Why Carlton have been promising so much yet delivering so little for so long.

[Joao]

Why are people treating it like we lost to Richmond?

To take a glass half full approach, we lost most key stats yet still didn’t lose.

I'm not above sinking the boot in on Carlton for laughs, but I 100% agree with this.

They got absolutely flogged except on the scoreboard. That's a vast improvement from the back 6 over last year. It doesn't guarantee they are better but it is a distinct are of improvement.

Richmond should be devastated not to get the 4 points from that game.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Richmond should be devastated not to get the 4 points from that game.

Nah, not really. I was a bit disappointing last year after getting rolled in the last quarter, but I really rate the Blues this year. We grabbed a share of the points whereas last year we'd have lost that match. And it'll most likely turn out to be a handy couple of premiership points - I don't see us smashing too many teams so it'll be like a win in terms of %.

Anyway, my days of being devastated after a loss are long gone - three recent flags buys us about a decade of grace in that respect. I'll leave the concept of devastation up to those who have no real experience or memory of triumph.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Paying overs for bog average players that's why

 

[gaelictiogar]

Have they really been promising so much?

I'm a Tige and I am disappointed that we couldn't make a huge statistical advantage in inside 50s count and go on and win. Truthfully n Victoria alone the Tigers, Dees, Cats and Pies are all in all likelihood superior.
They are improving but from shocking lows. I think top 8 but Carlton won't be top 4. They are not good enough.

 

[Joao]

Nah, not really. I was a bit disappointing last year after getting rolled in the last quarter, but I really rate the Blues this year. We grabbed a share of the points whereas last year we'd have lost that match. And it'll most likely turn out to be a handy couple of premiership points - I don't see us smashing too many teams so it'll be like a win in terms of %.

Anyway, my days of being devastated after a loss are long gone - three recent flags buys us about a decade of grace in that respect. I'll leave the concept of devastation up to those who have no real experience or memory of triumph.

I'm sure you can find a Richmond fan who was genuinely happy you drew if you look hard enough.

Its round 1 so you can give some grace, but clearly someone at Richmond thinks you're up to your eyeballs in premiership contention and watching you dominate every stat except the score tells me you aren't. That's why I think there would be some concern internally at Richmond.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

I'm sure you can find a Richmond fan who was genuinely happy you drew if you look hard enough.

Its round 1 so you can give some grace, but clearly someone at Richmond thinks you're up to your eyeballs in premiership contention and watching you dominate every stat except the score tells me you aren't. That's why I think there would be some concern internally at Richmond.

Well, I can't force myself to be disappointed if I'm not. We'll be right.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Carlton have stuffed up their list build. They’ve built a team to make finals, but not win Premierships.

Just far too much money spent on players from other clubs who are not great players.


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[WalshistheGOAT]

Carlton have stuffed up their list build. They’ve built a team to make finals, but not win Premierships.

Just far too much money spent on players from other clubs who are not great players.


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Such as? Mcgovern and Martin OOC this year leaving Williams the only overpaid recruit on our books. Nearly our entire core is in the 25-28 range. Plenty of time to fine tune a few pieces and shuffle around some players to get it right.

 

[Ceehook]

List reasons why and how you think 2023 will be the same/different.

Different
as an outsider I rate their last 2 games of last year , they were in those two games till the dying seconds
they had big crowds and where played at finals type intensity , they had made it to that next level , just unfortunately their win/loos left them short of finals

I'm a big believer in Voss , followed closely as a player , reckon he was fixing his mistakes as a coach at the Lions when they didn't renew thinking they could get Paul Roo's

It would appear he has had a good personal reset while at Port and has the experience as a player and coach the arm him well for the gig at the Blues

Tall players who showed promise in the past , Wietering & McKay, are now mature players and ready to deliver on that promise , oh so common for tall layers , you can build a forward line around Harry and similarly a backline around the big W

Cripps , while he has always been a good/great player, I think he has better cattle around him now, and in the opening round he lifted in the last qtr and imposed himself on the game ? 10 disposals
without his effort they don't get a draw , I can see that repeating several more times this year, his efforts will be crucial for the Blues again

They playing group and whole football Dept. will have real belief and it will feed on itself , the only trouble is , like the past few seasons , the competition for spots 6 -12 will be hot and injuries will be cruel to 3 or 4 teams

 

[Area51]

Carlton are a club dominated by a cultural mix of hubris and entitlement fostering impatience and overconfidence. They won't win one until they truly bottom out from a cultural perspective - like an addict that needs to hit rock bottom and have that wake up call that truly transforms them and begins with humility. They have won near a quarter of all the spoons this millenium but somehow still think they are a powerhouse club. To date, they are this century's St. Kilda.

 

[bourbons]

Carlton are a club dominated by a cultural mix of hubris and entitlement fostering impatience and overconfidence. They won't win one until they truly bottom out from a cultural perspective - like an addict that needs to hit rock bottom and have that wake up call that truly transforms them and begins with humility. They have won near a quarter of all the spoons this millenium but somehow still think they are a powerhouse club. To date, they are this century's St. Kilda.

A quarter of all spoons this century kinda feels like bottoming out lol, I think we've had the cultural awakening you speak of.

Unsure what the "still think they are a powerhouse club" comment is backed by?

 

[My Tilly]

Not sure they have been promising for long at all.
Last year was the first time they looked a legitimate finals contender and failed. If they fail to make it again this season, it will be a tremendous waste of talent for guys like Cripps, Saad and Docherty who may only have a few more years of quality footy left in them. Now is the time to be playing in September when you are 28, 29 years of age.

 

[Arr0w]

Not sure they have been promising for long at all.
Last year was the first time they looked a legitimate finals contender and failed. If they fail to make it again this season, it will be a tremendous waste of talent for guys like Cripps, Saad and Docherty who may only have a few more years of quality footy left in them. Now is the time to be playing in September when you are 28, 29 years of age.

A fair post, we should/need to make finals this year, although come the end of this season, we only have 4 players 29+

 

[My Tilly]

A fair post, we should/need to make finals this year, although come the end of this season, we only have 4 players 29+

I'm not worried about your age profile at all but for someone like Cripps, he is right now in his prime and should be playing finals footy. Legacy's are made in September and he's the kind of player who would stand out in a final.
They should have won it last week and have to go for the kill this week against Geelong.

 

[Arr0w]

I'm not worried about your age profile at all but for someone like Cripps, he is right now in his prime and should be playing finals footy. Legacy's are made in September and he's the kind of player who would stand out in a final.
They should have won it last week and have to go for the kill this week against Geelong.

Cats are still a well drilled/experienced team and while a win would be great, there shouldn't be any excuses for not making finals, even if we lose this week

 

[Freomaniac]

Me seen eight Carlton flags i wish! I was born in the mid 80's and 1998 was when i started following the sport.

I was a neutral observer at first, but i became a Carlton fan when they recruited Setanta O hAilpin who comes from my hometown of Cork.

I've watched those eight glorious grand final wins on Youtube, but the only silverware i've actually seen Carlton win was the 2005 Wizard Home Loans Cup and the 2007 NAB Cup. We're both waiting to see our teams win that flag. Our day will come though.

I am Born in 1987.... And you know who won the VFL/AFL flag that year!

Funny thing your an Everton fan, so you were Born in that Period where they won 2 champions of the 1st division/ pre premier league titles in 1984-5 and 1986-7.

Where do you think the other team will be located? I suppose it'll be in the Northern Territory or Canberra.

The old VFL had to transition into a national competition, i have no issues with that. It's not like the NHL which has been ruined by overexpansion imo.

I dont think Northern Territory will get the 20th license. the weather is extreme on both ends (its either too hot or too wet)


As Much as I want a 3rd team in WA, Canberra location wise is good. they Already have Manuka Oval. Away games if you live in Canberra isnt bad. Canberra is 248 kms away from sydney. Canberra is 654 kms away from Melbourne.

I live in Adelaide and that too is 654km away from Melbourne.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Such as? Mcgovern and Martin OOC this year leaving Williams the only overpaid recruit on our books. Nearly our entire core is in the 25-28 range. Plenty of time to fine tune a few pieces and shuffle around some players to get it right.

The side on the weekend had 10 players from other clubs. That obviously doesn’t include Williams, Marchbank, Plowman and Pittonet.

There’s been so much salary cap, list spots and draft picks given for these recruits for so little return, and there just isn’t the depth of elite homegrown talent for a flag tilt. And there’s no money left to bring anyone else of decent quality in over the next 3-4 years as Cripps. Cerra, McKay, Curnow, Williams, Weitering and Walsh are all on long-term deals on $700-$900k per season.

So it has to be done by the current list. But when you look at a side like the Demons:

Rucks way way better than Carlton.
Midfield better.
Defence way better.
Carlton key forwards much better.
Melbourne’s mid-sized and small forwards (Fritsch, Pickett) much better.

Given Demons have better depth, superior wingers I just can’t see Carlton leap-frogging them.

Where does Carlton’s list to have a flag tilt come from?



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[Arr0w]

The side on the weekend had 10 players from other clubs. That obviously doesn’t include Williams, Marchbank, Plowman and Pittonet.

There’s been so much salary cap, list spots and draft picks given for these recruits for so little return, and there just isn’t the depth of elite homegrown talent for a flag tilt. And there’s no money left to bring anyone else of decent quality in over the next 3-4 years as Cripps. Cerra, McKay, Curnow, Williams, Weitering and Walsh are all on long-term deals on $700-$900k per season.

So it has to be done by the current list. But when you look at a side like the Demons:

Rucks way way better than Carlton.
Midfield better.
Defence way better.
Carlton key forwards much better.
Melbourne’s mid-sized and small forwards (Fritsch, Pickett) much better.

Given Demons have better depth, superior wingers I just can’t see Carlton leap-frogging them.

Where does Carlton’s list to have a flag tilt come from?



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Why are we only being compared to the Demons, is it top 2 playing off for a flag?

A side that most thought had butchered their rebuild after making finals then dropping back to 17th and 9th before winning a flag

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The side on the weekend had 10 players from other clubs. That obviously doesn’t include Williams, Marchbank, Plowman and Pittonet.

There’s been so much salary cap, list spots and draft picks given for these recruits for so little return, and there just isn’t the depth of elite homegrown talent for a flag tilt. And there’s no money left to bring anyone else of decent quality in over the next 3-4 years as Cripps. Cerra, McKay, Curnow, Williams, Weitering and Walsh are all on long-term deals on $700-$900k per season.

So it has to be done by the current list. But when you look at a side like the Demons:

Rucks way way better than Carlton.
Midfield better.
Defence way better.
Carlton key forwards much better.
Melbourne’s mid-sized and small forwards (Fritsch, Pickett) much better.

Given Demons have better depth, superior wingers I just can’t see Carlton leap-frogging them.

Where does Carlton’s list to have a flag tilt come from?



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We have heaps of cap space coming out of contract this year. Mcgovern, Martin, Dow, Marchbank, etc are all on decent money and likely to all either depart or take serious paycuts if they choose to stay. Players like Cerra have been widely reported as taking less than what Freo was offering and is closer to the 600k mark from reports. Weitering, Cripps, Mckay, Walsh and Curnow have all been reported to have agreed to taking less to make sure the team can continue to bring in talent.

Doesn't sound too bad considering our Prez and CEO have stated that we'll continue to try and bring in additional talent this off season. Carltons a few pieces away. I'd say we need about another 4-5 quality contributors still. Players like George Hewett or Blake Acres who don't cost a fortune but are upgrades on our remaining spuds.

Add 3-4 decent/quality players next year and get 1 or 2 youngsters in the VFL or AFL team to step up and I think we're absolutely fine for years to come. We don't need any more superstars. Just some reliability and smart decision makers across the field to complement our big guns.

 

[Freomaniac]

Carlton have stuffed up their list build. They’ve built a team to make finals, but not win Premierships.

Just far too much money spent on players from other clubs who are not great players.


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Carlton Stuffed their list build? I disagree.

They Built a team to make finals. Yes they have. their aim is to win one with this current group and they have the players to do it too.

Can they win a flag with this team? Possibly.

Such as? Mcgovern and Martin OOC this year leaving Williams the only overpaid recruit on our books. Nearly our entire core is in the 25-28 range. Plenty of time to fine tune a few pieces and shuffle around some players to get it right.

Well your team spent 9 years outside of the top 8. So if you spend at least 6 seasons developing 18-21 year olds, 6 years later they are in their prime as 24-27 year olds.

Not sure they have been promising for long at all.
Last year was the first time they looked a legitimate finals contender and failed. If they fail to make it again this season, it will be a tremendous waste of talent for guys like Cripps, Saad and Docherty who may only have a few more years of quality footy left in them. Now is the time to be playing in September when you are 28, 29 years of age.

Its not a bad playing squad list wise.

But its not a total failure if they dont get a flag with this group. They are good enough for at least 2-3 years of finals and a finals win or 2 at a minimum.

 

[Fadge]

The side on the weekend had 10 players from other clubs. That obviously doesn’t include Williams, Marchbank, Plowman and Pittonet.

There’s been so much salary cap, list spots and draft picks given for these recruits for so little return, and there just isn’t the depth of elite homegrown talent for a flag tilt. And there’s no money left to bring anyone else of decent quality in over the next 3-4 years as Cripps. Cerra, McKay, Curnow, Williams, Weitering and Walsh are all on long-term deals on $700-$900k per season.

So it has to be done by the current list. But when you look at a side like the Demons:

Rucks way way better than Carlton.
Midfield better.
Defence way better.
Carlton key forwards much better.
Melbourne’s mid-sized and small forwards (Fritsch, Pickett) much better.

Given Demons have better depth, superior wingers I just can’t see Carlton leap-frogging them.

Where does Carlton’s list to have a flag tilt come from?

This exactly, using Melbourne as just one example.

I said during the off-season that Carlton couldn't expect to make inroads on the contenders from 2022 given their inactivity at the trade table. Suspect they were somewhat hamstrung and waiting for cap space to be freed up by McGovern, Martin and possibly TDK at the end of this year?

But Fremantle are possibly the only team from the top 8 whose list appears to have regressed from 2022.

Sydney didn't do a lot at the trade table, but they played in a Grand Final and will have significant growth from the likes of Gulden, Campbell, Warner, Blakey, Rowbottom, McDonald, etc.

Carlton just don't have that extent of growth in them given their top players are winning Brownlows and Coleman Medals yet still not making finals, and they don't have the depth of quality on their list to be banking on the same or more internal growth compared to clubs who were already ahead of them.

Then we add a team like Port who had been contending in previous years, had a terrible start to 2022 before finding their feet, and we saw how important the inclusion of Rioli and Horne-Francis will be to them in addition to the internal growth from the likes of Rozee, Butters and Georgiades.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Because they have had reject coaches.. Teague… now Voss…. Both duds

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Because they have had reject coaches.. Teague… now Voss…. Both duds

Well we had multiple flag winning coaches in Denis Pagan and Mick Malthouse as well, and neither of those appointments worked out.

 

[Triggering Tiger]

Because they have had reject coaches.. Teague… now Voss…. Both duds

Aha and apparently Chris Scott had an awesome resume when you hired him...

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Aha and apparently Chris Scott had an awesome resume when you hired him...

What?? I think you have interpretational issues here.