on the subject.
 
Mr Meow said:
You're being deliberately obtuse now when I just provided a statistical comparison. 0.3 less goals per game are quite easily compensated by the rest, especially when Carey had 2 less clangers per game despite winning more of the footy and more in contested situations.

Buddy roamed up the field but also spent a lot more time deep inside 50. Carey was a classic CHF, involved in setting goals up as much as kicking them. Twice league MVP, best in his position for an 8 year period. Probably the toughest player in the league to stop. It's silly to ignore all that.

Like you said you caught a bit of his late 90s career. How many matches, a dozen? Two? You're not really an expert on the subject.
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He was a key forward who did not kick that many goals compared to the players he was around. Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett Snr.

He is a forward who does not kick enough goals, or a midfielder who doesn't get the ball enough.

Compare his stats to Nick Riewoldt and they are very very similar. Why is Carey one of the greats but Riewoldt isn't?
 
RUNVS said:
He was a key forward who did not kick that many goals compared to the players he was around. Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett Snr.

He is a forward who does not kick enough goals, or a midfielder who doesn't get the ball enough.

Compare his stats to Nick Riewoldt and they are very very similar. Why is Carey one of the greats but Riewoldt isn't?
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Riewoldt is though.
 
Jonathan Brown

Considerable daylight

Nick Riewoldt

Sunset

Matthew Pavlich

complete darkness

Wayne Carey

#facts
 
Last edited:
I loved Brown and will argue that his peak as a player was as good or maybe slightly better than most of those other CHF of his era. But he didnt maintain it for long while other guys did. I cant seriously agree that Brown was better than Riewoldt, Carey, Tredrea, etc

EDIT: forgot which thread this is in, so totally fine to argue that
 
Unpopular opinions:
- I find Dane Swan and Dustin Martin as 2 of the most boring personalities to ever play afl. For some reason people seem to like them. But to me, they're boring and their laid back personality is just a cover for not too much going on upstairs imo. Great players tho lol

- I think people overrate Alistair Clarkson as a coach. Fact of the matter is you don't have to be a good coach to win a flag. Simon Goodwin is a horrendous coach and we won. a flag. I think most coaches with Buddy, Roughead, Sam Mitchell Hodge, Cyril and Josh Gibson could also win multiple.

- I don't mind Kane Cornes. He is too stubborn to admit defeat which is the only thing I don't like but his strong opinions are refreshing in a time where journalists are just sheep that follow the afl guidelines.

- I've never understood why Rory Laird and Josh Dunkley don't make regular AA teams. I'll take their hardness and consistency over the Zac Merrett types.

- The bottom 4 teams should be in a lottery. It gets rid of the tanking.

- The grand final pre match entertainment and half time entertainment is also horrendous. I'd rather watch the grass grow.

- I prefer watching the footy at Marvel stadium. I like the modern stadiums with a roof over the dirty mcg with seagulls flapping around all over the joint.
 
RUNVS said:
and yet despite his amazing marking ability he didn't kick that many goals.
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I think your idea is on topic for the thread but I just can't agree with you that he isn't in the GOAT discussion.

Think about how insanely good Charlie Curnow was this season (finals omitted of course) and note this stat comparison for Carey's best three seasons versus Charlie Curnows AA FF, Coleman Medal Winning, 3rd in club BnF 2023 season.

Charlie Curnow 2023*Wayne Carey 1996^Wayne Carey 1998^Wayne Carey 1999**
Scoring81.4482.5580.4976.39
Marks180200193145
Disposals356486489353

*26 Games
^25 Games
**20 Games

We can all agree that Charlie's season is one of the best seasons by a KPF in recent years (finals were poo, obviously), and yet it is only comparable to Carey's 3rd best season statistically, and that is with Carey playing a total of 6 games less than Charlie did in 2023.

Charlie would need to be about 10% better next year to even have a single season comparable to Carey's best seasons. Charlie is a freak too. Carey is just on another planet man.
 

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Opinion What unpopular AFL opinions do you have? - Part 2

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