Whinging Brisbane

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anna

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Feb 25, 2001
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Australia
Firstly I am a Brisbane member but........
I am so sick of us whinging and making excuses for not winning.
Please sir I have to travel too much.
Not a week goes by and we don't have the coach in the media bleating about something. We are such a negative club. No wonder our players are soft, oh dear I am so tired, I have travelled sooooo much. Mal Michael says he can't believe how much he has travelled this year.
I want them to shut up. Get tough,get on with the bloody job. Although I suppose its a bit hard when the footy department seems to openly talk about it and use it as an excuse constantly for losing.
We knew the draw last year, knew where the cards fell,so why whinge and whinge about it.
Pathetic Brisbane.
I know the usual suspects will come out and bag me ( from brisbane ), but be honest guys wouldn't you like us to just cop it sweet and not whinge so much.
 
Originally posted by anna:
I know the usual suspects will come out and bag me ( from brisbane ), but be honest guys wouldn't you like us to just cop it sweet and not whinge so much.
Click to expand...

Yes. Maybe we could learn to kick straight while we're at it too. It's all about professionalism. Do your job and do it damn well. Whether you're travelling or you're at home. Good teams play well anywhere and rarely mention travel.
 
Yes a good point & I am embarressed by all the excuses & U turns.

Vossey was in the paper this morning saying it was necessary for a bit of team spirit to fire up the passion etc etc.

Get out there & fire up!
 

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As far as I see it, Brisbane are going to be fighting from behind the 8-ball for a while yet, if they can't change the mental attitude of the players.

But really, how can you just "change" someone's attitude? A lot of it is ingrained in the very nature of the club - right from the supporters to the players, and even to the media coverage that the team gets.

I have 6 points to make (IMO). I'm not saying they're entirely accurate - but I'm putting them up for discussion, at least.

Point 1.

Brisbane are always going to have to take the soft option as a club, in regards to recruiting players. For instance, guys who come from other states - the club is practically forced to sign them up on long-term lucrative contracts, either that or lose them. Players are therefore in a comfort zone. If things go wrong, hey, they can always head off back to Melbourne to play in a "serious" side.

Point 2.

The local QLD competition currently does not produce enough young talent to ensure that the Lions don't have to look elsewhere first. This means they'll always come looking to Victoria, S.A., W.A. for players, and end up in the same situation as 'point 1'.

Point 3.

The local QSL competition is not at the same standard as the state competitions in Victoria, S.A., and W.A. Therefore, players who are dropped from the senior side, have it easy in the local competition, and automatically look worthy of selection - without having to do the hard yards of a player in a similar position in Vic, S.A., or W.A.

Point 4.

Even though the expectations of a particular group of players might be high or low, the general perception in the media and football public, is that it's ok for the Brisbane Lions to underacheive, as they're only a footy team in a non-football state. This has to have affected the attitudes of the players over time, and once again leads back to 'point 1'.

Point 5.

From what I can tell, the Brisbane Lions only really have a small group of "genuine" supporters who go, week-in, week-out, and genuinely care about the results of the club. These people are made up of those who supported Fitzroy and the Bears, pre the merger, and also some of those who have come on board since. However, there is somewhat of a 'bandwagon' element, in that while the team can pull sell-out crowds at the Gabba, it certainly seems that a large section of these supporters are there for the ride, for entertainments sake. There seems to be very little pressure for the team to perform, because as in 'point 4', people perceive that the team is "doing great considering they are coming from a non-footy state". Similarly, I think this general perception comes out in the footy public when things go wrong for the Lions (that being "they're only an experiment anyway").

Point 6.

The Brisbane Lions are yet to develop a culture of success. Clubs like Essendon and Carlton are apprenticed in success. Their records stand for themselves. You can't help but think that the winners mentality is bred into players at these clubs by the very culture of their own history of success. Does this help them to get across the line when they most need to? I think it does. In contrast, you have teams like the Western Bulldogs and St.Kilda, who have only won one premiership each, and to some extent you could argue that the lack of success has bred a culture where almost is good enough. Is this the case with the Brisbane Lions? Currently, I think it is. Where are the Brisbane Lions to 'gain' a successful culture from? Should they look to Fitzroy's 8 premiership and champion players as a benchmark?? Somehow I don't think that will be enough, on its own. It's pretty much down to the players and coaching staff to develop their own culture and standards in order to achieve success. No other non-football state is yet to do this (for any serious length of time), and win a premiership. The Crows and Eagles don't count - they both had an entire state's worth of culture, tradition, and hate behind them. Currently, the Brisbane Lions lack this - and it's definitely something which shows on the field.

Any thoughts??
 
I think we needed you to elucidate a bit more there Olmy.

Interesting how the Brisbane players whinge about travel. How did West Coast handle it for so long? I think Perth is just a tad further from Melbourne. Infact Brisbane is even closer to Adelaide.

Enough of geography.

The point is they still have 11 home games. A distinct advantage in my book. An advantage used well by WCE and the Crows for many years.
 
Phew, I have just finished reading point 5.

IMO people are very tolerant of bad form & attend games at the Gabba no matter what.

Sure we have sellouts for big games, but thats true for everywhere.

But generally agree - the club has been living off the positive credit of finally making it as a good footy club (as the Bears)back in 1995/6 - but that credit is about to run out.

Now back to work supervising my Michael Voss cloning experiment...
 
Originally posted by Olmy:
As far as I see it, Brisbane are going to be fighting from behind the 8-ball for a while yet, if they can't change the mental attitude of the players.
Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

One quick way to change our attitude is with a second, relocated team in Brisbane (hpoefully someone nice-n-nasty like the Bullies) tearing us a new arseh*le in the first Showdown (a la Port beating Crows the first time out) so that we finally get our humiliated ring into gear all the way to the GF winner's podium! One team towns more often than not produce loafers--pre-Freo WCE are the exception, of course, that proves the rule
wink.gif
 
I think Olmy's point five is right-to many theatre goers, even in Melbourne . I sat there as an opposition supporter and saw some fairly worrying signs for you guys. Some players taking short steps, some making the wrong decisions, some not enen bothering to man up. Who was on Huddo? Who was accountable for KIngsley Hunter?
Voss was the only one to split packs and take it up to the Bulldogs. And yet Lions fans could only blame the umpire. I understand sticking up for your players(we're forced to stick up for our boys from time to time) But some of the people I talked to didn't have a clue. If this is the sort of back-slapping supporter that proliferates in Brisbane then that is a big problem for you guys.
 
Originally posted by Olmy:

Point 3.

The local QSL competition is not at the same standard as the state competitions in Victoria, S.A., and W.A. Therefore, players who are dropped from the senior side, have it easy in the local competition, and automatically look worthy of selection - without having to do the hard yards of a player in a similar position in Vic, S.A., or W.A.

[
Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

While its true that the QFL would not be as strong as the SANFL (which is stronger than the WAFL also), its true that most Crows or Power players that go back to the local competition dominate also.

The young guys not so much but the fringe players defintley.

A great example is Haydyn Skipworth who played three games with the Crows before ever playing a league game in the SANFL with the Eagles. Last year he was under 19's.

His AFL form was ok for a guy his age but in his first SANFL game he had 30 possessions and got second best on ground. He's 17 years old and dominated in his first SANFL game.

So I think all the second tier leagues have that problem and not just Brisbane though it is probably worse up there.

The Crows and the Power suffer from having all of their players in different teams in the SANFL. Brisbane's are all in the same team I believe?

That makes it very hard for coaches to have control over what their players do and what postions they play. The SANFL were forced to introduce a rule that once dropped from the AFL, the players had to be picked for two SANFL games as some players were sitting on the bench for whole games or even in the rserves.

So the bottom line is the Victorian clubs again have the better deal, as we get no reserves side and have to do more travelling.

But hey, we like a challegne as it would be too easy for us if the rules and the draw were fair.



------------------
"That'll do, THAT will do...Unbelievable Darren"
Bruce... September 1997
 
Originally posted by Lionel Lyon:
One quick way to change our attitude is with a second, relocated team in Brisbane (hpoefully someone nice-n-nasty like the Bullies) tearing us a new arseh*le in the first Showdown (a la Port beating Crows the first time out) so that we finally get our humiliated ring into gear all the way to the GF winner's podium! One team towns more often than not produce loafers--pre-Freo WCE are the exception, of course, that proves the rule
wink.gif
Click to expand...

When Port were lining up for their first season, I made the prediction that the Crows would become a top 4 side. There's nothing worse than being shown up by a close neighbour.

It certainly got the underachieving tendancies out of the Crows (for a year or two) - so, yeah, perhaps something similar might be good for the Lions.
 

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Originally posted by Grave Danger:
I saw Chris Scott (of all people) on tv the other night saying that Brisbane's confidence was probably still suffering from their Ansett Cup final thrashing. That's either a weak excuse or a pathetic admission - take your pick.
Click to expand...

It's even worse to think that some Port Adelaide fans are still getting off on an Ansett Cup GF victory . . .
 
Olmy,

I'd like to adopt all of your points in relation to Sydney as well. You've articulated the problems perfectly.

Another problem is that most 'superstar' type players want to be in Melbourne where the limelight is. Most really top-line players have that touch of arrogance about them on and off the field and welcome the spotlight. They aren't going to get it in Sydney and Brisbane.

The Swans have been well served recently by older players who wanted to get away from the relentless publicity in Melbourne (eg: Lockett, Schwass, Williams might well become another).

We've lost some young guys wanting to go to Melbourne eg Grant, Gaspar, A. Rocca.

The club has learnt from that and now takes into account whether they're likely to stay during the recruitment process. Unfortunately, the ones who are more likely to stay are accommodating, shy or perhaps just happy to get a game anywhere (IE not outstanding players). Not many shy personalities are great players. I'm not saying Sydney don't have some good youngsters, but they don't have that touch of something to make them great.

Perhaps the best example of what I'm talking about is Nathan Buckley. We've all laughed at the "i'm leaving to play finals footy" quote but I get the feeling that he wanted to be in Melbourne at the centre of attention where he felt he deserved to be.

It's just another part of being in a non-footy state. Producing more local players would help, but judging from the standard of the Sydney league games that I've seen that's a long way off.
 
re : Olmy's Point #1

One way to get around the recruiting problem is to do what the Swans have been actively pursuing for a number of years now.

Recruit South Australians.

They are ready made footballers, as good as anything Victoria can produce.

They seem to have little trouble moving to places like Sydney or Brisbane.

They come ready made with an anti-Victorian chip on their shoulder.

The alternative to leaving the Lions for these guys is to return to Aelaide and try their chances at the Crows, Power or SANFL - as you can see most of them opt to stay where they are.

In recent years the Swans have drafted Michael O'Loughlin (Centrals), Simon Feast (Sturt), Nic Fosdyke (Norwood), Matthew Nicks (North Adelaide ?), Jared Crouch (Norwood), Ryan Fitzgerald (South Adelaide) and a few others.

Most of these guys have gone to play regular senior football with the Swans and some have resigned long term contracts to stay in the Harbour City.

Clearly these guys are relishing the opportunity to play AFL football in a place other than Melbourne.

To the Lions- look to the South Australian youngsters to solve your problems with recruiting and retaining players.

cheers
 
Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel:
re : Olmy's Point #1

Matthew Nicks (North Adelaide ?),

cheers
Click to expand...

Nicks: West Adelaide

You make a good point though, that's a lot of South Australian's!!

Indeed they are the best players in the comp.

You wouldn't want to give us Michael O'Loughlin to come and play with his brother would you?

Adam Goodes also went to primary school in Adelaide. Apparantly he wasn't allowed to play footy then because his mum thought he would get hurt!!! Amazing.

------------------
"That'll do, THAT will do...Unbelievable Darren"
Bruce... September 1997
 
Remember Sydney BEFORE the franchise players were secured ? Not good at all. The last franchise player to go to Brisbane was Lynch - all the others have been recruited as young draftees or fill-in types. Instead of letting go hard-at-it players like Molloy and Lawrence and 'cleverly' filling in the missing components - tall back line players - , only to have the whole plan backfire with Leppitsch, Power and Keating out, they should boldly go for a BIG NAME a la the Saints. That's been the way for non football states - get the BIGGEST and the BEST, even if you have to trade off those young blokes. Anyway they'll probably leave - O'Bree, Hilton etc - so at least get something.

Maybe they're paying the coach too much.
 
Anna,

I have to agree. As a Bullies supporter (and I enjoy your posts) something seemed to be missing last week. We have had the mothers of all beatings lately from the Lions, and were expecting a really tough match. Not the Lions we usually see.

Can't put my finger on it, but the fire wasn't there, for sure. Mind, its early days yet.

Originally posted by anna:
Firstly I am a Brisbane member but........
I am so sick of us whinging and making excuses for not winning.
Please sir I have to travel too much.
Not a week goes by and we don't have the coach in the media bleating about something. We are such a negative club. No wonder our players are soft, oh dear I am so tired, I have travelled sooooo much. Mal Michael says he can't believe how much he has travelled this year.
I want them to shut up. Get tough,get on with the bloody job. Although I suppose its a bit hard when the footy department seems to openly talk about it and use it as an excuse constantly for losing.
We knew the draw last year, knew where the cards fell,so why whinge and whinge about it.
Pathetic Brisbane.
I know the usual suspects will come out and bag me ( from brisbane ), but be honest guys wouldn't you like us to just cop it sweet and not whinge so much.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by stinkipants:
like wat?
Click to expand...

Channel 7 don't like us. We never get matches shown. The umpires are against us, we lose because of the umpires, Wayne Jakson hates us, we get 6 games in Melbourne etc etc. Need any more?

------------------
UP WITH THE LIBS

[This message has been edited by John Howard (edited 27 April 2001).]
 
Olmy,
I'll see if I can give you a brief overview of the culture as I see it. I'm originally from Tasmania (no smartarse jokes about 2 heads, I've heard them all before), Footy there, as in Victoria was a religion, everything was footy during the winter, even through the summer most of us couldn't wait for the season to begin. That hunger & passion (in relation to Aussie rules) doesn't exist in Brisbane. It may well be because there are 3 other footy codes spread throughout the city. 2 of which are very strong, so this means watered down support for our game. The fact that we can only despise (meant in the nicest sense) other clubs from a distance doesn't help. I used to go to work (in Tassie) & get into great debates & arguments about last Saturdays games. Here, you are either a Lions supporter or follow another code, therefore, no debate or rivalry for the next week. I've got to be truthful here & admit my own passion for the game has dwindled & for 2 reasons. My son plays soccer & is quite good at it, (the school he attends no longer play Aussie rules) so therefore even though I'm a member of the Lions, if a home game clashes with his soccer I go to his game. The other reason is lack of support. By that, I mean not many passionate supporters of the game itself . A lot of us will go just for the enjoyment of an Aussie rules game (age could also account for part of this). If passion is to be part of the culture, then maybe a second home team (not imported) could well be the answer, nothing better than rivalry to get the juices flowing. I would seek the views of other Lions supporters who have come from other Aussie Rules states.
 
I was borna nd bred in Queensland. Then moved to Melbourne, developed a passion for AFL,when the Bears were born I supported them.Three years ago I moved back to Queensland. What a culture shock.
The Broncos are God here.
But....
We never seem to advertise our game either.I fell off my chair last night when I saw a Lions add on Channel 7.
I have always thought we needed to market the club in Queensland as the Queensland Aussie Rules Club. The rivaly in State of Origin Rugby is something to bee seen.They hate the New South Welshmen, because we are proud Queenslanders.
Our club has stated they don't think this is appropriate for Aussie Rules. No idea why mind you. Make the Lions the Queensland team. Market certain games that way.
I think it would work.We need to make our own rivalrys.
In rugby the Queensland Reds have an intense hatred of the NSW Warratahs and the ACT Brumbies.That pride of state thing.
Although it might just help us if from the CEO down we had the majority of executive positions filled by Queenslanders not Victorians as it is now.
We act like a wholly Victorian club, which will never ever work here.
 

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Whinging Brisbane

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