Which coach is under the most pressure for 2018?

[Sir_Loin]

Whilst definitely not the most under pressure. If Dimma don't make finals next year will they really keep him on another 5yrs?

We kinda did a reverse Geelong when it comes to Dimma and Scott. We kept losing finals then won one, Scott won one and keeps losing finals. Which one would I pick going forward hmmmmm?

 

[beema limapep]

I agree with the sentiment that our progress stalled in 2017 and we did not recruit a 'big fish' as planned. I have some reservations about his coaching, as much as he is a great bloke who has done good work in stabilising the club after Watters era.

Should have gone after big fish like Hartung. Just ask North fans how much he'll improve their side

 

[markm106]

I still think Buckley. Another poor year and surely he can’t keep going.

After Ports finals performance and subsequent recruitment I think Hinkley would also feel the heat.

Simpson’s should be fine as I expect WC are prepared to drop a little. However a big drop and he’ll feel the pressure.

Saints missing finals could see Richardson under pressure. However another near miss and he should be fine. Especially with a few experienced players retiring.

You’d expect Giants to make the GF. A poor year and Cameron will be under the pump.

 

[aussierulesrules]

In 2016 you were 9th, last year you were 11th. Based on what we saw last year you went backwards.

Only if you look at it in an extremely simplistic way and basically only go by ladder position, while completely ignoring things like each clubs fixture for the season and how much other teams improved compared to us, etc.

You haven't improved in your last 3 years.

Yes we have, IMO.

In 2014 we came last, and after the losses of Lenny Hayes (off a 2nd in the B&F) and 3 others who were mostly best 22 at the end of that year, we were tipped by some to not even win a game the following year, yet we improved significantly, and didn't even finish in the bottom 4, then the following year we took a big step forward again- winning 12 games and moving up to 9th, finishing two wins clear of the next team- albeit off a very easy draw, our easiest one in years, and probably the easiest one in the comp.

Then last season, off a significantly more difficult draw (rated 3rd hardest by Champion Data going into the season, for instance, compared to the 18th hardest or so they from memory rated our draw the previous year), we finished with a better percentage than the year before, and only won one less game.

Biggest loss in 2017- 61 points
Biggest losses in 2016- 103 points, 88 points, 70 points

Lowest score in 2017- 50 points
Lowest scores in 2016- 29 points, 36 points, 45 points

Interstate in 2016- 0 wins, 5 losses, by an average of 53.4 points
Interstate in 2017- 2 wins (by an average of 42 points), 4 losses, by an average of 30 points. (2 of which we could have so easily won, against teams who made the finals- one we led for the first 113 minutes and the other we led by 10 points, inside the last 70 seconds).

We were a better team last season than we were in 2016, being harder to beat, in games for longer, and vastly improved interstate, but had a much harder draw, and just didn't improve as much as some of the other teams who finished below us in 2016 did (in particular Richmond, Port and Essendon, who went from below us in 2016 to playing finals in '17).

Hence my belief that Richo isn't under much pressure. In particular as we've improved in each of our last 3 years and have one of the youngest and least experienced lists in the comp.

Basically the only reason he might be under pressure is because his team exceeded expectations in 2015 and 2016, but fell short of them last season (while still IMO improving).

If that's a guy under pressure, there isn't much pressure going around (ie. the pressure equivalent of a slow news day)!

 

[aussierulesrules]

Where do you feel he sits amongst other coaches in this discussion? Contract extension and young squad not withstanding, the outside perception is that he’s been there a while and the time to make the jump into the 8 is now.

Hopefully I've answered it to a fair degree above. If Richo is high up, there ain't much of it going around!

Given where we've come from (our list was in horrid shape a few years back, then we started rebuilding it through the compromised drafts- with no bargain father-son picks or anything like that- and then in Richo's first year we had our "worst year of injuries in our club's history"), and how some were tipping us to not even win a game the next year, 2015, I'm not sure how much more Richo is expected to have done over the last 3 years in particular, as we improved significantly and above expectations in the first two of those years (moved up 4 spots in '15 and 5 in '16), and then last season we fairly clearly improved again, IMO, as evidenced by a bunch of those numbers above. Just not as much as hoped, or expected.

But that's hardly a hanging offense, as it's not his fault we had a much harder draw, that other teams improved more, and that 6 of the top 11 in our B&F from the year before had significantly worse seasons (including 2 of the top 3), mostly as a result of injuries and retirements. All 6 of whom were over 25yo, which meant it became a transition year, where we went from being a team largely reliant on the older brigade winning games for us, to the younger ones being far more responsible for most of our wins. Which is exactly what we wanted and needed. Apparently the top 10 in our B&F were the 4th or 5th youngest B&F top 10 in the comp, as evidence of that.

We and he are going OK. Just because we're not taking big leaps forward every single year doesn't mean we're not going in the right direction, or need drastic change. Improvement is far from always linear.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Only if you look at it in an extremely simplistic way and basically only go by ladder position, while completely ignoring things like each clubs fixture for the season and how much other teams improved compared to us, etc.

Yes we have, IMO.

In 2014 we came last, and after the losses of Lenny Hayes (off a 2nd in the B&F) and 3 others who were mostly best 22 at the end of that year, we were tipped by some to not even win a game the following year, yet we improved significantly, and didn't even finish in the bottom 4, then the following year we took a big step forward again- winning 12 games and moving up to 9th, finishing two wins clear of the next team- albeit off a very easy draw, our easiest one in years, and probably the easiest one in the comp.

Then last season, off a significantly more difficult draw (rated 3rd hardest by Champion Data going into the season, for instance, compared to the 18th hardest or so they from memory rated our draw the previous year), we finished with a better percentage than the year before, and only won one less game.

Biggest loss in 2017- 61 points
Biggest losses in 2016- 103 points, 88 points, 70 points

Lowest score in 2017- 50 points
Lowest scores in 2016- 29 points, 36 points, 45 points

Interstate in 2016- 0 wins, 5 losses, by an average of 53.4 points
Interstate in 2017- 2 wins (by an average of 42 points), 4 losses, by an average of 30 points. (2 of which we could have so easily won, against teams who made the finals- one we led for the first 113 minutes and the other we led by 10 points, inside the last 70 seconds).

We were a better team last season than we were in 2016, being harder to beat, in games for longer, and vastly improved interstate, but had a much harder draw, and just didn't improve as much as some of the other teams who finished below us in 2016 did (in particular Richmond, Port and Essendon, who went from below us in 2016 to playing finals in '17).

Hence my belief that Richo isn't under much pressure. In particular as we've improved in each of our last 3 years and have one of the youngest and least experienced lists in the comp.

Basically the only reason he might be under pressure is because his team exceeded expectations in 2015 and 2016, but fell short of them last season (while still IMO improving).

If that's a guy under pressure, there isn't much pressure going around (ie. the pressure equivalent of a slow news day)!

Whats the real expectation for saints next year

 

[demondavey]

Only if you look at it in an extremely simplistic way and basically only go by ladder position, while completely ignoring things like each clubs fixture for the season and how much other teams improved compared to us, etc.

Yes we have, IMO.

In 2014 we came last, and after the losses of Lenny Hayes (off a 2nd in the B&F) and 3 others who were mostly best 22 at the end of that year, we were tipped by some to not even win a game the following year, yet we improved significantly, and didn't even finish in the bottom 4, then the following year we took a big step forward again- winning 12 games and moving up to 9th, finishing two wins clear of the next team- albeit off a very easy draw, our easiest one in years, and probably the easiest one in the comp.

Then last season, off a significantly more difficult draw (rated 3rd hardest by Champion Data going into the season, for instance, compared to the 18th hardest or so they from memory rated our draw the previous year), we finished with a better percentage than the year before, and only won one less game.

Biggest loss in 2017- 61 points
Biggest losses in 2016- 103 points, 88 points, 70 points

Lowest score in 2017- 50 points
Lowest scores in 2016- 29 points, 36 points, 45 points

Interstate in 2016- 0 wins, 5 losses, by an average of 53.4 points
Interstate in 2017- 2 wins (by an average of 42 points), 4 losses, by an average of 30 points. (2 of which we could have so easily won, against teams who made the finals- one we led for the first 113 minutes and the other we led by 10 points, inside the last 70 seconds).

We were a better team last season than we were in 2016, being harder to beat, in games for longer, and vastly improved interstate, but had a much harder draw, and just didn't improve as much as some of the other teams who finished below us in 2016 did (in particular Richmond, Port and Essendon, who went from below us in 2016 to playing finals in '17).

Hence my belief that Richo isn't under much pressure. In particular as we've improved in each of our last 3 years and have one of the youngest and least experienced lists in the comp.

Basically the only reason he might be under pressure is because his team exceeded expectations in 2015 and 2016, but fell short of them last season (while still IMO improving).

If that's a guy under pressure, there isn't much pressure going around (ie. the pressure equivalent of a slow news day)!

Look that's a fair summation, I think you really impressive in 2016, and I thought you'd play finals last year to be honest. Looking from ladder position it was a step back for sure. But what differed then? Why did you drop back in 2017? Do you really think it was the draw?

 

[kaiserchief13]

Top 5 in no order - Alan Richardson, Nathan Buckley, Ken Hinkley, Simon Goodwin & Leon Cameron

Gone if:

Miss top 4: Cameron
Miss top 8: Richardson, Goodwin, Hinkley
Finish bottom 4: Buckley as crazy as it sounds he has to do so bad for them to get rid of him

 

[BrutThough]

Look that's a fair summation, I think you really impressive in 2016, and I thought you'd play finals last year to be honest. Looking from ladder position it was a step back for sure. But what differed then? Why did you drop back in 2017? Do you really think it was the draw?

As simple as it sounds, our horrendous goal kicking is largely to blame for the drop in 2017. There were other issues which need addressed and other areas we need improve, but simply if we had kicked at a competent level we would have made finals.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Whilst definitely not the most under pressure. If Dimma don't make finals next year will they really keep him on another 5yrs?

You can't make this shit up.lol

 

[Snake_Baker]

Buckley should be a mile ahead of anyone else, but McGuire seems to have the Collingwood members hypnotized.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Surely that excuse isn’t going to cut it when they have fourth oldest and third most experienced squad in the league. Buckley takes ownership of this rebuild. It’s his team now. If they are short on quality at both ends that’s for him to work around.

Collingwood need to play finals, surely. It’s a matter of whether Buckley will continue to get kissed on the dick by those above him if they fail to do so.

Great post! On the bolded it is him and his coaching panel, from the website there are changes taking place at the Holden centre regarding this among a myriad of other things. They're no longer sitting on their hands hoping in desperation.

IMV, externally nobody apart from the diehard faithful expects any reasonable success and therefore the pressure is not on Bucks

 

[Duskfire]

If GWS don’t at least win a prelim surely ther would be grumblings. With the sheer amount of talent Cameron has at his disposal they should be shitting it in

 

[Colonial]

If GWS don’t at least win a prelim surely ther would be grumblings. With the sheer amount of talent Cameron has at his disposal they should be shitting it in

There would be questions

But as we are under the cap no we shouldnt be "shitting" it in.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Beerfish]

Worsfold.

From his wife.

Apparently.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Whats the real expectation for saints next year

From who?

 

[Gavin Excell]

From who?

Fans perhaps?

Time is now

Saints should be planning on finals

 

[aussierulesrules]

Look that's a fair summation, I think you really impressive in 2016, and I thought you'd play finals last year to be honest. Looking from ladder position it was a step back for sure. But what differed then? Why did you drop back in 2017? Do you really think it was the draw?

Well our draw was much more difficult (our 2016 one was the easiest one we'd had in years and years), which is why those figures I posted above show a lot of evidence that we were a better team in 2017 than we were in 2016, yet finished a couple of spots lower on the ladder, and the other main reason was that it was an incredibly even season, and some of the teams who finished below us in 2016 simply improved by much more than we did this year, such as Essendon (who got half their team back and had the wooden spoon draw to go with it), Richmond, who obviously bounced back extremely hard, and Port also bounced back into the finals, while you guys also improved by more than we did, while only two teams who finished above us in 2016 took big steps backwards into the bottom 8, in North and Hawthorn.

We obviously didn't improve as much as we did the two years prior, but I think those figures I posted above are a good amount of evidence that we did improve.

In 2017 we were reportedly no.1 in the comp for tackles differential, no.2 for forward 50 tackles (behind only Richmond), no.3 for clearance differential, equal-4th for scoring shots (and reportedly from the 2nd-easiest spots on the ground to shoot from) and 5th for marks inside-50, so we were doing a lot right, and more than in 2016, but as Brut said above, our kicking for goal is pretty much where it all fell down, far too often- ranked 17th for accuracy, despite our shots being from the 2nd-easiest spots on the ground (according to Champion Data), which shows just how terrible it was and how easy a lot of the shots we were missing were.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Fans perhaps?

Time is now

Saints should be planning on finals

We most certainly would be, no doubt about that, we were last season. But if it doesn't happen it will hardly be a disgrace, given that the simple fact is that we're one of the very least experienced and youngest teams in the comp, and have one of the hardest draws. That is generally not a mixture for a team making the finals, so if we do so in spite of all that it will actually be a hell of an effort. Something that I have no doubt is well within our reach, but a lot will have to go right for it to happen, with probably 12 or 13 other clubs believing just as strongly that they can play finals this year.

 

[Gavin Excell]

We most certainly would be, no doubt about that, we were last season. But if it doesn't happen it will hardly be a disgrace, given that the simple fact is that we're one of the very least experienced and youngest teams in the comp, and have one of the hardest draws. That is generally not a mixture for a team making the finals, so if we do so in spite of all that it will actually be a hell of an effort. Something that I have no doubt is well within our reach, but a lot will have to go right for it to happen, with probably 12 or 13 other clubs believing just as strongly that they can play finals this year.

Almost 50% of teams make the 8

Its not that Herculean an effort. You seem over eager to be not too demanding

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Buckley is under the most, but also probably one of the safest due to his president being a Fanboy.

The locals down at the cattery might not stomach another so-so year from Chris Scott, especially seeing as he's been topping up to win a flag for the last 3 seasons and can't get passed the Prelims.

 

[master bate]

Safe: Clarkson, Bevo, Hardwick, Pyke
Secure: Fagan, Dew

I really think any of the next 10 could go if things went drastically wrong but there's also a lot of contract extensions in this group and there's a chance most of these teams meet baseline expectations and things don't change for 12 months.

Seemingly content with challenging: Longmire, Chris Scott, Cameron
Reasonably safe but club expecting results: Goodwin, Worsfold, Hinkley, Richardson
Comfortable rebuilding: Bolton, Lyon, Brad Scott
On the hot seat: Simpson Buckley

 

[mellowyellow]

What a difference a season makes and when every other team fell in a Bradbury orchestrated dance

Hardwick safer then fort Knox now

 

[paddymac321]

Bolton would be under pressure especially if Carlton does not progress offensively in 2018.

Carlton two best players from 2017 are no longer available and Bolton has not been guaranteed a contract extension.

Think he would need a contract before he could be offered a contract extension.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Very interesting year coming up. Besides the newly appointed coaches in Dew and Fagan, only Clarko, Pyke and Dimma would feel safe. Around a dozen coaches will be feeling the pinch to perform next season. Which makes for a very interesting season.

Buckley shouldn't have a job, so indeed he should be under the most pressure. Richo for mine is also under the pump to perform. With what I feel has been a really talented list, can he take them further than a middle of the road side? If the Dogs slide further down, the unthinkable could happen with Bevo! Leon Cameron will be having some sleepless nights as well. Coaching the Rolls Royce of the AFL, yet we're still unsure whether he can drive it!!

Hinkley is on his last legs as well. Everyone feels their list has improved, made finals last year however struggled to beat any decent sides. Finals or bust for Ken. And another poor season by Freo surely sees the end of Ross Lyon!! Goodwin although I feel is one of the safest, will be looking up the Centrelink number if the Dees finish bottom 4. Same with Bolton. Carlton simply have to start climbing the ladder. And with all the teams around them improving, it might not happen unless solid performing teams like Sydney, West Coast and Geelong start to finally slide,which will see their long serving coaches under pressure. Great season coming up!!