Who to take with no.1?

[Bartram_Class]

The same things were said about Tom Hawkins.

Hawkins hasn't set the world on fire but if Watts turns out the equal of the Tomahawk I'll be ****ing stoked.

Jack Watts is no Tomahawk. Hawkins would be 20kg heavier at the same age surely?

And sadly, no Ferguson to throw Watts on in his first game.

 

[Beats]

i have never been a fan of Watts and never will be!! he is overhyped and i dare say it he will not be a dominant forward at afl level!

if we take him it will be nick smith/luke molan all over again!!

the player, however, that we must get is TYRONE VICKERY!!

he is as athletic as ruckman come, albeit excusing naitanui, and he is a proven player in the forward line!

our two major needs at the moment are a KPF and geuine no: 1 ruckman...well he can be part-time both! he can play half a game forward and half a game in the ruck, alternating with someone like PJ and Warnock if we can manage to get him!!

i reckon we then use picks 17 and 19 to snap up lewis johnston or aaron cornelius, and someone like sam blease, mitch robinson, steele sidebottom, david zaharakis etc.

He will take just as much time as a Watts or a Naitanui to develop, and simply isn't up to either's level in their specific field.
Great to pick him up, but not with our 1st pick.

For me it's starting to look like we should take one of Naitanui and Rich.
My argument is that at our next picks 17/19 there will be at least be 1/2 good key forwards close to the level of Watts(Cornelius, Johnston) and out our 3rd rounder there will probably still be another 1/2 decent forward prospects(Cahill, Brown).
But at those picks there will be no midfielder anywhere near the level of Rich, at 17/19 there will be the likes of Blease(who we should definately take if available) who has all the upside in the world but doesn't cut it when compared to Rich, Zaharakis who is an absolute workhorse but just isn't up to that level and so on.
And once again at those picks there is no stand out ruckman, the next best ruck is likely to be taken mid-late second round at the earliest.

I'd rather draft for an even spread of talent across all positions, which is what we need.

 

[cannons]

^^Agreed, Vickery is good, but not a person to consider at #1.

Watts has got a plethora of hype from Melbourne fans mainly due to the fact he's a forward. I just feel that Rich and Nait are better options on the whole, and they will each fill an important void in the club's playing list. Add to this the fact there are a number of key forwards who are very talented in this draft (albeit not as complete as Watts), I feel we should roll with one of the Western boys.

 

[RandB]

It is becoming quite apparent that Rich is looking like the safest option of the three. Naita is an obvious risk but could be huge if his other skills develop and I get the feeling that Watts is still an unknown quantity in areas. I am soley making these judgements on what I have read across the BF site of course.

There has been much debate on here about the pros and cons of the top three but the fact of the matter is that all three are the number one options for their position. It wouldn't matter which one we picked in many apects because we could do with a quality forward (or two), a quality (freak) ruckman and a quick quality mid. My choice has been Watts because we have no real back up plan for forward spearheads but I am coming to the conclusion that which ever player we pick it can't really be a success or failure.
______

We all have a rough idea of the physical traits of each but who (in everyone's opinion) would be the strongest mentally of the three. Which one wouldn't suffer from the pressure of being the #1 pick and just going out there and doing it?

 

[Beats]

We all have a rough idea of the physical traits of each but who (in everyone's opinion) would be the strongest mentally of the three. Which one wouldn't suffer from the pressure of being the #1 pick and just going out there and doing it?

I'd say all are pretty strong mentally, however in that regard, Rich is vastly unproven.
Watts has shown that he can stay calm and has a cool head when playing, and that he speaks very well.
Nait has been touted as the number one pick since before last years draft and it hasn't really appeared to affect him in any way.
Rich has had a bit of scrutiny, but nothing to the level of the other two.

 

[RandB]

I'd say all are pretty strong mentally, however in that regard, Rich is vastly unproven.
Watts has shown that he can stay calm and has a cool head when playing, and that he speaks very well.
Nait has been touted as the number one pick since before last years draft and it hasn't really appeared to affect him in any way.
Rich has had a bit of scrutiny, but nothing to the level of the other two.

That's a good point actually. Obviously physical attributes don't go out the window but confidence and conviction can. With Naita he seems to have stayed pretty focussed but is he possibly in a comfort zone over there in WA? You'd think the Eagles (and Dockers to a lesser extent) would be his preference.

I don't really know that much about any of them but if Watts has such a good head as you suggest then that is a big plus for me - we need a good, smart forward who knows how to go about turning a situation to advantage as well as taking a good strong mark.

 

[cannons]

That's a good point actually. Obviously physical attributes don't go out the window but confidence and conviction can. With Naita he seems to have stayed pretty focussed but is he possibly in a comfort zone over there in WA? You'd think the Eagles (and Dockers to a lesser extent) would be his preference.

I don't really know that much about any of them but if Watts has such a good head as you suggest then that is a big plus for me - we need a good, smart forward who knows how to go about turning a situation to advantage as well as taking a good strong mark.

I agree with what Beats said about their mental side, although I have a feeling Watts is somewhat unproven in this area too. I know he speaks well, as he should being a private school attendee, but I feel as if hasn't been challenged much throughout his footballing encounters. He plays mainly at school level, where he is a cut above most players, and the same goes for the TAC cup. His performance at the National Champs shows some mental strength though.

At the same time, the WA boys are playing senior football where they are not the standouts in each and every fixture. It takes more character to deal with this kind of situation, as opposed to that of Watts where he is always dominant. In saying this, he has shown some composure when he plays, which is positive.

 

[stickman11]

It is becoming quite apparent that Rich is looking like the safest option of the three. Naita is an obvious risk but could be huge if his other skills develop and I get the feeling that Watts is still an unknown quantity in areas. I am soley making these judgements on what I have read across the BF site of course.

There has been much debate on here about the pros and cons of the top three but the fact of the matter is that all three are the number one options for their position. It wouldn't matter which one we picked in many apects because we could do with a quality forward (or two), a quality (freak) ruckman and a quick quality mid. My choice has been Watts because we have no real back up plan for forward spearheads but I am coming to the conclusion that which ever player we pick it can't really be a success or failure.
______

We all have a rough idea of the physical traits of each but who (in everyone's opinion) would be the strongest mentally of the three. Which one wouldn't suffer from the pressure of being the #1 pick and just going out there and doing it?

Thing I noticed about Watts is that he seems to have that ability to know where to place himself in a pack. A skinnier version of David Schwarz. Great pack marker. He is quite a good kick.

I am sure whoever the recruitment staff pick will be on need.

 

[RandB]

I agree with what Beats said about their mental side, although I have a feeling Watts is somewhat unproven in this area too. I know he speaks well, as he should being a private school attendee, but I feel as if hasn't been challenged much throughout his footballing encounters. He plays mainly at school level, where he is a cut above most players, and the same goes for the TAC cup. His performance at the National Champs shows some mental strength though.

At the same time, the WA boys are playing senior football where they are not the standouts in each and every fixture. It takes more character to deal with this kind of situation, as opposed to that of Watts where he is always dominant. In saying this, he has shown some composure when he plays, which is positive.

Thanks for the feedback.

It definitely sounds like Watts is a player we should get - at some stage anyway. Even though he hasn't played at the same level as the other two I admire players who can consistently stand out among their piers. Perhaps next year may be a better option though if it is at all possible. If we do put him on the backburner (under the assumption that we can still get him next year) then it is still important that we get at least 1 KPF with our 2nd or 3rd pick this year IMO.

 

[cannons]

Thanks for the feedback.

It definitely sounds like Watts is a player we should get - at some stage anyway. Even though he hasn't played at the same level as the other two I admire players who can consistently stand out among their piers. Perhaps next year may be a better option though if it is at all possible. If we do put him on the backburner (under the assumption that we can still get him next year) then it is still important that we get at least 1 KPF with our 2nd or 3rd pick this year IMO.

This draft has a great deal of depth in the KPF area, and the brightest prospects (Johnston, Cornelius, Cahill etc.) are at a level which isn't too far away from that of Watts. Watts is the most complete KPF in the draft though, at least in my opinion anyway.

 

[whelan=legend]

This is a post by Haydo on demonology about Watts today:

I wandered down to watch the main man in action today with my old man.

Jack played about 90% of the game, rotating from CHF to midfield.

I counted his stats as:
-14 kicks
-8 handballs
-7 marks (including 3 very nice contested pack marks)
-2 goals, 1 point
-quite a few assists

Though i may have missed a couple.

Final score was Geelong winning by about 10-12 points.

Jack oozed absolute class today.

He has a massive engine. When he played midfield, he had a guy a lot shorter trying to tag him who just couldn't keep up with him.

When Jack possessed the ball, he just seemed to have forever to dispose of the ball. His reaction time was so quick and his skills are sublime.

He has a trademark baulk or two when surrounded by players, that most of the time gives him more time to open up the play and pass off the ball to a teammate in a better position, with either hand or either foot.

His pinpoint passing on his non-preferred left foot today was unbeleivable to watch for a bloke of 194cm (and growing).

He has awesome evasive skills.

He kicked one goal with ease from outside 50 from a mark and another on the run from a boundary throw in (again from outside 50) reminiscent of one Matthew Pavlich, that was drilled through the middle, that had class class class written all over it.

He did some magical things today that had my mouth watering and had my dad and i in awe, like pivoting and evading players like Hird or TJ does.

He is good.

The only dissapointing thing was that he spent so long on the ball.

I would have liked to have seen him up forward more as the main target.

His spring and speed is very good, but i didn't think he pushed hard enough for leads today or ran into space enough. He seemded to just float into space a lot, present and take the mark naturally, rather than having to work his butt off to get into space to get his possessions. These things can be taught and worked on i suppose.

For mine he was BOG for Sandy.

Tyronne Vickery played quite a good game as well, kicking two goals when pushed forward and was very clean with his possessions. Tap work was good as was his below the knees work. He will be a star.

He will go top 7 for sure.

I said to my old man that i wouldn't be suprised he we seriously looked at him for our number 1 pick.

Dean Bailey was seated close by us, sitting with Predergaust, Leoncilli and one other unknown.

I had a quick chat at 3/4 time with them and i fecetiously asked them if they were here to watch our number 1 draft pick.

One of them replied they were here to watch number 11 and number 8 (Watts & Vickery).

When i asked them why Watts was playing in the midfield, one answered that they were a little dissapointed he was spending so much time in the midfield, as they wanted to have a good look at him up forward.

On another topic, i know for a fact that the possibility of Bruce or Green being traded has been discussed by the powers to be.

The main barrier with Bruce is that he is on a huge pay packet that is over the odds for his current market value

Unbelievable.

So if we were to trade him, we would have to pay part of his salary for the 1 year remaining of his contract, the same as we did with TJ.

With Green, negotiations are stalled for 2 reasons.

As reported, he wants 3 years and much much more than we are prepared to pay.

I can tell you for certain that there are some movers and shakers at the club that want to move Bruce on for either a fair draft pick or an up grade of our 17th or 19th pick. Watch this space.

Carroll will again be offered up for trade for anything that we can get, unfortuately probably like last year no one will want him.

The swapping of picks 1 and 3 for Warnock is rubbish. We are doing our utmost to get him for free in the pre-season draft. Carlton are also in to him in a massive way.

Don't let the brotherly love thing come into the equation, he is not ours just yet.

He is coming to Victoria for sure, but to the highest bidder it appears.

Mark Harvey was also in attendance.

To summarise, i think on todays performance alone, we must take Watts.

He has a lot of tricks up his sleeve for such a big boy and he is below age with a lot of filling out to do.

He has so much time and awareness, which is a rare commodity and a sign of a great player, combined with his unique skill and contested marking attributes.

Lock it in, he is our man.

Give him the number 9.

 

[ptrg]

I keep seeing this amazing stats for Jack and it bemuses me when I have seen him play so many times, that people can hand pick these statistics to suit their needs.
I've been to quite a few of the Sandy boys TAC cup games this year and the few Jack has played, I would have to say overall he was underwhelming..
Here is Jack's home and away season stats for the TAC cup - which is an Under 18's Competition.



Contested marks, to me, is a huge worry - the fact in 5 games that he has taken just the 5 contested marks, in a competition that he should dominate is alarming..
I was at two of these matches, and he was no way a "stand out", yet alone worthy of any of best player votes, and from all reports, didn't come close to receiving votes (top 5 from each team mind you) in any of the others.
Also reading these stats, for all he talk of Jack dominating, he has kicked just the 5 goals in 5 games, BUT the worrying part is that in three games he was kept goal-less.. I was at one of those, and it wasn't due to being stuck on the ball either... Yes he is a dominate player at school boy level, but even the step up here just to a higher grade, and already the signs become concerning.

For a fair comparison, I would love to see Jack Watts play VFL football - the same standard at which his "rival" top draft picks are playing at, but until then, all these stats and whispers of "dominance" are going a little bit over the top fellas..

 

[Demonic_Inferno]

lolol hawhawhaw (@ double post above).

 

[whelan=legend]

Yes he is a dominate player at school boy level, but even the step up here just to a higher grade, and already the signs become concerning.

Lark medal?

 

[ptrg]

whelan=legendRe: Who to take with no.1?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptrg
Yes he is a dominate player at school boy level, but even the step up here just to a higher grade, and already the signs become concerning.


Lark medal?

mate, what are you on about?

 

[whelan=legend]

mate, what are you on about?

Jack Watts won the Lark Medal for the best played in the under 18 carnivals. So obviously he has no problems stepping up to a higher grade.

 

[master bate]

mate, what are you on about?

He has stepped up to State U18 competition which is above the TAC and won the Larke medal for the best player in it, playing some great games, kicking goals and taking contested marks.

 

[lose]

it amazes me that you guys are worried about the development of nn... think of the time it took stynes to develop when comin from ireland... this kid is a freak, aka buddy franklin and has everything that melbourne need- he will be a draw card... think of how richmond feel about missing franklin, that is what will happen to us if we dont take nn...

you dont draft on what you need with your first round picks, that is what melbourne has done in the past and look at the *******s we have ended up with... if anything we should be telling watts to wait for next year, cos i hate to say it but cant really seeing us finishing higher than anyone else...

 

[ptrg]

mate, I can only call it as I see it..
I've seem Jack play a few games for sandy and countless games for BGS and in my honest opinion there are far better "proven" options in this years draft.. Many of the other top picks are running around at a senior and much more tougher level than Jack is right now at. A lot of you talk like the guy is your best friend, but who can honestly say they've seen more than the 5min sports tonight hilights and become an instant expert.

AND then, if you indeed are the Watts expert, how much game time have you seen of ANY of the other top 10 players? Get off your high horse boys.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

think of how richmond feel about missing franklin, that is what will happen to us if we dont take nn...

Saying things like this mean absolutely zero. Big fat zero. What if Rich becomes the next Judd or Watts the next Riewoldt or Brown? We'll have exactly the same regrets if that happens and Naitaniu doesn't turn out to be a star

You don't think about "what ifs" when considering draft picks

mate, I can only call it as I see it..
I've seem Jack play a few games for sandy and countless games for BGS and in my honest opinion there are far better "proven" options in this years draft.. Many of the other top picks are running around at a senior and much more tougher level than Jack is right now at. A lot of you talk like the guy is your best friend, but who can honestly say they've seen more than the 5min sports tonight hilights and become an instant expert.

AND then, if you indeed are the Watts expert, how much game time have you seen of ANY of the other top 10 players? Get off your high horse boys.

While you're pushing people off high-horses, how about you back-up your criticisms of Watts by naming the "far better proven options" available that we should take instead?

 

[ptrg]

Well Melbourne could always go the Geelong model, which is you don't need a super key forward, but all you do need is unlimited supply to the forwards.
In this case, I defiantly say we pick up Rich, due to the fact he is running around with men in the WAFL and still DOMINATING (theres that word again),

OR

We could go option two, and that is the Hawthorn model.

Take a risk. Clarko did, and now look where the Hawks are.. Are we really that happy to become another team who just sits around the 7,8,9,10 mark for the next 5 years, or do we want to grab the comp by the balls and have a go?
If we follow the hawk method, we first need a good coach who knows his tactics to a tee - check
We then need a good up and coming back line who all are playing to earn a spot - check
A solid midfield who will all start to mature in the next few years - check
But most importantly, we need an X-factor player, someone who can change a game, win a game from his own boot...
I just watched the latest WAFL video and I saw Naitanui turn that game around.
In this case, Naitanui is our man. And look, Hawks were smart.. they picked up Franklin, but they also picked up ANOTHER workhorse key forward in Roughead - and there are quite a few similar type players in this years draft, all which are very accessible with our second pick.

I for one am sick and tired of being just another team who is satisfied with finishing 7th or 8th.. This is the north melbourne approach, the richmond approach. We need to take a chance, invigourate our players, our members, but most importantly, our team. Because finishing 7th and 8th at best, and Melbourne may be done.

 

[The Demon]

It is important to remember that MFC draft selections are not put to a popular vote.

It is fun to have healthy debate on who the MFC should draft,however the fact is the drafting decisions will be made by the MFC recruiting team.

The question is: Do we have faith in our current recruiting staff? There is a better than reasonable chance that they have done a bit more research and have a bit more knowledge on the matter than you or I?

I do believe they will deliver.

 

[cannons]

It is important to remember that MFC draft selections are not put to a popular vote.

It is fun to have healthy debate on who the MFC should draft,however the fact is the drafting decisions will be made by the MFC recruiting team.

The question is: Do we have faith in our current recruiting staff? There is a better than reasonable chance that they have done a bit more research and have a bit more knowledge on the matter than you or I?

I do believe they will deliver.

Their track record for first rounders is average to say the least, however one must give them credit for their 2nd-4th round selections in the past.

So it is difficult to provide a distinctive answer, but I would say I have a moderate faith in them to pick the right players.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Their track record for first rounders is average to say the least, however one must give them credit for their 2nd-4th round selections in the past.

So it is difficult to provide a distinctive answer, but I would say I have a moderate faith in them to pick the right players.

It's not really our current recruiting team's track record.

We've got a new coach, a new Football manager and a new recruiting manager. They've had one draft so far, with limited time to prepare for it, and their early selections look the goods so far.

So this year is their first full year with months of preparation going into the draft. So based on last year i've got a reasonably strong faith in them.

 

[RandB]

Well Melbourne could always go the Geelong model, which is you don't need a super key forward, but all you do need is unlimited supply to the forwards.
In this case, I defiantly say we pick up Rich, due to the fact he is running around with men in the WAFL and still DOMINATING (theres that word again),

Rich seems to be the middle ground in this debate between the Watts camp and the Naita camp and in all honesty I wouldn't mind if we got Rich and then a forward or two with latter picks. Naita could also be a good choice but I think the Naita supporters are getting a little bit carried away with how damaging he could be.

OR

We could go option two, and that is the Hawthorn model.

Take a risk. Clarko did, and now look where the Hawks are.. Are we really that happy to become another team who just sits around the 7,8,9,10 mark for the next 5 years, or do we want to grab the comp by the balls and have a go?
If we follow the hawk method, we first need a good coach who knows his tactics to a tee - check
We then need a good up and coming back line who all are playing to earn a spot - check
A solid midfield who will all start to mature in the next few years - check
But most importantly, we need an X-factor player, someone who can change a game, win a game from his own boot...
I just watched the latest WAFL video and I saw Naitanui turn that game around.
In this case, Naitanui is our man. And look, Hawks were smart.. they picked up Franklin, but they also picked up ANOTHER workhorse key forward in Roughead - and there are quite a few similar type players in this years draft, all which are very accessible with our second pick.

I have to say that I am starting to get sick of the Hawthorn/Buddy comparisons. First of all, Franklin wins games off his own boot because he is a forward, anyone who thinks Naita is going to devestate teams like Franklin does is kidding themselves. If we get Naita who honestly thinks we would be moulding him as a KPF - because that is what he would have to be to be up there with Buddy. Secondly, Hawthorn had 2 picks in the 2004 draft and I ask everyone this: Did they pick Franklin with their priority pick? No they didn't. They went with Roughhead who was a young tall KPF. Luckily (for them) the Hawks had another pick in which they used on Franklin. The point is that Hawthorn did not take a risk at all. They used common sense at the time with their first pick and maybe showed a little bit of foresight by using pick 5 on Buddy. I'm sick of all this risk taking crap that people are going on about. We are in a completely different situation than what Hawthorn were with our our options. We have the #1 pick and we can't afford to get caught up with Buddy this and Buddy that. If the club believes that it could put Naita's ability to full potential and has a genuine long term plan on how they want to use him then fair enough go for him. But to go with Naita just because he is a "freak" is a pretty big ____in risk IMO.

If we actually wanted to copy what Hawthorn did then we should be focusing on two tall forwards with our first two picks - it won't happen but that in essence is what the Hawks did. Our (lack of) forward line now is similar to what theirs was like at the end of 2004. Roughead the obvious first pick then the next tall forward option just so happened to be Franklin and it was the right choice because they needed an extra tall forward, the fact that Buddy is now a superstar is just the icing on the cake (condolences to Richmond).

I for one am sick and tired of being just another team who is satisfied with finishing 7th or 8th.. This is the north melbourne approach, the richmond approach. We need to take a chance, invigourate our players, our members, but most importantly, our team. Because finishing 7th and 8th at best, and Melbourne may be done.

The reasons we have been in that boat is because we never did it the hard way - from the ground up. Daniher was also under pressure to keep us as competitive as possible without having the option to rebuild. In the end we paid for it as we hit the ground with a thud. Now is not the time to take chances, now is the time to do it the boring old fashioned way - the hard way. All real premiership sides don't leave things to chance.