Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn?

[RCAB]

I don't agree at all that the margin would have been bigger for the following reasons. If McKay plays JSOS stays back and Young wouldn't have played. This would have meant Weitering on Chol which is a much better matchup for us than Young who was beaten convincingly especially early. I don't think there would be any significant change in your ability to rebound from D50. McKay is a very good pressure player for someone his height but let's put that aside. At the very least McKay provides a very clear aerial target. Makes it very easy for the smalls to know where the ball is going and they can be at his feet to stop the ball leaking out for rebounds from D50. It also means that we can play Kemp as the 3rd tall rather than the 2nd which is the role we envisaged for him when we sent him forward in the pre-season. The other thing it does is it allows McKay to play 2nd ruck rather than Young/Cripps. McKay is a much better ruck, gets him around the ball and around the ground he is elite.

I really don't see how McKay instead of Young makes us worse. In fact I think there are plenty of reasons why it would make us much better as described above. And before I get jumped on I'm not saying with McKay we automatically win or anything. But first two rounds I think we have gotten very little from two very important pieces to our team. This team hasn't played at anything close to its capacity yet imo.

So you've just proved my point.

Silvagni had 5 Tackles I50 (the most of any player on the ground, and probably some kind of record) and if you put him down back you lose that, including his 18 pressure acts, which is high for a forward (I don't think I've ever seen McKay get more than 10), and you lose a vital defensive-forward, which in turns means Hawthorn have an even easier time transitioning from D50.

But I can see why Carlton people don't value forward 50 pressure that much.

 

[Crankyhawk]

So where do others place Carlton on the worry scale?

I don’t think any neutrals are worried about Carlton or how they will go.

 

[carlton_99]

So you've just proved my point.

Silvagni had 5 Tackles I50 (the most of any player on the ground, and probably some kind of record) and if you put him down back you lose that, including his 18 pressure acts, which is high for a forward (I don't think I've ever seen McKay get more than 10), and you lose a vital defensive-forward, which in turns means Hawthorn have an even easier time transitioning from D50.

But I can see why Carlton people don't value forward 50 pressure that much.

You clearly didn't read my post at all. No where did I prove your point. The game is about a lot more than pressure acts. Silvagni would be more valuable down back then Young. McKay would be more valuable up forward and in the ruck than Silvagni/Young. It is simple. Genuinely bizarre you can possibly think us having a top 5 player at the club in the team would make us worse than having someone that wouldn't be in our top 30.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You clearly didn't read my post at all. No where did I prove your point. The game is about a lot more than pressure acts. Silvagni would be more valuable down back then Young. McKay would be more valuable up forward and in the ruck than Young. It is simple. Genuinely bizarre you can possibly think us having a top 5 player at the club in the team would make us worse than having someone that wouldn't be in our top 30.

He doesn't genuinely believe it. He's just a bitter troll.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Playing without him, 1/3 of a curnow & playing the worst football we've played in 3 years, you beat us by 20 pts.

Don’t get too full of yourself brother!

Because Hawthorn was full strength….

 

[RCAB]

Last time Barass played on him? Kicked 5.3.

I mean hell, Jack Silvagni could have kicked 3-4 on him the other night if he wasn't wayward with his fairly easy set shots on a night the Blues were absolutely putrid forward of centre.

Gees your terrible at this.. did you deliberately lie or do you forget how McKay scored those 5 goals against West Coast back in 2022? BTW, we're almost talking a different era, Naitanui was playing back then but I'll humour you for a bit..

It was round 17, 2022, McKay scored 5 goals against the Eagles, 3 of them were in the last quarter, but not on Barrass. The first two were on Barrass, and one came from a speculative free-kick.

 

[RCAB]

You clearly didn't read my post at all. No where did I prove your point. The game is about a lot more than pressure acts. Silvagni would be more valuable down back then Young. McKay would be more valuable up forward and in the ruck than Silvagni/Young. It is simple. Genuinely bizarre you can possibly think us having a top 5 player at the club in the team would make us worse than having someone that wouldn't be in our top 30.

You did... keep pretending it didn't.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Gees your terrible at this.. did you deliberately lie or do you forget how McKay scored those 5 goals against West Coast back in 2022? BTW, we're almost talking a different era, Naitanui was playing back then but I'll humour you for a bit..

It was round 17, 2022, McKay scored 5 goals against the Eagles, 3 of them were in the last quarter, but not on Barrass. The first two were on Barrass, and one came from a speculative free-kick.

The last time Barass played on McKay. Correct.

Sounds like you just went through and watched the match highlights then posted this, I actually watched the game at the time lmao.

 

[RCAB]

The last time Barass played on McKay. Correct.

Sounds like you just went through and watched the match highlights then posted this, I actually watched the game at the time lmao.

You're doubling down? **** me

You said:

Last time Barass played on him? Kicked 5.3.

He kicked two goals on him... You're 150% off.

Go on, double down again.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You're doubling down? **** me

You said:

Last time Barass played on him? Kicked 5.3.

He kicked two goals on him... You're 150% off.

Go on, double down again.

Did u watch the game or the highlights?

 

[RCAB]

Did u watch the game or the highlights?

The first two goals McKay kicked were on Barrass, the last three were on different players.

You have the memory of Trump-bot so we shouldn't expect you to remember that far back.

Yes go watch the highlights/game again, or keep showing to everyone you have no idea how to debate or deal with facts.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The first two goals McKay kicked were on Barrass, the last three were on different players.

You have the memory of Trump-bot so we shouldn't expect you to remember that far back.

Yes go watch the highlights/game again, or keep showing to everyone you have no idea how to debate or deal with facts.

You cant seem to answer the question... Did you watch the game or the highlights reel?

 

[RCAB]

You cant seem to answer the question... Did you watch the game or the highlights reel?

I'll answer it when you admit you made a 150% error, by saying McKay scored 5 goals on Barrass when in fact he only kicked....

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'll answer it when you admit you made a 150% error, by saying McKay scored 5 goals on Barrass when in fact he only kicked....

"Last time Barass played on him? Kicked 5.3."

That was the last game they played where Tom Barass was his direct opponent for the game. Did I say he kicked 5.3 all on Tom Barass alone?

Nuffy hour

Now admit you didn't watch the match, you looked at 2 minutes of highlights like a nuff.

 

[Delisted]

Now admit you didn't watch the match, you looked at 2 minutes of highlights like a nuff.

I watched the game and highlights. Then the highlights again

 

[CarmenSandiego]

"Last time Barass played on him? Kicked 5.3."

That was the last game they played where Tom Barass was his direct opponent for the game. Did I say he kicked 5.3 all on Tom Barass alone?

Nuffy hour

Now admit you didn't watch the match, you looked at 2 minutes of highlights like a nuff.

Maybe Barrass wasn’t ‘tagging’ him that day

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Josh is a troll.

3) Hawthorn's depth is scary​

Next man in. Hawthorn has shown across the start of the season just how much depth they have. Changkuoth Jiath watched on across Opening Round and round one before replacing the suspended Jack Scrimshaw on Thursday night, and he slotted in seamlessly across half-back, finishing with 20 touches in his first game of 2025. Josh Ward was stiff to miss out on selection against Sydney, but since replacing the injured James Worpel, the former pick No.7 has collected 22 and 24 disposals. Jack Gunston started the year at Box Hill, where Luke Breust played on Friday night, while Sam Frost was squeezed out of the 23 against Carlton on Thursday nightand is another option to turn to, if required. Another to watch is Henry Hustwaite, who finished with 30 disposals and 11 clearances in the VFL. It takes a squad to go deep into September and the Hawks bat very deep. - Josh Gabelich

 

[Crankyhawk]

Josh is a troll.

3) Hawthorn's depth is scary​

Next man in. Hawthorn has shown across the start of the season just how much depth they have. Changkuoth Jiath watched on across Opening Round and round one before replacing the suspended Jack Scrimshaw on Thursday night, and he slotted in seamlessly across half-back, finishing with 20 touches in his first game of 2025. Josh Ward was stiff to miss out on selection against Sydney, but since replacing the injured James Worpel, the former pick No.7 has collected 22 and 24 disposals. Jack Gunston started the year at Box Hill, where Luke Breust played on Friday night, while Sam Frost was squeezed out of the 23 against Carlton on Thursday nightand is another option to turn to, if required. Another to watch is Henry Hustwaite, who finished with 30 disposals and 11 clearances in the VFL. It takes a squad to go deep into September and the Hawks bat very deep. - Josh Gabelich

how is this a troll?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

how is this a troll?

Walshie’s main argument regarding Hawthorn over summer is that we don’t have good depth.

 

[matey]

Interesting article regarding Blues list/depth:

“Overrated”: Why former AFL coach doesn't rate Carlton's list

“I can’t believe there was talk that they were going to be top four.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[Fadge]

Interesting article regarding Blues list/depth:

“Overrated”: Why former AFL coach doesn't rate Carlton's list

“I can’t believe there was talk that they were going to be top four.”

www.sen.com.au

He's just trolling, like everyone else is accused of doing when they make similar comments...

 

[peetoo]

Across the league, the teams with not so many superstars, but plenty in the next levels seem to be doing better while the general approach seems to be speed over the ground.

Of course teams and the general flow will evolve over the season

 

[Freomaniac]

This thread needs more Red Bull

Red Bull ? Fair enough

 

[Freomaniac]

Gees your terrible at this.. did you deliberately lie or do you forget how McKay scored those 5 goals against West Coast back in 2022? BTW, we're almost talking a different era, Naitanui was playing back then but I'll humour you for a bit..

It was round 17, 2022, McKay scored 5 goals against the Eagles, 3 of them were in the last quarter, but not on Barrass. The first two were on Barrass, and one came from a speculative free-kick.

You do realise West coast In round 17 of that 2022 season was garbage?

Eagles in 2022 finished bottom 2 with 2 wins and 20 losses

 

[peetoo]

Perhaps carlton are still in denial