Expansion Where do you find 80 players ?

[Pessimistic]

Its just over 12% of the total (2 teams added to 16) so you simply put policies in place to extend careers on average 12%.

The average time on a list is 3 yrs so if just one third of existing players get a one year extension of their career thats the 12% extra right there.

Contrary to what commentators are saying the bottom 80 players on lists would be much the same standard after the expansion - and they spend most of their time in reserves teams anyway.

Its the top end where the problem is. There was hyper inflation in salaries when freo and port joined. This needs to be managed.

Allowing existing clubs to increase lists before the club starts, and allowing the new club to participate in the one or two drafts before then will help. When they enter the competition they can trade their young recruits for uncontracted players from other clubs.

Another assistance would be for clubs to be able to transfer draft picks between drafts - as the compensation draft might be a crap one.

Intersting that essendon is pretty keen on the idea. It's well known the secured lloyd when they lost ridley to freo. ironically hawks lost a more valuable player - Ben Allan but got less in return,

But essendon fared worse after port arrived, the salary cap cruelled them after the stellar 2000 season and port got some handy players direct from that. The Bpmbers would have mixed reactions at the player side of things

 

[Corpuscles]

I don't think the dilution of the talent pool or the aggregate number of players is the problem! There would be plenty close to being drafted that might have ended up better or as good as current players had they got a chance

BUT

Where or how do they create 2 competitive sides from scratch?

Nearly every team has a superstar and several very elite players, a core of experienced 23-28 players and balance of WIP quality juniors and backup depth

The only way I can think of , would be to give the new team ability to raid all other clubs including needing to pick up a superstar and several very elite players! I don't think existing clubs will stand for that

Otherwise GC & WS end up starting out second (or fifth) rate way-off-the-pace-jokes that won't attract a following or sustain it for the 5-10 years it might take to build a decent side!

I ask your title again.... is there anyone out there who can tell me where & how they will immediately find 80 or 40 players to produce competitive teams in a short time frame?

 

[Luc]

Reduce the numbers on field to 16, and cut lists by 2.

32 players available instantly.

(tongue partly in cheek)

 

[Funkalicous]

I ask your title again.... is there anyone out there who can tell me where & how they will immediately find 80 or 40 players to produce competitive teams in a short time frame?

I think this is as big a challenge as any for the AFL. I also think they're going the right way about it though. Starting from this year, they need to nurse a side through the AFLQ. Let them start with all that Under 16 talent that's in QLD and give them national draft picks as well. By 2011 the foundations of a promising young side will be there. They would then need to use their draft concessions to lure some experienced players. Probably won't stop them from being easy beats, but they shouldn't be in the cellar for too long.

As for Western Sydney.....

 

[Corpuscles]

I think this is as big a challenge as any for the AFL. I also think they're going the right way about it though. Starting from this year, they need to nurse a side through the AFLQ. Let them start with all that Under 16 talent that's in QLD and give them national draft picks as well. By 2011 the foundations of a promising young side will be there. They would then need to use their draft concessions to lure some experienced players. Probably won't stop them from being easy beats, but they shouldn't be in the cellar for too long.

As for Western Sydney.....

Thanks for the input , probably agree the only way and they would have to start right now!!!



Exactly, the only way
Freo - entered was start basically with a full Claremont side plus major concessions with already footy mad state, with experienced local administrators and backing of a state league. Still up & down like yo-yo's
Port - One of the most successful football clubs in the world who obviously "planted" hid a lot of young talent away from draft and had a huge go home factor with concessions (Wanganeen, Buckley tempted!, etc etc) also footy mad state, with experienced local administrators and backing of a state league

BUT

Bears- (now defunct) Struggled for years and years... even had to change the damaged "brand"...until super major concessions able to pick over the carcass of Fitzroy

Even a NRL club folded on GC!

The whole expansion question fascinates me as does what extent of research and planning haveAFL done? I just get the impression it is all just a fantasy concept without anyone really working out the hows!?

 

[A Living God]

Look for about 30, 19 - 24 years old playing in the various semi - professional leagues willing to move to the Gold Coast and play in the QSL for a year or two to gain a shot at playing in the AFL. I reckon their are plenty of people who would of made decent AFL players had they been given the chance. The new Gold Coast club would need to find jobs for them, most of them would be tradies so that shouldn't be to difficult.

For the 2010 drafts the Gold Coast team be given 15 - 20 picks for the National draft and 10 picks for the pre-season draft to recruit out of contract players from the AFL clubs.

 

[Corpuscles]

Look for about 30, 19 - 24 years old playing in the various semi - professional leagues willing to move to the Gold Coast and play in the QSL for a year or two to gain a shot at playing in the AFL. I reckon their are plenty of people who would of made decent AFL players had they been given the chance. The new Gold Coast club would need to find jobs for them, most of them would be tradies so that shouldn't be to difficult.

For the 2010 drafts the Gold Coast team be given 15 - 20 picks for the National draft and 10 picks for the pre-season draft to recruit out of contract players from the AFL clubs.

Yeah OK seems the way it will go!... be pretty poor-average team for a long time though! But we agree on GC as AFLQ is reasonably strong .

How many of the concession draft picks will do a "N Buckley et al" go home or get a better offer after 2 years?

But I reckon you would need more than 30 perhaps 50+ to find the nuggets, and they would need more assurance or incentive$ to relocate than a "maybe" chance! Need to pay relocation bonus once off say $20,000 Plus Salary min $50K+ pa till entry to AFL.

Many you speak of would be getting close to that already from VFL SANFL or WAFL already, and able to work, with no expectation pressure

Do you really think a 22-24 yr old trady can do the professional development to get to elite AFL fitness and skill level .... part time after work?



Now try applying formula to WS!?????

 

[Papa G]

Kangaroos fall over - GC get to pick at the carcass, plus some minimal concessions.

Melbourne and Bulldogs merge - West Sydney and West Melbourne get to pick up the players over the 2 lists, plus some minimal concessions.

Simplest and best option. Option preffered by AFL. Best option for the league.

 

[Belnakor]

uh if the Kangas fell over they would have to create 3 teams then - they want 9 games a round.

 

[Pessimistic]

They will create one tam at a time each over a 3-4 year period (with 3-4 yrs between the debuts)

If a team participates in 2-3 drafts they can collect 40-50 players quite easily, with 8-12 top ten draftees

of the other 30-40, say 2/3 are 3-5 yr type players. So they have a solid list of 40 youngsters who will start to give returns 2 yrs after the club begins competing (a bit like port adelaide)

Also in the maentime you allow the other clubs lists to increase by 2 each year so there are 4-6 extra on each list times 16 lists - the new club can then trade its first years draft picks or existing youngsters to clubs for experienced players - the new team can also pick up uncontracted when lists are trimmed again after the team launches

 

[Palace03]

Give the new side a set time frame to sign out of contract players (without trading picks), capping at 12-15 and no more than 2 from any 1 team.

Once this period ends appoint a panel to determine fair compensation (draft picks) for the clubs who lost players. These picks wouldn't be taken from anyone, they wood be just added to the the start of a particular round like a PP pick.

Allow the new team to add as many non-AFL listed players as they wish to the list.

Give the new side 2 picks in each round of the draft the year prior to entering the competition and allow them to trade these picks for more AFL players during the trade period the year before they enter, under the same constraints as the other clubs.

Which ever method is used it's not going to be fair for everyone else, this is one way I can see the new team be given a leg up without punishing existing teams too much.

 

[zero]

look, the question of "where do you find 80 players to make two competitive teams immediately" is totally wrong, with the player movement restictions in the AFL its impossible, unless you relax the rules for one year and allow raiding, and that wont happen because the clubs will reiwoltd.... sorry i mean revolt. hehe

what you are actually aiming for is a side that is competitive and a finals side in year 3. they take part in the draft the year before they join and play in a lower league, then the draft before their first year. they have serious concessions in every draft and PSD, and zone concessions too. and can trade them for established players

so by the time they play their first AFL game they have participated in 2 AFL drafts, have taken all the promising local juniors, topped them up with players from the PSD on short contracts to fill the gaps in the first couple of years, and have done a bit of horsetrading to get some established talent.

it takes 5 years to build a list in the AFL, and the currency is national, rookie and PSD draft concessions, and lots of zone selections.

 

[Supermercado]

Simplest and best option. Option preffered by AFL. Best option for the league.

You've had a look at the secret documents then?

 

[ratsac_jones]

in my bum whole

 

[acker]

Sydney, Brisbane and the Gold Coast.

Thanks to Aussie Rules investing ground up in it's competition unlike Rugby League and Rugby Union. Like a good beer they will be ready on tap when you need them.

I suppose both Rugby codes will scour the Pacific Islands. As Tonga and Samoa are falling under the the Aussie Rules spell, I suppose Tahiti is next and Argentina afterwards.

 

[Diamond Joe]

look, the question of "where do you find 80 players to make two competitive teams immediately" is totally wrong, with the player movement restictions in the AFL its impossible, unless you relax the rules for one year and allow raiding, and that wont happen because the clubs will reiwoltd.... sorry i mean revolt.

Gold

 

[Diamond Joe]

Give the new side a set time frame to sign out of contract players (without trading picks), capping at 12-15 and no more than 2 from any 1 team.

Once this period ends appoint a panel to determine fair compensation (draft picks) for the clubs who lost players. These picks wouldn't be taken from anyone, they wood be just added to the the start of a particular round like a PP pick.

Allow the new team to add as many non-AFL listed players as they wish to the list.

Give the new side 2 picks in each round of the draft the year prior to entering the competition and allow them to trade these picks for more AFL players during the trade period the year before they enter, under the same constraints as the other clubs.

Which ever method is used it's not going to be fair for everyone else, this is one way I can see the new team be given a leg up without punishing existing teams too much.

Easily the best suggestion on this thread thus far

 

[Diamond Joe]

Kangaroos fall over - GC get to pick at the carcass, plus some minimal concession... Simplest and best option. Option preffered by AFL.

Without going into your claims regarding Melbourne/Bulldogs, I too believe that this is the AFL's plan. They genuinely seem to believe that North won't survive (especially as the AFL will do all in its power to ensure this will happen) and are simply putting on a show at the moment. They are quite happy with 16 teams and Western Sydney will only truly be a priority once another club (the Roos are still firmly the AFL's number one target) become killable.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

In Victoria. We already provide more than half the players, os its logical we'd have more than half the clubs too.

 

[A Living God]

In Victoria. We already provide more than half the players, os its logical we'd have more than half the clubs too.

Actually 47% (334 out of 704) of AFL players are Victorian.

 

[Cap]

i would have thought a number of players will come from SANFL,VFL and WAFL ???

i was just saying on the crow board that perhaps the AFL should look at arranging a number scholarship players in the state which will be aligned to the NSW team (and the same thing in QLD) to enable the teams to at least start up with some promising youngster that come from their state instead of being like the Swans and the Bears with the teams being transplanted victorians

 

[zero]

Actually 47% (334 out of 704) of AFL players are Victorian.

well, i guess according to SweetLeftFoots logic, Victoria should have LESS than half the clubs....

 

[Pessimistic]

OK lets have 20 clubs.

Actuallt footy is one game where all levels are reasonably enjoyable

 

[ChrisFooty]

The Western Sydney team coming one year after the Gold Coast team is insane. The only way you can get 40 or 80 players straight away is the new teams raiding the existing clubs. Finishing in the bottom four during the years the new teams are coming in might be horrible, as the they will not get the high draft picks.

Very interesting to see how this will be done.

 

[jackmac7]

Without going into your claims regarding Melbourne/Bulldogs, I too believe that this is the AFL's plan. They genuinely seem to believe that North won't survive (especially as the AFL will do all in its power to ensure this will happen) and are simply putting on a show at the moment. They are quite happy with 16 teams and Western Sydney will only truly be a priority once another club (the Roos are still firmly the AFL's number one target) become killable.

But what about Demetriou going on about Expansion during that conference the whole time. He said Victorian clubs wouldn't go so they would expand and now they have $$$$$$$$ signs in their eyes for the next TV rights deal. Anyway the AFL are already planning and spending for the new franchise so it's to late for the Kangas to say we're broke, do you still have that ticket to the Gold Coast for us.