Who will be the first club to win 17 premierships

[greatwhiteshark]

On Port Adelaide

I don't see an issue with people saying that they have 37 senior premierships, in local footy, you often see a club say that they have lets say 10 senior flags, six in one league, 3 in another league and one in a third league, they are all counted as premierships.

Again you compared Port to local footy. I just don't get it. Port have won theirs in Top tier leagues.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Again you compared Port to local footy. I just don't get it. Port have won theirs in Top tier leagues.

Correct and top of the class.

 

[Tiger2709]

Did you live in WA or SA for an extended period through those eras? Or are you just guessing to make it sound better?
Once again no one is putting down the VFL here, I lived it and I am telling you what I know. Unless you lived it you certainly do not know so stop guessing.
I have lived and breathed footy my whole life, it was not until the 80's that the VFL became a footy talking point in WA and SA. Did some people follow a VFL side, I am sure they did. Did they follow the VFL? Maybe but it was pretty hard to do with such little coverage.
You can assume all you like but unless you lived it then you really don't know.

Not sure why you keep saying I'm guessing or making assumptions I'm basing my comments on facts and having lived in both states?

Lived in Vic until 1995, then WA.

You are forgetting how comparatively small the populations in SA and WA were back then and still are in comparison to Victoria which is half again as big as the other two states combined, you may have liked to think the WAFL or SANFL were as big as the VFL but they weren't, if they were why was there no discussion about merging all 3 competitions to make the national comp, the reason was that the VFL was already that and everyone wanted to play in the VFL, Port Adelaide is a great example of this, they out grew the local comp and wanted to join the VFL.

 

[Tiger2709]

Except, you're 100% full of shit because most people in SA have an SANFL side and never cared about the VFL?

Keep it down champ no need to be rude.

Explain why your team wanted to join the VFL then if the SANFL was as big

Oh and surely a number of Vic clubs were clambering to join the "equally big" SANFL?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Not sure why you keep saying I'm guessing or making assumptions I'm basing my comments on facts and having lived in both states?

Lived in Vic until 1995, then WA.

You are forgetting how comparatively small the populations in SA and WA were back then and still are in comparison to Victoria which is half again as big as the other two states combined, you may have liked to think the WAFL or SANFL were as big as the VFL but they weren't, if they were why was there no discussion about merging all 3 competitions to make the national comp, the reason was that the VFL was already that and everyone wanted to play in the VFL, Port Adelaide is a great example of this, they out grew the local comp and wanted to join the VFL.

So you did not live in WA in the 70's and and early 80's. By 1995 the WAFL had been decimated by the AFL and the introduction of the Eagles and Dockers.
I never once said the WAFL and the SANFL were as strong as the VFL, in fact I actually said by population they could not be. That again does not change the fact those leagues were top tier leagues. It also does not change the fact that until the mid 80's WAFL was king in WA, WAFL was football in WA.
Did people have secret radio stations and TV stations they were watching and listening to the VFL back then without my knowledge?
As for your comment on the 3 comps merging together well there is a great deal of people who think this should of happen or at least the best clubs from each comp.
It did not happen that way though and here we are now.
And again i will say that I have not bagged the VFL here but I am sick of the WAFL and SANFL being bagged by people who were not here, did not experience it in those years and have no knowledge other than saying things that make the two great comps sound second rate. It was far from second rate and for the people that lived through those eras it was the pinnacle of the game in those states at that time.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Here are the facts:
The VFL evolved into the AFL. It IS the same league with a different name. It was still operating under the name VFL in 1989 when interstate teams Sydney, West Coast and Brisbane were playing.
All the VFL did was simply change their name to reflect the fact that it was evolving to a national league. The teams that played in the 1989 season of VFL were the exact same teams that played in the 1990 season of AFL.
Port, Adelaide, Fremantle, GWS, Gold Coast all applied to form new teams in the AFL, or were newly created teams. Teams that are effectively separate entities to the state league teams that some of them might have sprouted from.
Port can possibly claim that they are the most successful Aussie Rules club, when combining their premierships across all leagues, but that has nothing to do with VFL/AFL premierships, which are one and the same.

When talking about the most VFL/AFL flags, that's a different story.

Essendon, for example, won a flag in 1897 without playing in a grand final and in 1924 by playing a round robin tournament and losing it's final game. I can accept those flags, as they were the rules in place at the time, even they do seem a stupid way to be named premiers. They won the 1993 flag, but were later found guilty of breaching the salary cap that year. The fact that the AFL let them keep the flag is a blight on the game. The record books might show 16, but it should only be 15 and only 13 of those came from grand final wins.

Collingwood, for example, lost the grand final in 1930, but under another strange rule at the time, had the right to challenge for a rematch due to finishing the season as minor premiers. Again, as silly as it sounds, this flag needs to be accepted as these were the official rules at the time, but they are the only premiers to have won a flag after losing a grand final.

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

Your comparison is rijelousus and to be honest quite sad that you can't acknowledge the great history of Port Adelaide.
In the VFL/AFL you are correct they have won one flag but as a top tier professional football club they have won 37. What an amazing achievement.
If you really believe the SANFL and WAFL were country bush leagues then I actually feel sorry for you, being a staunch West Australian one part of the AFL I have loved over the years is finding out about the great history of the VFL clubs, never once have I wanted to support a Victorian club but I will always acknowledge their rich history just as I do Port Adelaides.
It's like their is a combined group of you that just bag their history and try to devalue it and for the life of me I cannot understand why.
Starting to think it is actually jealousy, there can't be any other explanation if you really love your footy and its history.

1. I never used the word bush league, someone else did.

2. I have always said that as a club Port Adelaide is very successful, like many clubs around Australia.

3. I was referring my comments to the VFL/AFL because you would have to agree that VFL was always held in a higher regard to SNAFL. You could say your club West Coast was the best club of the 90's or Hawthorn is the best club since 1970 (modern era). But since the start of VFL/AFL Carlton and Essendon are the most successful clubs in the VFL/AFL. Port are the most successful club in the SNAFL.

4. Don't know why someone who supports Carlton like my self and so many others would be jelous. We are happy that we have won as premierships as we have. I would think the jelous ones would be the saints fans etc who have seen very little success and who wish they were like Hawthorn and Carlton.

 

[Future2]

No bias intended but Carlton

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

No bias intended but Carlton

I was talking historicly, not of the last 3 years

 

[greatwhiteshark]

1. I never used the word bush league, someone else did.

2. I have always said that as a club Port Adelaide is very successful, like many clubs around Australia.

3. I was referring my comments to the VFL/AFL because you would have to agree that VFL was always held in a higher regard to SNAFL. You could say your club West Coast was the best club of the 90's or Hawthorn is the best club since 1970 (modern era). But since the start of VFL/AFL Carlton and Essendon are the most successful clubs in the VFL/AFL. Port are the most successful club in the SNAFL.

4. Don't know why someone who supports Carlton like my self and so many others would be jelous. We are happy that we have won as premierships as we have. I would think the jelous ones would be the saints fans etc who have seen very little success and who wish they were like Hawthorn and Carlton.

I don't think anyone has said or has claimed that the VFL was not the strongest of the three big leagues, the VFL was not held in higher regard though in WA and SA up until somewhere in the early to mid 80's. The big league to us in WA was the WAFL. That does not mean we didn't know of all understood about the big league in Victoria and SA but it just meant for us at the time the pinnacle of football was the WAFL to the majority of the fans.

there is a reason why WA - Vic - SA all played State Games against each other every year, because they were the three big leagues. Victoria didn't want to play against Queensland or NSW because they were regarded as second tier. All three were regarded as top tier football. That ultimately the VFL went national and many players went to play in the VFL was testament that the VFL was the biggest of the three leagues. It does not change the status of those leagues at the time though and what they meant to football followers in those eras.

i agree that there should be no jealousy, when I look at Ports history all I have is admiration for what that club has done in its history, just as I do with Carlton, Essendon, West Perth and East Fremantle. I never look and our premierships are better than yours because we were the VFL or we were the SANFL. You are entitled of course to think that but in my mind every year up until that period in the 80's there were 3 top tier premierships played and three winners every year. It was a fantastic part of football history.

 

[nell]

It's a lot easier to win one than two, three or four. Therefore, probably Carlton or Essendon.

 

[Keyza]

GWS... and yes the sky is falling

Agree, they have been given so many concessions it has become a joke.
With their "academy" kids and the rich Riverina zone they were gifted they will be an unstoppable powerhouse that the AFL has created.
Expect them to be in grand finals for the next decade and probably longer.
And no one other than the AFL and a handful of supporters will care.

 

[Bombermania]

Again you compared Port to local footy. I just don't get it. Port have won theirs in Top tier leagues.

No that isn't what I did, I was using the example of clubs in local footy who will often say that they have so many senior flags from across several different comps, considering Port won their 37 senior flags across just two comps, they can say that is how many flags they have..

 

[mightymouse75]

You would say port Adelaide have been the most successful team in aussie rules history. Smoke a pole victoria. Lol

 

[sherb]

Again you compared Port to local footy. I just don't get it. Port have won theirs in Top tier leagues.

I don't believe he was doing that at all.

He was just using local footy as an alternative example of how clubs count their own history across multiple leagues.

 

[sherb]

They do mate and they should, it just should never devalue history of the WAFL and SANFL clubs just because they never got the chance to come along for the ride.

I agree.

I've seen the devaluing argued the other way too though just quietly.

It's a standard tactic when you are trying to argue something is better than something else - lessen the importance/achievement of the "something else".

 

[sverik25]

You would say port Adelaide have been the most successful team in aussie rules history. Smoke a pole victoria. Lol

Your hate for Victoria is bit unhealthy.

 

[Convocation]

Why did you split up VFL and AFL premierships when they're the exact same thing?

That's my argument, in my opinion I believe that although the AFL and VFL is the same competition (just with a different name to recognise a national competition) that when supporters, media and club talk about their premierships they should be saying VFL or AFL i.e. hypothetically if Brisbane won a flag in 1989 and then no others till their 3peat then supporters media and club should say they have won 1 VFL premiership and 3 AFL Premierships. Just a change of language IMO recognises the change of the competition to a national one, and one that doesn't desecrate the premierships won under the VFA (Different Comp), VFL and AFL.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

You would say port Adelaide have been the most successful team in aussie rules history. Smoke a pole victoria. Lol

GWS will get to 17 before FREO get to 1

 

[boncer34]

Essendon, for example, won a flag in 1897 without playing in a grand final and in 1924 by playing a round robin tournament and losing it's final game. I can accept those flags, as they were the rules in place at the time, even they do seem a stupid way to be named premiers. They won the 1993 flag, but were later found guilty of breaching the salary cap that year. The fact that the AFL let them keep the flag is a blight on the game. The record books might show 16, but it should only be 15 and only 13 of those came from grand final wins.

You're of course aware Carlton salary cap cheated in 1993 as well yeah? We were just trying to get on an even playing field for the Grand Final in '93.

 

[Jade]

Essendon, for example, won a flag in 1897 without playing in a grand final and in 1924 by playing a round robin tournament and losing it's final game. I can accept those flags, as they were the rules in place at the time, even they do seem a stupid way to be named premiers. They won the 1993 flag, but were later found guilty of breaching the salary cap that year. The fact that the AFL let them keep the flag is a blight on the game. The record books might show 16, but it should only be 15 and only 13 of those came from grand final wins.

I demand you march down to AFL HQ and get this atrocity rectified immediately.

 

[sherb]

That's my argument, in my opinion I believe that although the AFL and VFL is the same competition (just with a different name to recognise a national competition) that when supporters, media and club talk about their premierships they should be saying VFL or AFL i.e. hypothetically if Brisbane won a flag in 1989 and then no others till their 3peat then supporters media and club should say they have won 1 VFL premiership and 3 AFL Premierships. Just a change of language IMO recognises the change of the competition to a national one, and one that doesn't desecrate the premierships won under the VFA (Different Comp), VFL and AFL.

The problem with that argument, of course, is that you are making the change of competition name (VFL to AFL) the arbitrary point in time for the competition being recognized as "national in nature".

So, Hawthorn won the VFL flag in 1989 and Collingwood won the AFL flag in 1990. Despite the competition structures being identical in each year. Yet somehow a differentiation between the two is required because of a competition name change?

And, flowing from that, you then get the various arguments as to when the competition became truly national. So it all becomes the subject of argument and opinion. Anywhere from 1982, until......(see next para), with varying years inbetween.

Hell, to me the competition won't become "national" until my home state (Tasmania) gets its own standalone side. A couple of FIFO clubs using the place as an ATM doesn't qualify by any means for me.

Just call them AFL flags. It's simpler that way. And no-one gets hurt in the process.........

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

You're of course aware Carlton salary cap cheated in 1993 as well yeah? We were just trying to get on an even playing field for the Grand Final in '93.

Not to justify it, but it was a minor breach in '93. We didn't win anyway. Had we won and subsequently been found guilty, I wouldn't expect to keep the flag.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I demand you march down to AFL HQ and get this atrocity rectified immediately.

What's the point? The AFL made it pretty clear that they don't care, or they would have stripped it.
Nothing wrong with pointing it out at every opportunity.

 

[Jade]

What's the point? The AFL made it pretty clear that they don't care, or they would have stripped it.
Nothing wrong with pointing it out at every opportunity.

Go for your life.

Cup is still in the cabinet at Tullamarine.