What went wrong and how do we fix it for the run home?

[Wood_Duck]

Brodie Martin gives us some outside pace and has good disposal. I am f#$%@d if I know why he is playing one on one in a back pocket.
N.B The first time I have criticised Sanderson all year.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Agree to disagree on Symes. I feel he, Knights and Tambling need a crack under Sando. A decent one not just as sub. Symes can defend.

ternoon.

Since when?

He didn't do it last year. He would gain possession of the ball and then turn it over but his defensive skills make Martin and Jeasnch defensive skills look good.

 

[Vader]

Martin & Jaensch both have good disposal skills. Symes' are attrocious. On the other hand, Symes is a much better defender than either Martin or Jaensch. If only we could come up with a genetic mix containing the best of both players - Jaensch' disposal, Symes' defensive capabilities. We'd have a complete AFL footballer, instead of 3x half-baked players.

 

[feenix67]

I dont know whether this has been mentioned yet, but I think our strength around the contest has become our weakness as well (although we lost contested ball yesterday, anyway). I noticed in the Collingwood game that we continually outnumbered them at the ball, yet they always had a few outriders just 5 metres off the contest. We'd muck around in the pack to get the ball free, but were outnumbered at the outside and on the spread. I thought it was very good coaching on the part of Buckley, and it really hurt us in the last quarter with tired legs.

It has been evident but not as damaging since. I wonder whther we've been worked out a little and whether we just need to be a little "smarter" in terms of numbers at the contest, because we're sure as hell getting smashed on the break recently.

 

[Geoffa32]

Martin & Jaensch both have good disposal skills. Symes' are attrocious. On the other hand, Symes is a much better defender than either Martin or Jaensch. If only we could come up with a genetic mix containing the best of both players - Jaensch' disposal, Symes' defensive capabilities. We'd have a complete AFL footballer, instead of 3x half-baked players.

This.

Much like if we combined McKernan's natural ability and Jenkins strength, and hunger.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

This.

Much like if we combined McKernan's natural ability and Jenkins strength, and hunger.

Sorry Geoff but i feel you're overly exaggerating McKernan's natural ability...Jenkins has far better skills, athleticism.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

It has been evident but not as damaging since. I wonder whther we've been worked out a little and whether we just need to be a little "smarter" in terms of numbers at the contest, because we're sure as hell getting smashed on the break recently.

Correct.

We need some players who can run harder and faster defensively. Enter Henderson, Smith and possibly Brown.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Brodie Martin gives us some outside pace and has good disposal. I am f#$%@d if I know why he is playing one on one in a back pocket.
N.B The first time I have criticised Sanderson all year.

Are either of them elite runners? Enough to run in the midfield I mean? I get the impression that they're not.

 

[Geoffa32]

Sorry Geoff but i feel you're overly exaggerating McKernan's natural ability...Jenkins has far better skills, athleticism.

Probably thinking more of his ability in Ruck, than as a forward.

McKernan is more an undersized Ruck than forward, Jenkins is big Forward more than an undersized Ruck.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

At the game it looked to me as though we were very much top heavy with McKernan, Tip and Walker in the same forward line together. Without Petrenko up there we were very slow as Porps and Callinan aren't quick either. The killer was the last two goals of the first quarter, this gave North great momentum going into the second quarter. Can't say I saw the incident with McKernan, but it kick-started North from that point.
Changes for me...Hendo, Stiffy (or Knights) and Lynch back in....one of Martin or Jaensch out (though I suspect Shaw may not play this week), Dougie and McKernan out, neither to don a Crows guernsey again - both are list clogging spuds!

 

[Wood_Duck]

Are either of them elite runners? Enough to run in the midfield I mean? I get the impression that they're not.

I'd give Martin a chance, doubt Jaensch could do it.

 

[Ad76]

Sorry Geoff but i feel you're overly exaggerating McKernan's natural ability...Jenkins has far better skills, athleticism.

I'm in the minority here (it seems) in that i actually rate McKernan's ability. He's still only 21, and i think he'll be a late bloomer. With that said though his complete lack of discipline is a liability. 4 games: 5 FF, 12 Frees against. And these havent been clumsy ruck contest frees either.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

In terms of addressing the question posed in the thread title, the place that you have to start is the game plan - what is it we are trying to do? It's only once you know that, that you can say where it went wrong.

To state the bleeding obvious, you can only have 18 players on the field at the time, and the question is how to best utilise the 18 you have. All clubs do it differently, but our method is to get as many numbers at the contest as possible in order to win as many contests as you can, get the ball forward, and repeat. There are a few knock on effects of this:

1. It means that the opposition have more numbers outside the contest than we do.
2. It means many of our players are concentrated into a small space, resulting in lots of space outside the contest.
3. It means we don't have spare players behind the ball, with our defence playing largely 1 on 1 footy. If we want to have a spare man, the onus is on a player to leave his man to become the third man up (something the Geelong defence was excellent at during their period of dominance).

The combination of these things mean that, under our current game plan, if the opposition are able to move the ball cleanly away from a contested situation, they will be able to run into space and deliver into a forward line full of 1 on 1's, a recipe for disaster for us. I didn't watch the Hawthorn game, but until yesterday I hadn't seen any team really chop us up this way (the Collingwood game was a different beast - our game plan actually worked ok for 3 quarters until we stopped dead in our tracks in the last quarter - 6 v 8 days break put paid to us that night).

Usually our numbers at the contest will allow us to either win the ball or to put enough pressure on the opposition that even if they win it, they are not able to move it cleanly, resulting in another contest, which we have usually been able to win or put enough pressure on etc. We have copped a few soft goals throughout the season when teams have got the ball away from the contest and spread on us (the easiest examples I can think of are the 3rd quarter of the Showdown, and various times v St Kilda), but I have figured that I can live with that being a byproduct of the way we play. You can't be so dominant around the contest, but on the odd occasion you are soundly beaten in that area, contain the spread as well. After all, you can only have 18 players on the field at the time.

So, what went wrong yesterday? Quite simply, we were outworked. Goldstein slaughtered Jacobs in the ruck, North's midfielders dominated the contested ball, spread hard, and led us a merry dance. We didn't get to enough contests, we were constantly outnumbered, and even when we did make the contest, we didn't win it and applied virtually no pressure. Our tackling, which has been ferocious this year, was reminiscent of the last couple of years. There was no smothering, no knocking down handballs, no diving after loose balls, no winning or halving 1 on 2, 1 on 3 contests which we have been doing this year. Once North were able to get uncontested ball in their forward half, we were always in trouble.

Which led to the other thing that went wrong - we have a number of defenders who can't, you know, defend. Shaw had a stinker, these things happen. I'm not calling for his head. Jaensch and Martin were liabilities. A lot of people seem to be having trouble adjusting to our game plan in a defensive sense. The days of the Crows having running, rebounding half backs bursting forward are over. The defenders are in the team to defend, to get the ball away, and the midfielders deal with it from there. We're not used to that, run from half back was a hallmark of Craig's Crows. Put simply, we have the wrong players in defence to play our current style of game. Jaensch and Martin are attacking players who have excellent qualities in their own right, but they are not in a position to use them. If they are not good enough to be in the team as attacking players, they should be playing for Sturt. Whether we actually have the right players on our list to play in our defensive system is another matter, but we did look better with Hendo and Smith back there.

In any event, our midfield's capitulation exposed our existing defensive frailties.

Who knows what caused it. Was it a virus, complacency, an off day, North playing well, or a combination of the lot? Add to all that 2 lots of 2 momentum shifting missed set shots, the loss of defensive pressure in the forward half with Petrenko as the sub (Wright and Callinan cannot be faulted for their effort, but neither have Petrenko's combination of pace, aggression and tackling ability), and the fact that North Melbourne exploited our weaknesses well by using space, running hard and switching the play, and we paid for it.

So, how do we fix it? One word. Intensity. We need to get back to ferociously winning the contested ball, outnumbering our opponents at the contest (I lost count of how many times I thought to myself yesterday, how much harder are North running, they have numbers at every single contest, and then numbers on teh spread), and tackling. If we get back to those fundamentals of our game plan, it won't eradicate our weaknesses, but it will prevent them from being exposed like they were yesterday, and we will win a lot more games of footy this year.

Long post, but very thoughtful one & well worth quoting.

We did look extremely flat early. Whilst I don't want to take anything awayy from the Roos who were far more desperate,lLike Vader I suspect we went in with too many players with the flu. We took over 2 ermergencies (which is unusual) & in hindsight we should have used them, rather than play unfit players.

Was one of them Jacobs, as he didn't look his usual self. Really highlighted if Jacobs has a poor day/not giving our midfielders usual good service, we are lacking a plan B for the midfield & get opened up too early. We need to address this to deal with better next time & shows that Jacobs is a player we can ill afford to use.

An irony was that for the 1st time we had a full strength midfield (on paper), yet got smashed. Perhaps we played 1 midfielder too many & our team balance was wrong (too many similar types). Perhaps we need more defensive options - missed Pets up forward & have too many attacking options down back.

Martin can play, but is more suited to a wingman role - but we already have Vince, Mackay, Douglas - who are all arguably better so unless he displaces one, he shouldn't be playing IMO.

Jaensch is important like Reilly to rebound from defence... but surely time for Stiffy to return too back to his old role. We need more lock down types. Doughty has been doing OK in this role & Smith was doing a reasonable job before being dropped - was playing more this role than Martin who is more attacking. Again wrong defensive mix with too many attacking types.

Shaw has shown good promise, but probably time for the SANFL at the moment to learn more of his craft - straight swap with Hendo.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I'm in the minority here (it seems) in that i actually rate McKernan's ability. He's still only 21, and i think he'll be a late bloomer. With that said though his complete lack of discipline is a liability. 4 games: 5 FF, 12 Frees against. And these havent been clumsy ruck contest frees either.

Had a stinker against the Roos, but hate dropping players after 1 game. Should get another game or 2 to show his wears.

 

[Elite Crow]

I dont know whether this has been mentioned yet, but I think our strength around the contest has become our weakness as well (although we lost contested ball yesterday, anyway). I noticed in the Collingwood game that we continually outnumbered them at the ball, yet they always had a few outriders just 5 metres off the contest. We'd muck around in the pack to get the ball free, but were outnumbered at the outside and on the spread. I thought it was very good coaching on the part of Buckley, and it really hurt us in the last quarter with tired legs.

It has been evident but not as damaging since. I wonder whther we've been worked out a little and whether we just need to be a little "smarter" in terms of numbers at the contest, because we're sure as hell getting smashed on the break recently.

This is exactly what's going on. David King has highlighted it on AFL insiders a couple of times. We need to get more players to stay out of the contest, there's no point having 3 players trying to win the same contested ball and add speed around the contest, time to play Smith as a wingman.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

This is exactly what's going on. David King has highlighted it on AFL insiders a couple of times. We need to get more players to stay out of the contest, there's no point having 3 players trying to win the same contested ball and add speed around the contest, time to play Smith as a wingman.

Yep, it is about having a plan B/adjusting when we are being exposed by the opposition. I'm sure Sando would be learning & isn't so stubborn!

 

[Ad76]

Had a stinker against the Roos, but hate dropping players after 1 game. Should get another game or 2 to show his wears.

If we're talking purely form/development of a young player then I'm with you. But the discipline issue changes things. It's not the ones game either - he's given away silly free kicks in every game I've seen him play. (25 frees against in 16 games last season).

 

[PykeDream]

Is anyone else thinking that dropping Porps may be a good idea? With Tip + Jacobs/McKernan + Walker in our forward line, he is not required as a marking forward. His skills beneath the knees aren't what they were, he's not fast and can't make a tackle truly stick. If Lynch was to play rather than a third ruck, then I might think differently, but what we need right now if an additional winger hanging around the packs and who can drop back to defence when absolutely necessary. I'd be tempted to take out Porps, have Vince and Douglas on the forward flanks and Mackay and Martin/Jaensch on the wings. Brown or Smith could fill the position in defence, as could Johncock despite my misgivings about his defensive ability. Would our team look better with this change in dynamic?

 

[Cap]

Yep, it is about having a plan B/adjusting when we are being exposed by the opposition. I'm sure Sando would be learning & isn't so stubborn!

ahh the old Plan b

 

[skoobydoo]

Some bits.
Symes is a handy footballer who spreads well but his disposal is his weakest side.

We missed Pets on Sunday because we have no other small forwards (Callanan exepted) who look dangerous enough to to make a real contest and CREATE some scoring tricks (eg Milne St Kilda). Most of our present small forward work is opportunism.

I cannot see how Tambling is even on the radar at the moment.

We need to develop rebounding play makers coming out of defence and I guess that is what they are hoping with Martin. We cannot just have a group of stoppers, ala Doughty.

Jaensch doesn't look happy where he is at the moment.

 

[mattymac]

It has been evident but not as damaging since. I wonder whther we've been worked out a little and whether we just need to be a little "smarter" in terms of numbers at the contest, because we're sure as hell getting smashed on the break recently.

This is clearly the case. Too many blokes at the ball and noone to get it out to. How many times do we get smothered or dragged off the kick trying to randomly kick a hurried kick forward out of the pack rather than have the lurker ready to receive the handball or clean up the scraps if it spills out and make a targetted disposal up the ground? Our opposition have been doing this with regular monotony the last few weeks, capitalising on our over-commitment to the contest, pretty much since the collingwood game.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Especially in combination with half the team having the flu. Put those two together and we were probably lucky to get away with losing as narrowly as we did.

After reading through all the comments I feel that everyone is over analysing the performance. Yes we have some concerns especially considering the final quarter against the Saints and in other games this year we have done extremely well in the first half and then been outscored in the second half. And yes there are some players that are inconsistent with their performances, but on Sunday it was obvious from early in the first quarter that ALL players were struggling. That fact that it was ALL players suggests that something happened that effected ALL players. Was it the flu or perhaps the training issue that has been mentioned but our team of Sunday was flat from halfway through the first quarter.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

After reading through all the comments I feel that everyone is over analysing the performance. Yes we have some concerns especially considering the final quarter against the Saints and in other games this year we have done extremely well in the first half and then been outscored in the second half. And yes there are some players that are inconsistent with their performances, but on Sunday it was obvious from early in the first quarter that ALL players were struggling. That fact that it was ALL players suggests that something happened that effected ALL players. Was it the flu or perhaps the training issue that has been mentioned but our team of Sunday was flat from halfway through the first quarter.

My guess is that Bernie and Jaenschy took a group of the boys to their favourite Melbourne Clubs on Saturday Night. They certainly played like they had a big one on Saturday Night/ Sunday morning.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'm sure I posted something in this thread... did it get removed?

I'm sorry to have reported your post but that sort of language just isn't on young lady.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Some bits.
Symes is a handy footballer who spreads well but his disposal is his weakest side.

We missed Pets on Sunday because we have no other small forwards (Callanan exepted) who look dangerous enough to to make a real contest and CREATE some scoring tricks (eg Milne St Kilda). Most of our present small forward work is opportunism.

I cannot see how Tambling is even on the radar at the moment.

We need to develop rebounding play makers coming out of defence and I guess that is what they are hoping with Martin. We cannot just have a group of stoppers, ala Doughty.

Jaensch doesn't look happy where he is at the moment.

Symes is more than handy at SANFL level, but his disposal will never come up to AFL standard. ie. Doesn't have the upside to pick - which is a pity as you can't fault his attitude (apart from riding golf carts).

We lacked players with pressure acts - have too many similar midfield types like Martin, Douglas, Vince who don't tackle much. Pets with the green vest just added to our woes. IMO, we are lacking stopper/defensive types in defence.

Jaensch should be playing more off HBF rather than BP. Better off playing Stiffy on the last line.