Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth? Part 2

[BIGHAWK23]

Why has Curtain not been playing?????

 

[Philhawk]

Kudos to the Crows. I really like what they’re building. Playing a great brand.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Can we add Pies, Blues and Essendon into this thread?

 

[SSSSSS]

North really is just Sheezel or bust at this point. He was hampered by injury and they got completely run over by a trash West Coast.

I think it's fair to say Hawthorn and Adelaide have graduated out of this thread after two solid seasons.

Should replace Hawthorn and Adelaide with Richmond and West Coast.

I'd have North ahead on that count although they did start their rebuild five years earlier.

 

[Sphynx]

North really is just Sheezel or bust at this point. He was hampered by injury and they got completely run over by a trash West Coast.

I think it's fair to say Hawthorn and Adelaide have graduated out of this thread after two solid seasons.

Should replace Hawthorn and Adelaide with Richmond and West Coast.

I'd have North ahead on that count although they did start their rebuild five years earlier.

What a moronic comment.

 

[SSSSSS]

What a moronic comment.

Who stepped up for Sheezel on one leg for half a game? The poor bloke laid 7 tackles himself. The only bloke on the field who has the right idea of not kicking it directly to McGovern every chance he has the ball.

LDU, Simpkin and Powell had 5 tackles between them.

He's a generational talent and he needs help. Another year of what is likely going to be sub-4 wins and a percentage in the 60s (which will be a regression based on 2023).

When are things going to change at North?

 

[Sphynx]

Who stepped up for Sheezel on one leg for half a game? The poor bloke laid 7 tackles himself. The only bloke on the field who has the right idea of not kicking it directly to McGovern every chance he has the ball.

LDU, Simpkin and Powell had 5 tackles between them.

He's a generational talent and he needs help. Another year of what is likely going to be sub-4 wins and a percentage in the 60s (which will be a regression based on 2023).

When are things going to change at North?

The bloke that had 30 disposals, 12 tackles and 13 clearances and the 2nd best performance of anyone this round?

Don’t back track on the comment.

Sheezel is the 3rd highest rated player at North this season, so by definition it’s not him or bust.

 

[SSSSSS]

The bloke that had 30 disposals, 12 tackles and 13 clearances and the 2nd best performance of anyone this round?

Don’t back track on the comment.

Sheezel is the 3rd highest rated player at North this season, so by definition it’s not him or bust.

Xerri's been great. Probably gets the AA spot if the selectors had brains. Still think his tap work needs improving but he's improved out of sight so I won't put it past him to refine further. I don't think having your ruckman getting the ball 30 times and 13 clearances is ideal though. I'd much prefer that distributed to ideally your better, more skillful players (usually your midfielders).

If games and premierships are won off player ratings you would think North would have a competent playing list capable of winning more than 3 games a season by now. It wasn't that long ago you had the 'data guru' Glen Luff as your list manager.

 

[Sphynx]

Xerri's been great. Probably gets the AA spot if the selectors had brains. Still think his tap work needs improving but he's improved out of sight so I won't put it past him to refine further. I don't think having your ruckman getting the ball 30 times and 13 clearances is ideal though. I'd much prefer that distributed to ideally your better, more skillful players (usually your midfielders).

If games and premierships are won off player ratings you would think North would have a competent playing list capable of winning more than 3 games a season by now. It wasn't that long ago you had the 'data guru' Glen Luff as your list manager.

Nice deflection.

 

[SSSSSS]

Nice deflection.

What's there to deflect?

Which other midfielder stood up against the power house that is the West Coast Eagles at your home ground? Who was defensively responsible for Yeo who kicked two goals in the last quarter?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Xerri's been great. Probably gets the AA spot if the selectors had brains. Still think his tap work needs improving but he's improved out of sight so I won't put it past him to refine further. I don't think having your ruckman getting the ball 30 times and 13 clearances is ideal though. I'd much prefer that distributed to ideally your better, more skillful players (usually your midfielders).

If games and premierships are won off player ratings you would think North would have a competent playing list capable of winning more than 3 games a season by now. It wasn't that long ago you had the 'data guru' Glen Luff as your list manager.

He’s been good but I agree, I prefer other rucks who are better at tap work, same reason I don’t rate Rowan Marshall all that highly.

 

[Sphynx]

He’s been good but I agree, I prefer other rucks who are better at tap work, same reason I don’t rate Rowan Marshall all that highly.

Ahh yes that 2% to advantage difference is totally better than 6-7 tackles a game and a mountain of clearances and disposals and general physical impact around the contest.

 

[Spud11]

Ahh yes that 2% to advantage difference is totally better than 6-7 tackles a game, a mountain of clearances and disposals.

We’re a disgrace but nobody can argue against these merits of Xerri you’ve pointed out. He’s surprised everyone. I wasn’t a believer. If you asked me last year, I would’ve kept a 50 year old Goldy over X, but he’s blown me away this year.

 

[Sphynx]

What's there to deflect?

Which other midfielder stood up against the power house that is the West Coast Eagles at your home ground? Who was defensively responsible for Yeo who kicked two goals in the last quarter?

Powell?

He had 26 touches, 6 clearances, 9 score involvements, kicked 2 and a goal assist?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Ahh yes that 2% to advantage difference is totally better than 6-7 tackles a game and a mountain of clearances and disposals and general physical impact around the contest.

Huh? I’m just saying as a player I don’t rate either Marshall or Xerri highly comparatively to others? In due course to their tap work being average.

 

[Sphynx]

Huh? I’m just saying as a player I don’t rate either Marshall or Xerri highly comparatively to others? In due course to their tap work being average.

You can't justify that though can you? You bust out stats to suit yourself when needed but ignore it the other way.

Xerri has a 25% to advantage rate and a 43% hitout win rate.

It's only just behind someone like Gawn.

Marshall has a 36% win rate and averages 26 hitouts a game.


North is also one of the best clearance teams in the comp, so how does that work exactly?

 

[5minutes_of_Dew]

I'm bullish on North for 2025.

I also think the round 2024 clash against them in Tassie poses more of a threat than some may like to admit.

I think it's unlikely North will win, but I do think Clarko will get the team up to potentially spoil a fairytale finals story for our mob.

I think all 3 clubs are trending in the right direction.

The crows need to retire Tex and let the next generation take over. 2025 should be finals.

Hawks will top up the defensive stocks and should have a good crack at finals again in 2025.

North should be pushing to get out of the bottom 4 next year. I could see them finishing above West Coast and Richmond.

 

[Nutjob]

I'm bullish on North for 2025.

I also think the round 2024 clash against them in Tassie poses more of a threat than some may like to admit.

I think it's unlikely North will win, but I do think Clarko will get the team up to potentially spoil a fairytale finals story for our mob.

I think all 3 clubs are trending in the right direction.

The crows need to retire Tex and let the next generation take over. 2025 should be finals.

Hawks will top up the defensive stocks and should have a good crack at finals again in 2025.

North should be pushing to get out of the bottom 4 next year. I could see them finishing above West Coast and Richmond.

This is the best summary I have seen on a thread that has gone on far too long.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Cleric]

Issue with the Crows is depth.
Our first line side is scary good.
Forward line of:
Fog, Thillthorpe, Rankine, Rochele, Pedler and Keays.
Backline of :
Michaelanny, Murray, Nankervis, Butts, Curtin, Keane, Hinge and Worrell.
Midfield is under rated with :
Dawson, Sig, Berry, Dowling and a couple of oldies who will move out like Crouch, Laird and Smith.

We just don't have a ton of experienced depth to cover. So, when we lost Rankine, Thillthorpe, Pedler, Murray, Worrell, Milera, we just can't cover it, and we lost games.

As for what we need, we need a couple of strong, powerful mids in the Dawson mold that can break lines and run out of the centre square.
We need a rebounding defender in the mold of Brodie Smith

33

Brodie Smith

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

500.1

5star

D

17.1

4star

K

12.6

5star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

438.9

5star

D

17.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.6

5star

or Seedsman.
And last, we need a young good ruck, as ROB and Strachan are both 30 next year, and I as sure as shlt don't want Thilthorpe to be used in there.

The Crows built their team from the spine out. They priorities key position players, small forwards and defenders.
North did the opposite in going for mids to start the rebuild. They have a good group of those, they just lack the spine.

I would say in the Crows defence, it's harder to find a key position forward like Thilthorpe, or a small like Rankine, or a defender like Curtin, than it is to find a good midfielder.

 

[Philhawk]

Carlton are the unfortunate cautionary tale as to the merits of stocking young talent without attempting to instill any sort of culture of winning inside the four walls of a football club.

I see so many unfortunate similarities between them and this young Roos team as it stands.

North will prob get an amazing young mid with pick 1 or 2 this year. They’ll be (rightfully) excited about the promise of their young midfield.

But it means nothing if they don’t start winning. Guys like Cripps, Kruezer, Weitering, Murphy and Walsh have/had just as much talent and promise as Wardlaw, Sheezel and others, but perennial losing has left an indelible mark on their career and their prospects of winning silverware in the future.

North need a minimum of 6-8 wins next year, otherwise the cycle will only repeat itself.

 

[5minutes_of_Dew]

I still look back to the year that North forced Boomer to retire along with Dal Santo, Petrie and Firrito, as they year they cooked their culture.

I just read an article 10 mins ago about Gunston wanting to play on in 2025 and how if he was needed to play at Box Hill to assist with development that he would do so happily.

That's what the old heads are around for. You can't gut lists like that and expect to succeed.

It was a lot like when Melbourne gut all the experience out of their list as well and then tried to bring a few old heads from other clubs in once they realised they cut too deep.

North's senior leadership was lacking for years. Clarko obviously recognised it too because he brought Shiels across, who is no world beater. But he would be working his ass off on the track and setting standards.

 

[OhhhhhCyril]

All 3 teams have some serious elite kids coming through. I don't think there is a correct answer.

 

[Disco Dew]

All 3 teams have some serious elite kids coming through. I don't think there is a correct answer.

Only if we aren’t being resultist.




Brad Scott likes this

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You can't justify that though can you? You bust out stats to suit yourself when needed but ignore it the other way.

Xerri has a 25% to advantage rate and a 43% hitout win rate.

It's only just behind someone like Gawn.

Marshall has a 36% win rate and averages 26 hitouts a game.


North is also one of the best clearance teams in the comp, so how does that work exactly?

His hitouts winrate and overall numbers are good 34 hitouts (43%) but 25% for HTA is poor.

Marshall even worse with 26 hitouts (37%) but 24.5% for HTA.

Good hitout rucks tend to have HTA rates of closer to 30 and above. Numbers aren’t easiest to measure in this case.

But anyone who watches Xerri and Marshall will know their game isn’t built off of being strong at giving first use and that’s okay.

 

[Eatosk]

Carlton are the unfortunate cautionary tale as to the merits of stocking young talent without attempting to instill any sort of culture of winning inside the four walls of a football club.

I see so many unfortunate similarities between them and this young Roos team as it stands.

North will prob get an amazing young mid with pick 1 or 2 this year. They’ll be (rightfully) excited about the promise of their young midfield.

But it means nothing if they don’t start winning. Guys like Cripps, Kruezer, Weitering, Murphy and Walsh have/had just as much talent and promise as Wardlaw, Sheezel and others, but perennial losing has left an indelible mark on their career and their prospects of winning silverware in the future.

North need a minimum of 6-8 wins next year, otherwise the cycle will only repeat itself.

Yep agree. We need to start rising up the ladder and quickly. I thought 6-7 wins was fair for this year. The way we are going hanging around the bottom 2 each year, we’ll end up having a starting 18 full of top end draft picks that can’t win. If 2025 ends up being like this year, then it’s time to pack us up, the supporters are getting really tired of losing each week.