Why do people think the Pies are so far ahead?

[pie35]

-2010 Minor premiers
-QF defeated Bulldogs by 62 points
-PF defeated Geelong by 41 points
-GF2 defeated St Kilda by 56 points
-young playing list most with more potential improvement and the experience of to GFs under their belts
-senior players to retire/delist eg O'Bree, Lockyer, Fraser, Medhurst etc couldn't get into the best 22.

Apart from the loss to Geelong in round 9, the 3 other losses and two draws were the result of poor goalkicking.

There's no guarantees in footy. Other teams will improve and form strategies to combat the Pies gameplan. Collingwood might have injury problems or struggle with poor goalkicking, the youngsters may not keep improving; but as at the end of the 2010 season, the rest of the top 4 were a long way behind without any obvious upsides to their playing lists.

I don't think anyone's suggesting we'll smash every team by 20 goals each week. It's just very hard to nominate a team that will make up the current gap (plus whatever improvement-if any- the pies gain in 2011) with the lists they currently have.

With the next two drafts being compromised, clubs will find that rebuilds will be harder and take longer and it will be also more difficult for clubs in the premiership window to top up with good quality youngsters.

Collingwood is placed well ahead of any other team going in to 2011.

 

[Slattery_20]

I agree and disagree, Slatts.

If Milne gets a kind bounce and slots that goal, all of a sudden everyone is pumping up St Kilda's tyres, and they are the team to beat with the all conquering gameplan that nullified Collingwood, the recruiting to win the prize and the group to push for back 2 back flags.

Bastard of a game, sometimes.
The point is it didn't.
St Kilda are now mentally carrying the burden of 3 missed opportunities, another year into the legs of Hayes, Milne & Gardiner etc.
I can't see them adding enough to get up and over.

 

[jonbe54]

God I'm heartily sick of the Milne bounce sh1t, the ball bounced away from Johnno first, leaving Milne in the box seat. By the same reasoning IF the ball had of bounced kindly for Johnno Pies could have won by 5 points.

 

[the distributer]

Why?

because we're ranked no1, 1!!that means we're the best, i pitty the fool who thinks we're gunna slide!!.

 

[Ghost of Grinter]

Collingwood are a very professional outfit - onfield - and play as team
100% of the time.

Hawthorn should be able to pose a threat, but their 2008 form has yet
to be seen for a while, but they are well placed in 2011 for sure.

 

[loki04]

]So wrong. So, so wrong.
Franklin had a fantastic 2010, due largely to the amount of work he was putting in up the ground[/B]. Yet it seems he didn't kick 100 goals, so "he didn't work hard".

He won't kick 100 goals in the role he's been, or will be playing.

Was talking about his '09 drop off not '10, he rocked up overweight and unfit for 09, thought he was king ding'a'ling and it would all just happen.

In reference to 2010 i said he was played further up field and Roughead was the main target more often.


He will kick 100 if he a) Puts in 100% and is b) played predominantly from FF which is his best position.


Hawks are most dangerous when they line up with Franklin at FF and Roughead CHF.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Was talking about his '09 drop off not '10, he rocked up overweight and unfit for 09, thought he was king ding'a'ling and it would all just happen.

In reference to 2010 i said he was played further up field and Roughead was the main target more often.


He will kick 100 if he a) Puts in 100% and is b) played predominantly from FF which is his best positiont.


Hawks are most dangerous when they line up with Franklin at FF and Roughead CHF.

He was asked to play heavier in 2009, I thought everyone knew that.
It had nothing to do with him thinking he was king.

 

[PieNSauce]

He was asked to play heavier in 2009, I thought everyone knew that.
It had nothing to do with him thinking he was king.

Speaking from what I saw I did get the impression in '09 that he did show up with a bit of a swagger. It's only an impression and may well be wrong but I don't think I'm the only one who noticed it. Anyway, I really think Hawthorn's main problem is that they don't really have a ruckman and I'm not sure I've seen anything to change that. Hopefully for them they can turn that around because Franklin is wasted further up the ground.

 

[FootyJunkie]

i reckon they will have a flag hangover early last year, will wake up mid-season and still make the finals, but won't make the GF

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

I believe that Melbourne with 2010 under their belts will improve enough to knock off the pies.

Hawthorn have the talent in their list still

Geelong were well beaten in the one match that counts, Ablett & Coach gone, I think they are capable of bouncing back and suprising in 2011

Western Bulldogs the older players gone, dont write off their younger players who will now get more opportunity to play, a very good side.

Fremantle people forget just how injury hit this side was in 2010, their backline spine was depleted yet they still had players to take up the slack. They will be almost impossible to beat in Perth (11 wins) all they have to is finish top 4, a top 2 finish and look out IMHO

There's 5 teams I think are capable of beating Collingwood. Collingwood are fantastic, well drilled team and could go back to back but they are not that far ahead.

 

[Basti28]

Frankly the way some people here are talking you'd think we smashed every team by 20 goals all year long this year. Talk of back to back premierships and dynasties in my eyes are a little too optimistic. God help us I've even seen posts from supporters of other clubs suggesting nobody else is near us.

I'm happy to be educated but I just don't see us that far ahead of the opposition.

I don't.

I don't think they have the best juniors either.

Other teams will eventually match the Collingwood training techniques that give them a pronounced fitness advantage and then the Pies will slip back in to the pack.

They have a 12 to 18 month jump on most of the rest of the compettition for now, and it needs to be remembered that they were actually a ****teenth away from losing the 2010 grand final.

 

[the distributer]

I believe that Melbourne with 2010 under their belts will improve enough to knock off the pies.

Hawthorn have the talent in their list still

Geelong were well beaten in the one match that counts, Ablett & Coach gone, I think they are capable of bouncing back and suprising in 2011

Western Bulldogs the older players gone, dont write off their younger players who will now get more opportunity to play, a very good side.

Fremantle people forget just how injury hit this side was in 2010, their backline spine was depleted yet they still had players to take up the slack. They will be almost impossible to beat in Perth (11 wins) all they have to is finish top 4, a top 2 finish and look out IMHO

There's 5 teams I think are capable of beating Collingwood. Collingwood are fantastic, well drilled team and could go back to back but they are not that far ahead.

mate, we belted the cats the last 2 times we played them, the second last time by 20 odd points but the scoreboard flattered the cats like you wouldnt believe!!, they're no chance of beating us.

 

[doppleganger]

Collingwood will lose nobody from the 2010 premiership side. Plus they have picked up Tarrant and Krak who may force out two premiership players.......potentially Blair and Goldsack. So in essence we will be stronger in 2011 than in 2010.

As has mentioned, previous teams lose important players.ie Hawthorn lost almost a quarter of the team that won them the 08 flag.

Geelong have already lost their premiership captain (Harley) and best player G.Ablett.

Saints, not losing anybody of significance but they have not added anything to their list either.

Dogs, lost some of their champions, but they were already passed it in 2010. Getting a fit Cooney and Higgins should improve them......but enough??

Will any of the up and coming sides be able to take a HUGE leap....Melbourne, Freo, North or Carlton......doubtful.

 

[Ricmel]

-2010 Minor premiers
-QF defeated Bulldogs by 62 points
-PF defeated Geelong by 41 points
-GF2 defeated St Kilda by 56 points
-young playing list most with more potential improvement and the experience of to GFs under their belts

Collingwood is placed well ahead of any other team going in to 2011.

Yes Pies should be early favourites.

But these numbers are very misleading. Bullies limped into finals with injuries, flu outbreaks and a lot of media controversy surrounding them. Adelaide would have beaten them in that first final. They will be much better for having cleaned out some older players in 2011.

The Geelong game Pies were genuinely inpressive.

You conveniently leave out the drawn GF.

The 2nd GF and unfortunately the Saints were spent both physically and mentally. I think they too will be better for the loss of some older players and having to inject new talent.

Then you have an array of teams....Swans, Roos, Hawks, Freo, Demons who will ALL be practicing Pies game plan over summer and have the talent to challenge.

I don't see an empire. I think Pies will be very strong challengers in the next few years but they will not be dominant. Too many hungry up and coming clubs.

 

[Basti28]

We were the youngest premiership side since 1978.

This doesn't mean anything.

The 1978 Hawthorn premiership side did not win another grand final for 5 years (1983) and with only 6 veterans playing from the 1978 grand final.

A million things can happen in 5 years.

4 years ago the reigning wooden spooners won the premiership.

 

[vjknight]

A 23 year old Key Forward who just led the league in goals kicked per game in the regular season, averaged about 5 or 6 more posessions than Jack Riewoldt, Barry Hall etc and was just named the AA CHF in 2010 has peaked? Only on BigFooty would you read something like this.

His best football is most likely ahead of him, as he improved in a lot of areas in 2010 and had a better season in 2010 in some aspects of his game than he did in 2008.

donk - most of your stuff i shake my head at, but on this we agree.

and i wanna be there - watching him take a whole game apart.

 

[jayjones1]

there not everyone will work out there game plan

 

[Madtiger2006]

List wise I can see Collingwood being overtaken by half a dozen teams within 12-18 months. Their game plan is their obvious weapon. They definately don't have the best forward line or back line in the afl. I don't think they have the best midfield either. Once teams work out their game plan, they'll be drop. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't finish top in 2011. If they do they'll drop by 2012

 

[harmesy 37]

Why are they so far ahead?

Where to begin? On field - Pendlebury, Thomas, good recruiting etc...

Off-field - a management team that has its stuff together.

Eddie McGuire knows how to promote the club

Their guernsey is consistently black and white stripes - hence they represent tradition, style and attitude. Other clubs such as Carlton wear white or orange every second week = no tradition, no style, no class.


Carlton is now wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy behind Collingwood.

 

[captain peanut]

God I'm heartily sick of the Milne bounce sh1t, the ball bounced away from Johnno first, leaving Milne in the box seat. By the same reasoning IF the ball had of bounced kindly for Johnno Pies could have won by 5 points.

i'll second that. how about a few other "ifs", like if cloke kicks straight at the end of the 2nd quarter pies are 6 goals up at half time and it's game over, or if thomas and blair kick straight in the 3rd they are 4-5 goals up at 3/4 time and it's game over, if the punch from dawes' set shot late in the last goes through for a behind rather than out of bounds pies still win, etc

the saints were damned lucky to get out of GF1 with a draw. if the ball had bounced for milne it would have been absolute theft of a premiership (assuming the pies didn't then score a goal from the resutling centre bounce). i'm sick of hearing how lucky the pies supposedly were in the draw. 2 of the last 3 times they have played the pies have smashed the saints and they are miles ahead of them heading into 2011

all that the draw, and results like the 2008 GF prove, is that when the better team is a bit off on the day anything can happen if the opposition take their chances when they present

someone like haw may emerge from outside the top 4 to genuinely threaten in 2011. i am very wary of the hawks because they have been to the big day before and they have the most lethal player in the comp in buddy up front. otherwise injuries and complacency are coll's biggest threat

 

[Jeebs]

14? young players with 100+ games experience.
Manic supporter base.
Money.

 

[PieNSauce]

Why are they so far ahead?

Where to begin? On field - Pendlebury, Thomas, good recruiting etc...

Off-field - a management team that has its stuff together.

Eddie McGuire knows how to promote the club

Their guernsey is consistently black and white stripes - hence they represent tradition, style and attitude. Other clubs such as Carlton wear white or orange every second week = no tradition, no style, no class.


Carlton is now wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy behind Collingwood.

lol... I can't disagree with you but let's be fair... being ahead of Carlton is hardly a recommendation!

Sorry but how on gods earth is any collingwood supporter supposed to miss an opportunity like that?

 

[captain peanut]

there not everyone will work out there game plan

did collingwood spring their game plan out of a box on grand final day?

the opposition had ample time to work out a counter to the pies game plan during 2010. the forward press was simply carried out too well to be countered

teams will be working around that game plan all summer and how ot counter it and better it. but who knows how the pies might also tinker with and improve it?

 

[MagpieJoel]

List wise other teams will overtake us? Far out some of you guys are blinded. There are some good teams coming through but it's pure fantasy to suggest that Collingwood has an average list.

Collingwood has a very good spine - something some of these "up and comers" lack. Collingwood has plenty of players that are versatile and cane play in different positions - something these "up and comers" lack.

Richmond has a good midfield developing, and a very good forward. After that, the Tigers are struggling for numbers. That said, they will develop into a reasonable team if they can build a strong second tier and some key backs.

Melbourne has what looks to be a very good midfield, and a pretty good back line developing. However, they still lack key forwards - and the verdict is still out on Watts.

Freo is a contender, but they still need to win a final in Melbourne, and they are an unknown quanitity after being a bolter this year.

North Melbourne, are developing a very reasonable side, but still have a way to go.

The issue is that many of these clubs still need to develop a strong spine, and this often takes longer than 12-18 months. We've had players like Dawes, Brown, McCaffer, Wellingham, Blair, Goldsack, Reid developing over a few years. They took longer than 12-18 months to develop.

Collingwood itself has has been in the top 4 for a number of years now, but didn't quite have list to compete until this year. Saints have had a very reasonable list for a number of years, but it's only been the last two years where they were able to make a GF.

The moral of the story, it's pure speculation to suggest that a team that is outside the 8 could jump up in the next 12-18 months and win a GF, and it is pure speculation to suggest that we will somehow be overtaken by "half a dozen teams" in the next 12-18 months when we have been making the top 4 for a number of years, depsite our large list turnover.

 

[vaughnie]

There are similarities between Hawthorn 2008 and the Pies of 2010. Both sides had a game plan that other teams couldn't quite work out and both were young and fanatical.

I don't think the Pies are that brilliant talent wise but they were a heck of team this year. Coaches will be working overtime during the summer to find away to beat the game plan. If they do then the Pies will lose a lot of their advantage. A bit like the Hawks, their game plan relies on intesity. If they drop off ever so slightly they will come back to the field.

Then there are injuries. Not too many sides win flags without luck on the injury front.

There is no doubt that Collingwood deserves to be flag favourite for next year but going back to back is no gimme and whilst I can't name a side in particular that will be their equal, I wouldn't mind betting that one team will jump up next year and the Pies will slide slightly and there will be at least 2 teams neck & neck come September.