Expansion Why don't Sydney NRL fans go to games?

[Rob]

How would the new W.Sydney AFL team have the advantage over RL in Sydney then?

Because it introduces a 'get to the game' culture to a bunch of people that aren't currently familiar with it.

 

[grayham]

And, relative to this board, if it is simply a 'Sydney Thing' (according to Prof Knowall), then maybe the AFL should not be putting a new club there.

But if it's a 'RL thing' (because the club culture is not strong - according to AranchiX), then the AFL should definitely put a new team there.

I think it is a RL culture rather than a sydney culture. While NRL crowds have never been good throughout history, New codes have come in:
Swans - average 30 K's same as AFL average
Waratahs - average 20K's same as S14 average
Sydney FC - average around 20K, same as Victory.

All these supporters were already in Sydney, and probably not regularly going to RL games.

 

[nescri]

Because it introduces a 'get to the game' culture to a bunch of people that aren't currently familiar with it.

Did the Swans achieve that in their 20 year history with Sydney?
Sure they get good crowds, but tv audience is fairly average, and their cultural impact on Sydney appears minimal. AFL is a niche sport in Sydney, and the Swans are a niche team.

What will a new club bring? wont it just steal those 40% of Swans fans that come from W.Syd?
AFL has had time to grow in Sydney, the new W.S team will add a little, not alot, to A.Rules in Sydney.

 

[Rob]

Did the Swans achieve that in their 20 year history with Sydney?

For sure, they drew decent crowds quite quickly. Alas, after about 6 or 7 years they turned into the worst team in the last 50 years, winning 4 straight spoons and their crowds dwindled. Since then, their crowds have been, by far, the biggest in Sydney for a domestic sporting team.
So as far as the 'get to the game' culture goes, the Swans have been successful. I'm not sure how you could say otherwise.

Sure they get good crowds, but tv audience is fairly average, and their cultural impact on Sydney appears minimal. AFL is a niche sport in Sydney, and the Swans are a niche team.

Niche, as in most popular in Sydney.
And AFL isn't a sport, it's a league.

What will a new club bring? wont it just steal those 40% of Swans fans that come from W.Syd?

Unlikely.

AFL has had time to grow in Sydney, the new W.S team will add a little, not alot, to A.Rules in Sydney.

Rugby troll wish board.

 

[jackmac7]

Did the Swans achieve that in their 20 year history with Sydney?
Sure they get good crowds, but tv audience is fairly average, and their cultural impact on Sydney appears minimal. AFL is a niche sport in Sydney, and the Swans are a niche team.

What will a new club bring? wont it just steal those 40% of Swans fans that come from W.Syd?
AFL has had time to grow in Sydney, the new W.S team will add a little, not alot, to A.Rules in Sydney.

EXPOSURE, EXPOSURE, EXPOSURE.

AFL played in NSW and QLD every week will make a big difference opposed to once a fortnight. On top of a huge Rivalry.

 

[nescri]

Exposure's not the challenge to AFLs growth, every Australian knows what the game is. When you talk to somebody who dosnt like A.Rules, what's the reason they give to you?

Their answer is not about 'exposure' is it?

 

[RUNVS]

Exposure's not the challenge to AFLs growth, every Australian knows what the game is. When you talk to somebody who dosnt like A.Rules, what's the reason they give to you?

In my experiance alot of the people who like to criticise Aussie Rules just havent had enough exposure to it. They no nothing about the game and yet they insult it at every opportunity. Getting people in NSW and QLD to see more AFL games is a important step in removing some of their prejudices towards the sport.

 

[ArachniX]

In my experiance alot of the people who like to criticise Aussie Rules just havent had enough exposure to it. They no nothing about the game and yet they insult it at every opportunity. Getting people in NSW and QLD to see more AFL games is a important step in removing some of their prejudices towards the sport.

i think its the same with any sport and why people won't follow it.
There is also the emotional attachment to a sport. If you don't support a side then you dont quite get into the highs and lows of a code.
I think the need for exposure isn't just for the Western Sydney side, it is for the whole of the AFL. Every other club AFL club in Australia gets exposure to the market.
An example is the Melbourne Storm. Where they could gain help is for the whole of NRL to get some more exposure here in Melbourne. People have seen Rugby League, they know the game but the exposure is lacking. They don't play state of origin down here any more. Its hard to know players, like players, hate players, hate other clubs etc. Its hard to build an emotional attachment to a club when you never get to see the game on TV. Or the players etc.
Im watching the Rabbitohs right now but its 12:45am. I dont have Foxtel. Its the first Rabbitohs game I have seen all year. I don't know any of the Wests Tigers players for instance. More exposure would definitely benefit Rugby league here as a Western Sydney side will do for the AFL.

 

[Aucklander]

okay then im sorry, your right

but can i make a couple of point of saying;

that melbourne victory get double the amount of ppl to thier games than sydney fc

union tests always sell out

vfl games have higher attendance than nswrl games

the melbourne tigers get roughly the same amount of ppl coming to thier games as the kings, this is despite the facts that a. sydney has a bigger population b. sydney has a bigger venue

All well and good, but Sydney doesn't proclaim to be the "Sporting Capital of Australia" Melbourne OTOH does.

 

[finders]

I think it is a RL culture rather than a sydney culture. While NRL crowds have never been good throughout history, New codes have come in:
Swans - average 30 K's same as AFL average
Waratahs - average 20K's same as S14 average
Sydney FC - average around 20K, same as Victory.

All these supporters were already in Sydney, and probably not regularly going to RL games.

So where are the 30,000 RL fans in Melboure which has a few hundred Thousand ex pat NSW people and Kiwis + Islanders??

 

[finders]

All well and good, but Sydney doesn't proclaim to be the "Sporting Capital of Australia" Melbourne OTOH does.

Melbourne people go to Quality sports!

 

[finders]

Really disappointing crowds this week in Sydney for the NRL. This is their heritage round backing up off the "team of the century" announcement.

The fact is, the NRL doesnt have a "go to the game" culture. Whatever way everyones bias tries to spin it, thats the bottom line.

Here are the figures from last weekend.Showing the massive gap.

AFL 313,000 Ave 39,100 Biggest crowd 51,000 smallest 24,000 (sellout Geelong)

NRL 132,000 Ave 18,700 Biggest 28,000 smallest 14,000 SCG History Game 19,122

 

[Hoops]

The biggest factor in the discrepancies of crowd sizes for AFL in Melbourne compared to NRL in Sydney, basically boils down to support. Sure their are other issues like transport, weather, culture etc. play a small part but that cannot explain the fact that last year the AFL crowds in Melbourne was 3 times that of the NRL in Sydney. You would have to say that AFL in Melbourne would easily have twice the support than that of NRL in Sydney.

 

[genghiskhan]

In my experiance alot of the people who like to criticise Aussie Rules just havent had enough exposure to it. They no nothing about the game and yet they insult it at every opportunity. Getting people in NSW and QLD to see more AFL games is a important step in removing some of their prejudices towards the sport.

The exposure argument is too simplistic. You can saturate people with exposure and they still look the other way. For example, cricket has had massive exposure in summer time, but only a percentage of Australians ever choose to pay any attention to cricket. Definitely not as many Australians love cricket as Indians do, or as many who love a code of football.

The story of a club, the community connections, the name, the colours etc are far more important than trying to show it to as many people as possible.

 

[Eel_storm]

the storm get great numbers, 10K+

 

[Aucklander]

Melbourne people go to Quality sports!

I know. I sit with a few of them at the Storm games.

 

[nescri]

Sydney ppl just dont care as much about sports as melbourne ppl

The only two cities which represent all major Australian sporting Leagues are Brisbane and Sydney.

Melbourne is the sports capital of the world?. No!. It's not even the sports capital of Australia.

 

[walhawk]

Not an argument you are going to win Nescri.

Do you mean Super 14 that Melbourne is missing? Hardly a major league. Combined crowds accross 4 Australian markets is less than Collingwood's season crowds.

Outside of UK & US, Melbourne has the biggest sports crowds in the world. Horse Racing, Soccer, AFL. Huge crowds at everything beside RL. (Conversly, Sydney has small crowds for most sports except major events & AFL)

No city in the world has more marquee events.

And if you were right that Sydney (or Brisbane) is the sports capital of Australia, then it brings us back to the original question.

 

[Bouvet_Island]

One other thing that needs to be appreciated is that Melbourne football clubs have been around since the beginning of football. The Melbourne and Geelong football clubs are nearly 50 years older than the oldest Rugby League clubs. And all the current Melbourne clubs and the Sydney Swans are the same clubs as they have been since their original formation. Fitzroy is the only club that has 'disappeared' but it still exists as a merged entity of the Brisbane Lions.

I'm not disputing the fact, but I don't see how it is relevant to crowd figures.

A passionate Melbourne/Geelong fan doesn't attend matches simply because their team has been around for 100+ years.
Neither does a passionate <<insert RL team>> fan not attend their matches because they think "I'll wait until my team has 50 more years of history, then I'll go to the games".

 

[Speck]

The only two cities which represent all major Australian sporting Leagues are Brisbane and Sydney.

Melbourne is the sports capital of the world?. No!. It's not even the sports capital of Australia.

You just dug yourself into a big hole.

Melbourne is defiantly the sporting capital of Australia, try arguing against it as there are many, many members who can prove you wrong on BF.

 

[Rob]

Not an argument you are going to win Nescri.

That's never stopped him before.

 

[cos789]

In my experience a lot of the people who like to criticise Aussie Rules just havent had enough exposure to it. They know nothing about the game and yet they insult it at every opportunity. Getting people in NSW and QLD to see more AFL games is a important step in removing some of their prejudices towards the sport.

Exactly the same in my experience .They haven't seen any game live .
Hardly seen anything of a game on TV yet they are an expert .
And you'll find they don't even attend their own sports .
At the other end professional sportsmen have a great regard
for other codes .

.

 

[ArachniX]

I'm not disputing the fact, but I don't see how it is relevant to crowd figures.

A passionate Melbourne/Geelong fan doesn't attend matches simply because their team has been around for 100+ years.
Neither does a passionate <<insert RL team>> fan not attend their matches because they think "I'll wait until my team has 50 more years of history, then I'll go to the games".

It is relevant as I was pointing out the difference in culture between the two cities. Without necessarily saying anything about Sydney I was specifically referring to the uniqueness of Melbourne's sporting scene and Australian rules football compared with Sydney. They are two different cities, two different sports, two different histories. Everyone always compares Sydney NRL crowds to Melbourne's AFL crowds. I was explaining why you can't really make a direct comparison due to the differences in the history of the leagues and the developed culture.

If I ask you why do Collingwood & Essendon have the most supporters? You can't answer that without mentioning anything about the history of both sides or the culture of the game. Why did Fitzroy and South Melbourne struggle in the end? The culture and the history of the clubs will explain that.

If you read the entire post rather than pick out the first paragraph, my point is made quite clearly.

 

[greenhat]

Canberra is the sporting capital of Australia

- Higher sports participation rate than anywhere else.
- Is considered a 'heartland' for all 3 footy codes. All of them are commonly referred to as 'footy'.
- Is a small city yet has serious local leagues of pretty much any sport you can think of, ranging from Gridiron to European Handball to Ice Hockey.
- Often produces stars of all 3 footy codes, despite having a tiny population. (Recent examples are James Hird, George Gregan, Ricky Stuart)
- has the AIS so half the country's Olympians live in Canberra
- Produces lots of stars of other sports too, eg Mark Webber (Australia's only Formula 1 driver) and Lauren Jackson (Worlds best basketballer)
Jackie Chan went to high school in Canberra too, if you consider his Kung Fu a sport.

Plus its the actual capital of Australia, so its easy to add 'sporting' to the title

Whats Melbourne got compared to that?

The AFL? I dare anyone to watch a few ACTAFL games, complete with suburban grounds, fierce suburban pride, and the occasional bit of old fashioned biffo, and tell me its not more entertaining than Melbournes sanitised comp. In fact, the ACTAFL's even got a fully professional team that relocated away from Melbourne's crappy comp - the Swans (reserves).

The Formula 1?
Canberra's got the Rally of Canberra. I've been to both and let me tell you getting covered in dirt watching blokes from around the world crash cars sideways into trees is much more fun than getting your eardrums split in half watching some glorified go-carts drive laps.

Melbourne's got nothing but a couple of overhyped events that sucker in some crowds, all of which you can watch on TV from Canberra anyway.
Its nothing compared to Canberra, city of sport.

 

[Gman]

Canberra is the sporting capital of Australia

- Higher sports participation rate than anywhere else.
- Is considered a 'heartland' for all 3 footy codes. All of them are commonly referred to as 'footy'.
- Is a small city yet has serious local leagues of pretty much any sport you can think of, ranging from Gridiron to European Handball to Ice Hockey.
- Often produces stars of all 3 footy codes, despite having a tiny population. (Recent examples are James Hird, George Gregan, Ricky Stuart)
- has the AIS so half the country's Olympians live in Canberra
- Produces lots of stars of other sports too, eg Mark Webber (Australia's only Formula 1 driver) and Lauren Jackson (Worlds best basketballer)
Jackie Chan went to high school in Canberra too, if you consider his Kung Fu a sport.

Plus its the actual capital of Australia, so its easy to add 'sporting' to the title

Whats Melbourne got compared to that?

The AFL? I dare anyone to watch a few ACTAFL games, complete with suburban grounds, fierce suburban pride, and the occasional bit of old fashioned biffo, and tell me its not more entertaining than Melbournes sanitised comp. In fact, the ACTAFL's even got a fully professional team that relocated away from Melbourne's crappy comp - the Swans (reserves).

The Formula 1?
Canberra's got the Rally of Canberra. I've been to both and let me tell you getting covered in dirt watching blokes from around the world crash cars sideways into trees is much more fun than getting your eardrums split in half watching some glorified go-carts drive laps.

Melbourne's got nothing but a couple of overhyped events that sucker in some crowds, all of which you can watch on TV from Canberra anyway.
Its nothing compared to Canberra, city of sport.

This is too funny...good read for a laugh

Go Canberra, sporting capital of the world