Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread rules update:

From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.

 

[barreness]

Islam will soon control all Europe but it will take about 20 more years so we might as well just be happy and spend our money and enjoy ourselves, I personally went to Spain a few years ago and drove all along the coast great trip, I felt good

Unless you have kids (especially daughters) then you should be a lot more scared for their futures

You enjoyed the thousand year old Islamic architecture? some pretty buildings

 

[ferball]

The 'missed word' makes a lot more sense in the context of what he was saying than the version without the missed words.

He's speaking about the civilian toll on children in Gaza from the ongoing slaughter there, then suddenly he calls for more massacres?

Yeah, makes no sense.

Engage brain.

Yeah good luck getting that one to engage its brain, MM's using a bullshit beat up by people looking for an excuse to engage in bigotry.

 

[Crankyhawk]

If you want to be consistent in the argument you also have to rage against the crusaders and Christianity, they have a long history of rape, oppression, and pillage themselves

I think the leftist argument is that religion is a general part of human culture(constantly evolving) and not the deciding influence in a persons worth

I thought the leftist argument was religion is a personal opinion that should inform one’s individual actions and choices but not use to impose choices and behaviour on others.

 

[Crankyhawk]

IKR. And the inhabitants of Gaza probably resent the fact that their oppressors are Jewish.
And the Jew's probably resent that the Gazan's are Muslims.

I'd suggest, though i can't verify ( without trying ) , that those who discriminate the most against any given religions, probably have their own religion , which tells them they are right. One true god and all that.

I’m hard core atheist who devalues all religions to “keep it to yourself and don’t push it on others and all religions deserve to be open to ridicule for inconsistency and magical thinking”

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Smelt like bullshit but it actually checks out. Talk about ”Chickens for KFC”.

You don’t have to worry too much though, LGBTQ communities still have protections under the law, and the chances of Muslims controlling State or Federal legislatures to enforce Sharia Law are ZERO.

‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags

Many liberals celebrated when Hamtramck, Michigan, elected a Muslim-majority council in 2015 but a vote to exclude LGBTQ+ flags from city property has soured relations

www.theguardian.com

Their "City" with Muslim government is this one.

Hamtramck, Michigan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No its not Michigan. No its not Detroit. No its not Dearborn.
It would be like Sydney suburb Lakemba having its own city council.
Wonder how many rainbow flags are flying in Lakemba.

Lakemba, New South Wales - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jazny]

My thoughts on Islam's future domination other the West

Michigan has the largest congregation of Muslims in the USA and leftists mounted a campaign to "inclusively" get them into politics and elections. Once they were elected the first thing Muslims did was take down all the pride flags from govt buildings. The second thing was to ban all LBGTQ books from schools. The lefties were outraged and felt "betrayed"

The best way to deal with Islam while they are less than 20 % of the population is give them all the power in the world. Make them prime minister and every government position and let them do whatever they want. Give people a taste of sharia law while there is still time to do something about it.

If we wait until they are 30 % the west is over

Muslims are like boomers in the 80s. Just buy a house, do nothing for 30 years, and you will rule the world. But can they wait 30 years? Muslims blowing their load early is our only hope

2024 is a year of elections in Britain and Europe. Will sharia law take control now or wait until 2050 when it cannot be stopped?

This is extremely paranoid. Not all Muslims are the same and think alike. Some are more socially conservative than others, and there are more liberal factions too. If all that happens was removing flags from city property in a region in Michigan, it's not really a big worry. They didn't just remove LGBTQ flags, the council "prohibits the display of flags with ethnic, racist and political views" on city property. This kind of legislation is happening elsewhere in America too:

Florida GOP lawmakers seek to ban rainbow flags in schools, saying they're bad for students

Florida Republicans advanced a bill Wednesday that would ban teachers from wearing a rainbow flag lapel pin in public schools and universities.

apnews.com

Australia has a 3% muslim population, UK about the same. You know what country has a 18% population? Israel. They are hardly about to institute sharia law lol. And why wouldn't strict muslim communities living in the west become more moderate over time?

 

[mcnulty]

Their "City" with Muslim government is this one.

Hamtramck, Michigan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No its not Michigan. No its not Detroit. No its not Dearborn.
It would be like Sydney suburb Lakemba having its own city council.
Wonder how many rainbow flags are flying in Lakemba.

Lakemba, New South Wales - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I acknowledged in my post that there is no chance of any of this becoming Statewide. There will never be anything even remotely approaching Sharia Law as overriding law anywhere in the West.

What is more of a concern (and should at least be acknowledged), is the possibility of a coalition with the reactionary Right. Strange bedfellows here.

How Andrew Tate and the Far Right Made Common Cause with Islamists

Western far-right personalities are carving out a new form of conservatism, characterized by an admiring attitude to Islam. Growing unity between conservative Muslims and Christians, and between disaffected young men in both the West and the Middle East, may yet have significant effects on U.S...

newlinesmag.com

 

[Jazny]

OK that's enough.

Wikipedia reports the 2021 census found 6.5% of the UK and Wales population is Muslim.

Bye now.

My bad, it was 6.5%. Sharia law incoming to the UK real soon I guess

 

[Jazny]

Yeah...but a lot of that sort of thing on facebook is totally fake too.

I mean it's possible it happened, but it does sound like an "and then everybody clapped" kind of story.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My bad, it was 6.5%. Sharia law incoming to the UK real soon I guess

It can't be , i went into a Mosque in the UK , and i'm sure that everyone except me was a Muslim.

 

[mcnulty]

Yeah...but a lot of that sort of thing on facebook is totally fake too.

Yeah the "I've heard there are lots of similar stories from various places” line from the guy is a bit of a tell.

In any event, bit of an indictment on the state of the modern media that the BBC are reporting on Facebook posts. Pure clickbait.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

This is extremely paranoid. Not all Muslims are the same and think alike. Some are more socially conservative than others, and there are more liberal factions too. If all that happens was removing flags from city property in a region in Michigan, it's not really a big worry. They didn't just remove LGBTQ flags, the council "prohibits the display of flags with ethnic, racist and political views" on city property. This kind of legislation is happening elsewhere in America too:

Florida GOP lawmakers seek to ban rainbow flags in schools, saying they're bad for students

Florida Republicans advanced a bill Wednesday that would ban teachers from wearing a rainbow flag lapel pin in public schools and universities.

apnews.com

Australia has a 3% muslim population, UK about the same. You know what country has a 18% population? Israel. They are hardly about to institute sharia law lol. And why wouldn't strict muslim communities living in the west become more moderate over time?

In what way would they become moderate? Moderate is assumed to mean tolerant; acknowledging others can live as they please.

Non-Muslims are often puzzled by the lack of a moderate Muslim voice standing up against hateful rhetoric from the pulpits of radical preachers. True Muslims believe in Allah, and Mohammed as his prophet, and the Koran as a compilation of the very words of Allah as told to Mohammed. The words of Allah, from the Koran, quoted by these preachers, can't be argued with.

A Muslim in name only may be more relaxed in his attitude to others. But if he believes in Allah, and the Koran, there is no moderation to be found. Casting off the bits they find repugnant is not possible.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In what way would they become moderate? Moderate is assumed to mean tolerant; acknowledging others can live as they please.

Non-Muslims are often puzzled by the lack of a moderate Muslim voice standing up against hateful rhetoric from the pulpits of radical preachers. True Muslims believe in Allah, and Mohammed as his prophet, and the Koran as a compilation of the very words of Allah as told to Mohammed. The words of Allah, from the Koran, quoted by these preachers, can't be argued with.

A Muslim in name only may be more relaxed in his attitude to others. But if he believes in Allah, and the Koran, there is no moderation to be found. Casting off the bits they find repugnant is not possible.

Maybe the punishments can vary.
I believe that most Catholics survived confession.

 

[Jazny]

In what way would they become moderate? Moderate is assumed to mean tolerant; acknowledging others can live as they please.

Non-Muslims are often puzzled by the lack of a moderate Muslim voice standing up against hateful rhetoric from the pulpits of radical preachers. True Muslims believe in Allah, and Mohammed as his prophet, and the Koran as a compilation of the very words of Allah as told to Mohammed. The words of Allah, from the Koran, quoted by these preachers, can't be argued with.

A Muslim in name only may be more relaxed in his attitude to others. But if he believes in Allah, and the Koran, there is no moderation to be found. Casting off the bits they find repugnant is not possible.

Things change and religions change. Christianity is different now than 500 years ago. Different muslim countries have more relaxed attitudes to women's rights than others, and more tolerant of other religions, and have different beliefs about Islam. Muslims aren't all the same and I don't think we should assume they will stay the same over time.

 

[Muddiemoose]

In what way would they become moderate? Moderate is assumed to mean tolerant; acknowledging others can live as they please.

Non-Christian’s are often puzzled by the lack of a moderate Christian voice standing up against hateful rhetoric from the pulpits of radical preachers. True Christian’s believe in Jesus, and the writers of the bible as his prophets and the Bibe as a compilation of the very words of God as told to the Prophets. The words of God, from the Bible, quoted by these preachers, can't be argued with.

A Christian in name only may be more relaxed in his attitude to others. But if he believes in God, and the Bibe, there is no moderation to be found. Casting off the bits they find repugnant is not possible.

EFA


I mean it’s pretty easy to change a few words and it’s the same description of any religion

 

[SaintsSeptember]

EFA


I mean it’s pretty easy to change a few words and it’s the same description of any religion

But its not true of Christianity in general.
Yes you can have hard core Christianity that clings to every word of the old testament.
But its not true of Christianity in general.
There are heaps and heaps of moderate Christians, and the church has adapted accordingly.

That why i made the comment about Catholic confession.

Father, i have sinned , i committed adultery.
50 hail marys.

 

[Muddiemoose]

But its not true of Christianity in general.
Yes you can have hard core Christianity that clings to every word of the old testament.
But its not true of Christianity in general.
There are heaps and heaps of moderate Christians, and the church has adapted accordingly.

That why i made the comment about Catholic confession.

Father, i have sinned , i committed adultery.
50 hail marys.

In my experience most modern Muslims are the same and range quite dramatically
I know Muslim females who don’t wear head coverings, males with no beard and tattoos who eat Bacon

Ive also known who are very committed to the point that they adhere to praying multiple times a day and if the numbers are looked at relative each other the comparisons between Muslims and Christians very similar

Let’s be honest when people are referring to Muslims in a negative light they are actually referring to “brown” people

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In my experience most modern Muslims are the same and range quite dramatically
I know Muslim females who don’t wear head coverings, males with no beard and tattoos who eat Bacon

Ive also known who are very committed to the point that they adhere to praying multiple times a day and if the numbers are looked at relative each other the comparisons between Muslims and Christians very similar

Let’s be honest when people are referring to Muslims in a negative light they are actually referring to “brown” people

Yeah i've know some very moderate Muslims.
But is that moderation accepted by their clerics?

The original post was talking about a "moderate Muslim voice".

 

[Muddiemoose]

Yeah i've know some very moderate Muslims.
But is that moderation accepted by their clerics?

The original post was talking about a "moderate Muslim voice".

It would depend on the cleric just it would depend on the Pastor/Priest and denomination in a Christian or Catholic sense

The same could be said of any religion it’s just that for some reason Muslims are held to a different standard & scrutinised differently for some reason

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It would depend on the cleric just it would depend on the Pastor/Priest and denomination in a Christian or Catholic sense

The same could be said of any religion it’s just that for some reason Muslims are held to a different standard & scrutinised differently for some reason

Does it depend on the Pastor/Priest?

https://www.reuters.com/world/vatican-approves-blessings-same-sex-couples-under-certain-conditions-2023-12-18/

 

[Malifice]

?.......... What? Nobody who has been to London in the last 20 Years could read this s**t. UK has 20 % Muslims, in the maior cities like London it's 70 %

Wut?

Islam is the second-largest religion in the United Kingdom, with results from the 2011 Census giving the population as 4.4% of the total UK population

Islam in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia.

There were 1,318,755 Muslims reported in the 2021 census in the Greater London area. In the 2021 census Office for National Statistics, the proportion of Muslims in London had risen to 15% of the population

Islam in London - Wikipedia

Yeah, nah.

Stop spreading lies scumbag. Even the most hardcore lefty who has visited London since 2000 wouldn't go along with such lies

See ya.

 

[faible]

See ya.

Chances he'll sook about being discriminated against and that this is why white people are being marginalised?

 

[Malifice]

Chances he'll sook about being discriminated against and that this is why white people are being marginalised?

He's openly stated who exactly he thinks are the 'evil Cabal' whom are responsible for the 'marginalization of white people'.

It's the same 'cabal' Hitler didnt like very much. And for the same reason.

Dude somehow managed to be both Islamophobic and antisemitic all in the same post.

Goes without saying, 'don't do that around here'.

 

[Malifice]

Non-Muslims are often puzzled by the lack of a moderate Muslim voice standing up against hateful rhetoric from the pulpits of radical preachers.

You're aware that Muslims are the main victims of the hateful rhetoric right?

ISIS killed and persecuted more Muslims than non Muslims, and by a factor of thousands to 1.

A Muslim in name only may be more relaxed in his attitude to others. But if he believes in Allah, and the Koran, there is no moderation to be found. Casting off the bits they find repugnant is not possible.

That's self evidently not true.

Off the top of my head, Usman Khawaja believes in Allah and the Koran. As does Adam Saad. As does Waleed Ally (I use those blokes because they're famous Aussie Muslims)

Are you saying they're not moderate? Should I fear them for some reason? Have they not assimilated to Australia just fine?

 

[Jazny]

ISIS killed and persecuted more Muslims than non Muslims, and by a factor of thousands to 1.

They just murdered 100 people (presumably mostly Muslims) in a terror attack in Iran two weeks ago.