Society/Culture Why are young males now more right wing then older males?

[nobbyiscool]

Yeah good points.

Is there any real understanding of issues? We used to have quality shows like 7:30, Sunday, Lateline that would interview Left and Right alike. You'd gain an understanding of issues and viewpoints.

No one has time for that shit now, it's just slogans and memes and bullshit. Facts don't matter. It's the information age but we are less informed than we have been in ages.

To quote Blackadder "to you, the Renaissance was just something that happened to other people"

It's just ignorance

I don't have all the answers - I do know that it's frustratingly asinine when lefties say that we need to create a version of Joe Rogan for progressives. Because most of the people saying it don't understand why/how he gives them something to understand and to believe in - it's nowhere near as simple as advertising someone as the progressive Joe Rogan and having Obama guest appear. And it's also such an intergenerational issue I think it's nigh impossible for one person to have the breadth of personal experience to truly understand it.

Those are parts of the problem. But I don't know what the solution is. I don't know how we make them understand modern masculinity. I don't know how we teach men that we're the solution to problems like domestic violence and the gender pay gap without "conservative voices" shouting at them that they're being demonised for being men (ie. "not all men.")

I consider myself someone that should know - progressive issues and comms are things that, theoretically, I know about - but neither I, nor plenty of people smarter than I, have cracked that nut yet.

 

[smelly cat]

So your 0% of Catholics not accessing gay hookups or pr0n is kinda just projection on your part then?
Hmmn

Nah, most mick priests are practicing homosexuals.
I’d reckon they spend the majority of their day thinking about gay stuff!
You are wrong, let’s see your stats to suggest otherwise?!

Maybe you're right. I'm no authority on this.

You seem to know what you're talking about.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Maybe you're right. I'm no authority on this.

You seem to know what you're talking about.

I’m not interested in your opinion, I do regard however, data.
You claimed that 0% of Catholics had no predilection to homosexual thought.
Can you provide any evidence, data, peer review for me to review?
Your obsequiousness has been noted though…..
Hand over the evidence or be done?!

 

[Blackhawk42]

Legit question, man to man. What problems do young men have and how are we disenfranchised?

I haven't been part of this conversation, but I feel like there are some glaring answers to this.

Overrepresented in suicides.
Overrepresented in workplace deaths and injuries.
Under-represented in family court victories.
Under-represented in university graduate numbers.

And are growing up in a society that tells young women they can achieve anything, while simultaneously telling young men that their masculinity is a toxic trait.


The real world is FAR more nuanced than this, especially on a person to person basis. However, it's still definitely a reality to these young blokes.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

It's a bit weird how old conservative men wearing makeup are telling these young males that masculinity is back.

Not sure why they are falling for it.

 

[sr36]

It's just cyclical rebellion and fashion. Each generation stamps itself by being contrary to the ones that came before. We had the hippy movement of the 70s. It was followed by an entirely different sentiment - the preppiness of the 80s and Gordon Gecko's "greed is good." Which was llowed by grunge, etc...

This time the counter culture rebellion is coming from the right. Joe Rogan, etc have pitched themselves as counter culture rebels of their time and rebellion is attractive to kids.

 

[errant bounce]

It's a bit weird how old conservative men wearing makeup are telling these young males that masculinity is back.

Not sure why they are falling for it.

What's wrong with wearing makeup?

Genuinely?

There have been plenty of men who went to war, played high level football, raised great families who enjoyed cross dressing.

If a bloke wants to wear mascara or use nice products on his face or even a frilly pair of undies to work, I don't give two shits. for a wee while I used to work in a bar with a very nice guy, a very well established lawyer with two nice children and a loving wife, who'd come in for a Coopers yellow every afternoon and chat the house down. we had drag nights on Mondays and it took me a few weeks to realise he was also coming in on the Mondays too.

He wasn't even gay, he just enjoyed it. he was not a picture of health and I imagine he's passed now, but that's a man: a provider, sure of himself, and ultimately happy.

 

[swingdog]

And are growing up in a society that tells young women they can achieve anything, while simultaneously telling young men that their masculinity is a toxic trait.

Not even sure the second half of your sentence needs to be there.

The fact is that the workforce has changed in industrial countries with a growth in jobs that allow women to work equally with men (i.e. more white collar, more services) and the old blue collar jobs are gone.

Those jobs were largely filled by men and have been offshored. There's a caveat that a lot of the textile jobs were predominantly female and were among the first to go but, hey, they were only women's jobs so they don't count. Now all the others have gone or morphed into smaller contractor based jobs (i.e. tradies).

At the same time, at least in Australia, we have had this deification of tradies over the past few decades, both in culture and supportive policy, highlighting a particular kind of masculinity. So, what young men are encouraged to follow is that, even though lots of youn g men, in reality, will still go into white collar and service jobs. They glance across at the tradies in the spotlight and wonder why can't I have that? Must be the girls' fault.

And this is all on top of an economy that doesn't do what it used to do: provide a job, a home and a sense of security. It hasn't done that for 50 years and it won't again any time soon.

 

[Gough]

What's wrong with wearing makeup?

Genuinely?

There have been plenty of men who went to war, played high level football, raised great families who enjoyed cross dressing.

If a bloke wants to wear mascara or use nice products on his face or even a frilly pair of undies to work, I don't give two shits. for a wee while I used to work in a bar with a very nice guy, a very well established lawyer with two nice children and a loving wife, who'd come in for a Coopers yellow every afternoon and chat the house down. we had drag nights on Mondays and it took me a few weeks to realise he was also coming in on the Mondays too.

He wasn't even gay, he just enjoyed it. he was not a picture of health and I imagine he's passed now, but that's a man: a provider, sure of himself, and ultimately happy.

As long as he doesn't he want to read stories at libraries.

 

[faible]

I thought we had kind of sorted that shit out through the 80s and 90s but it’s back and on tren.

Not sure if deliberate, but very funny if you meant it this way

 

[faible]

What's wrong with wearing makeup?

Genuinely?

There have been plenty of men who went to war, played high level football, raised great families who enjoyed cross dressing.

If a bloke wants to wear mascara or use nice products on his face or even a frilly pair of undies to work, I don't give two shits. for a wee while I used to work in a bar with a very nice guy, a very well established lawyer with two nice children and a loving wife, who'd come in for a Coopers yellow every afternoon and chat the house down. we had drag nights on Mondays and it took me a few weeks to realise he was also coming in on the Mondays too.

He wasn't even gay, he just enjoyed it. he was not a picture of health and I imagine he's passed now, but that's a man: a provider, sure of himself, and ultimately happy.

I think it's more the irony of a guy like Trump talking up this hyper-masculine style of masculinity, demonising the queer community, and women, whilst dodging military service and wearing fake tan.

A lot of the MAGA crew are 'in' to this slightly homoerotic hyper-masculinity, but their idols selling it to them are quite the opposite.

 

[the_interloper]

I haven't been part of this conversation, but I feel like there are some glaring answers to this.

Overrepresented in suicides.
Overrepresented in workplace deaths and injuries.
Under-represented in family court victories.
Under-represented in university graduate numbers.

And are growing up in a society that tells young women they can achieve anything, while simultaneously telling young men that their masculinity is a toxic trait.


The real world is FAR more nuanced than this, especially on a person to person basis. However, it's still definitely a reality to these young blokes.

Yes, and this is why judging someone on their demographic is problematic of course.

 

[Deliverance]

This is a really, really good post.

Men are confused. they're told being masculine is a bad thing, but when they open up to a partner they're seen as weak.

Women want men to come approach them in a pub but then will be rude, nasty things when that man isn't exactly what they think they deserve.

I can see why men are drawn to these far right podcast sorts.

No one is telling men that being masculine is a bad thing.

 

[Bigger]

Not sure if deliberate, but very funny if you meant it this way

Cheers.

 

[Gethelred]

Someone's about to try and conflate masculinity and toxic masculinity to counter Deliverance's post.

Isn't everyone excited?

 

[faible]

Someone's about to try and conflate masculinity and toxic masculinity to counter Deliverance's post.

Isn't everyone excited?

This has already been discussed; if you're a young man there's going to be plenty of them that don't understand the nuance between toxic masculinity, masculinity, and men. They'll hear 'toxic masculinity' as 'masculinity is toxic' and you've lost them, they'll go to someone who packages their message in a way that appeals better.

Dismissing it is kind of the point some people keep raising; these people end up gravitating to grifters who explain something in simple terms that package up the message (despite being a shit one) a hell of a lot better.

Jonathon Swan nailed it the other day; the left has lost the culture war. That doesn't mean doubling down on what isn't working or cutting through and hoping doing the exact same thing will result in a different outcome, it means working out how to package up what should be a significantly easier and better message to sell, in a way that actually impacts. That might start by reading / listening to blokes who are telling you that your message is failing.

 

[Gethelred]

This has already been discussed; if you're a young man there's going to be plenty of them that don't understand the nuance between toxic masculinity, masculinity, and men. They'll hear 'toxic masculinity' as 'masculinity is toxic' and you've lost them, they'll go to someone who packages their message in a way that appeals better.

Dismissing it is kind of the point some people keep raising; these people end up gravitating to grifters who explain something in simple terms that package up the message (despite being a shit one) a hell of a lot better.

Jonathon Swan nailed it the other day; the left has lost the culture war. That doesn't mean doubling down on what isn't working or cutting through and hoping doing the exact same thing will result in a different outcome, it means working out how to package up what should be a significantly easier and better message to sell, in a way that actually impacts. That might start by reading / listening to blokes who are telling you that your message is failing.

I'm poking fun at the cyclical nature of debate on this forum, not participating in this thread. Were I to participate in this thread, I'd have to humour some rather silly things: the notion that progressives equals the entirety of the left, which is an assumption embedded in your post; the idea that masculinity is under threat in any way (every single civilisation and generation seems to feel masculinity is under threat); that progressives are the unempathetic ones, etc.

Were I to offer an opinion, what it really comes down to is a combination of marketing and signal boosting more than anything else. It's not even really a more complete or concrete understanding of social media spaces and/or parasocial relationships from the right wing creators over their left wing counterparts; it's almost entirely that the right is filled with marketers and advertisers - professional and semiprofessional promoters - alongside the funds to boost their message to the largest possible audience via perferential treatment by algorithms and the like.

I'm disinclined to add much more than that to the discussion in here, beyond occasionally poking fun at some of its foibles.